SAS Hero Betrayed by British Legal System over War Trophy

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posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 08:54 AM
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reply to post by TKDRL
 


Very true, then let’s call it unintentional, his mates packed up all his gear including the hand gun, the cargo was sent to sterling lines then onto his home where it remained unopened where the gun lay for a few years. During that time he is sent on operations and ends up in a coma forgets about the gun then one day there is a police raid on his home looking for some other guys bullets and they find his unopened cargo including his unopened gun.




posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 08:54 AM
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Originally posted by cavtrooper7
The bigger the dog the harder they are hunting you.This is the same for all vets.


Indeed, we had a case in my country where a Dutch Special Forces hero was more or less hanged publicly for more or less bogus offences.


From March, 2006, to August, 2006, Kroon, then a lieutenant, was dispatched to the Afghan province of Uruzgan. His job, as platoon commander of the Dutch special forces unit "Viper", was to reconnoiter and to map the area so that Task Force Uruzgan could be established. In this period he distinguished himself by exceptional deeds during six extremely dangerous actions which broke out during ISAF patrols by "Viper" and a platoon of the Australian Special Air Service Regiment. One of these actions was Operation Chitag (July 13–14, 2006). During the patrol, Kroon encountered a group of Taliban fighters. In the ensuing battle, while the Dutch troops were heavily outnumbered, Kroon was forced to request air support on his own position by a Lockheed AC-130 gunship; he ordered his men to take cover and with his Forward Air Controller (FAC) guided the American air attack. At such close quarters, however, it was a harrowing experience for Kroon and his FAC. Later, his platoon was forced to take cover in an Afghan house, whence they repulsed repeated attacks during the night. No men fell under Kroon's command, but the resulting Taliban losses were severe.[5] After the dawn, Kroon and his men emerged to retrieve intelligence from the dead Talibani to establish their identity. Kroon disciplined his men after noticing their agitation and inclination toward unprofessional behaviour (he later said that he understood the behaviour of his men but, as their leader, felt himself responsible for ensuring that the platoon acted professionally); he then ordered the wounded to be treated and the enemy dead to be covered. Kroon's superior officers later commended his leadership and ability to correct a battle-hardened group of commandoes.[6]



In January 2010, Kroon and his girlfriend (aged 34) were named in a drugs case in The Netherlands.[9] According to publications he was suspected of possession of drugs and of violating the gun law. A police investigation, which was sustained after two interrogations, was said to be focusing on the café named café Vinny's that he was running in the town of Den Bosch.[10][11] The patrons were suspected of using coc aine in the café.[12] The Koninklijke Marechaussee (Dutch military police) and the Public Prosecutor confirmed the suspicion.[13][14][15] The investigations in the case started in October 2009 and in December 2009, four other suspects had been arrested.[16][17] Kroon and his lawyer Geert-Jan Knoops denied all accusations and announced their own investigation.[18][19][20][21][22] According to Kroon, he is the victim of defamation. He points out that he received several anonymous mails with threats, one of them saying: "From hero to zero".


en.wikipedia.org...



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 08:57 AM
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reply to post by WoodSpirit
 


In the UK the sentence for possession of a firearm is usually a mandatory 5 years so you could say on first glance he got away lightly. However the judge did have the option of a 18 month suspended sentence, which basically means be a good boy for 18 months and no jail. Given his circumstances this could have been very easily handed down, it’s the same kind of punishment we give to drug dealers. I have been reading today that his local politicians are trying to have his conviction overturned. Lets hope it works.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:02 AM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


Yes I hope it will be overturned, the guy obviously doesn't deserve this. What you explained is what I mean with probation.

Do people really go to jail for 5 years in the UK just for possession of a firearm, even if they didn't use it for a crime?



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:06 AM
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reply to post by clintdelicious
 


Even if he had the brain injury he still had the gun and ammunition in his home before that which was not legal.


I hear what you're saying and you make a good point. I think it's part of what is wrong with society today though too. Discretion used to mean something and the law wasn't SO blind that mitigating circumstances couldn't be considered in weight of punishment. Now, it seems it's 0 tolerance on everything and off with their heads.


It's no better here... We have school children suspended or expelled for things like key chain novelty type "pocket knives" or "chains" that are also parts of key chains. I have a whole directory of examples I had to collect for a class presentation. it's just insane. This man sounds to have given all he had to give in service of his Nation. Prison? For a screw up and absent minded professor moment......it just seems so over-kill minded and strictly, 100% punitive. Almost viciously so, given the overall circumstances?



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:09 AM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


Don't get me wrong, I do feel bad for the guy. His story does sound plausible to me. It seems like the judge kinda used this guy to send a message to military people, no tolerance seems to be the way societies are headed.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 11:32 AM
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reply to post by OtherSideOfTheCoin
 


I have read the article, but I don't think that the judge had the option to give him a suspended sentence. Possession of a firearm in the UK always carries a custodial sentence and usually is something like 3-5 years minimum so it seems like he was let of very lightly.

I feel bad for the guy, but despite the brain injury and even if he did actually forget about having the weapon he did break the law by bringing it over with him and keeping it at his house. If he did intend to have it deactivated and hung as a war trophy on his base then he should never have had it in his possession while it was still a functioning weapon. A lot of weapons are lost by the military every year in the UK and pistols are one of the most common types to be lost and unfortunately there are those who take military equipment away for either themselves or to sell on the street. It is a very very small % of military personnel who do this, but I have read articles going back a while that talk about this problem and how the missing weapons are rarely recovered which means that in cases like this they want to come down hard on the guy to dissuade others from doing the same. Many soldiers suffering PTSD also seem to feel the need to be armed or have access to a weapon as well even once they are back safely at home as well as those who may want a souvenir so I wouldn't be surprised if this is more common.

He will most likely serve only half of his sentence which would be about 9 months as well so he did get off very lightly, but the other part of the punishment is that his career is over and that is very sad. He was not ignorant of what he was doing though and knew full well that it as illegal to possess the functioning weapon so brain injury or not he still broke the law and knew that what he was doing was not legal. The brain injury probably meant that he forgot about it and thus lead to it being found, but I also think it is possible that he actually knew it was there all along.

Now this is just speculation, but if he is telling the truth about how he wanted to have it deactivated and hung as a war trophy in his base then he would not have taken it home himself and instead would have had to speak with his superiors about the proper way to bring the weapon back home legally, probably this would mean keeping it in the armies possession at all times. I'm sure that in this case it would be deactivated and hung up fairly quickly or kept in an armoury until the process was complete as you can't just give a pistol to a soldier to hang on to when it's a fully functioning weapon. I think most likely he wanted to keep it for himself, maybe he intended to have it deactivated in the future who knows and after the accident he forgot that he had it, but I have to stay I find his story a bit hard to believe as he kept the firearms in his possession at all time. If the army found him to be carrying it then he probably would have lost his job anyway for gross misconduct as a soldier bringing a weapon back like that is against the armies strict regulations,. It is possible that due to his rank and experience with the SAS that he was able to get the weapon home without it being noticed as I know soldiers coming home often are searched for contraband including drugs and ammunition.

I know like me most people will feel very bad for this guy, but he made a very silly mistake and he knew what he was doing so unfortunately he has to pay the price for it. Our laws don't take into account details like those in the story. Our gun laws more or less are very rigid and state that if you are found with an illegal firearm you will go to prison. 18 months is a very light sentence for this offence so I think that the judge was as lenient as he could have been. There is no way that anyone can receive a suspended sentence for possession or a n illegal firearm, it always will be a custodial sentence.



posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 09:27 AM
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hey guys,

If anyone is intersted i was reading today in the Times that apparently parliment are going to be discusing this case.



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 10:31 AM
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He has now been freed. Suspended Sentence.



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 10:59 AM
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reply to post by EnigmaAgent
 


Do you have a link for that because I was reading yesterday that his case was to be heard by a appeal judge.



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 11:41 AM
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I have seen this story a lot recently and it mentions the firearm was a "war trophy" presented to him by Iraqis.
However, on a news item I saw on the BBC last week, they mentioned that he had the firearm AND 300 rounds of ammunition.

That, right there, seems to dispel the story that this was simply a trophy weapon for display. If it was, then there would be no need for the ammunition for it. Therefore, he broke the law, plain and simple and his career choice, rank or media puff pieces about him being a "hero" are just not relevant. He was in possession of an illegal firearm AND ammunition, end of story and should receive the same sentencing any other citizen of the UK would be subject to in such a case.



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 11:52 AM
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reply to post by Britguy
 


edit on 29-11-2012 by OtherSideOfTheCoin because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 11:54 AM
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Appeal upheld he's being released.

www.telegraph.co.uk...

I'm not commenting on if I think it's the right or wrong decision but there you have it.



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 12:31 PM
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reply to post by khimbar
 


I for one think this is a good move, nice to see justice being upheld.

Thanks for the info.



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 12:51 PM
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Relieved about news of the appeal. This guy was no criminal, a public servant and the dumb judge tried to slam him. Doctors even agreed with the guy.

Glad the legal system there made the right decision because the initial verdict was a very poor example and message to give to anyone else over there serving and putting their life on the line for the interests of their country and neighbors.



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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reply to post by BASSPLYR
 


it was a court martial that sent him to prison , and we all know that these aristocrat officers of the british army
don't give a damn about the cannon fodder .

the queen is the head of the british army and i think she should step in and give this man a royal pardon .



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 01:49 PM
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I agree the man DESERVES a royal pardon for all the work he's done for the last 17 years in the SAS serving his country and people. Seems like the dicks that court martial him were self serving and couldn't see the forrest for the trees.

Sadly this sort of thing has happened in the US too. Sometimes one wonders what needs to be changed about officers in the military. Because their poor leadership is becoming a problem. To me it seems like officers come from some entitled "boys club" thats more concerned about promotion and making rank than getting a decent job done. Oh and blaming others for when their stupid plans don't work out.

The man deserves a pardon. Geeze for all his done for the UK he deserves to be Knighted.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 02:14 AM
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justice for DANNY NIGHTINGALE our sas hero is released

what ever happened to great britain ,if you are not from
britain you get treated like s##t

away with the uk and bring back great britain

i did rant on a bit more than this but deleted as i read
before i pressed reply as i came across as racist

so twice in one month the british government backs their own WOW

MAYBE TPTB are losing the fight to divide us
edit on 30/11/2012 by maryhinge because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 02:18 AM
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Originally posted by BASSPLYR
I agree the man DESERVES a royal pardon for all the work he's done for the last 17 years in the SAS serving his country and people. Seems like the dicks that court martial him were self serving and couldn't see the forrest for the trees.

Sadly this sort of thing has happened in the US too. Sometimes one wonders what needs to be changed about officers in the military. Because their poor leadership is becoming a problem. To me it seems like officers come from some entitled "boys club" thats more concerned about promotion and making rank than getting a decent job done. Oh and blaming others for when their stupid plans don't work out.

The man deserves a pardon. Geeze for all his done for the UK he deserves to be Knighted.

well said i totally AGREE
and you have only one star make that two now



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 02:26 AM
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I must say that my issue was always that I did not feel that the punishment fitted the crime, it is unavoidable that Sargent Nightingale did commit a crime. With that said I think that by his appeal being upheld justice has prevailed






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