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Are there enough jobs to replace welfare?

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posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:20 AM

Originally posted by Jeremiah65
Let's talk about the current debate on philosophical approaches to economical prosperity.

I did not support either candidate because I think both of them are wrong.

Cutting taxes to the "job creators" has not stimulated job growth. What stimulates job growth is when people re-invest their money into their businesses. They create jobs, those people buy things, more companies hire to keep up with demand...etc...etc...etc.

Tax cuts (which I personally love but I see the paradox here) generally end up in personal bank accounts, not in business expansion or investment. People get tax credits when they actually invest in business so...the twist to all of this is if you place a tax on profit, the business owner/investor is faced with a decision. Put their money into use/circulation, or it will be taxed. This is the other side of the coin that some people do not realize. When people have to make the choice to use their money or lose it in taxes, they will generally "use it"...which in the long run will eventually come back to them in increased production.

It is an odd circumstance. I fully understand you cannot tax the rich enough to solve the financial problems facing the country. I also understand that they do hold the keys to turning things over, but in a different way. IF the tax breaks were "creating jobs" like we are often told, that would be great...but that is not what is happening. Wall Street numbers have basically returned to the levels pre-recession...corporations and investors are making just as much money as they ever did. There is, however, no incentive for them to "use" that money creating jobs

So, they are hoarding it rather than re-investing it. If they want tax breaks, invest your money in business expansion...what we have been trying is not working for the average person.

It is a conundrum for sure.

I agree. Particularly the part about the tax system. It used to be geared toward discouraging hoarding of wealth.
Employers either used the excess profit to hire more workers or raise wages to have a greater share.
Rather than pay the excess to the government in taxes.
This in turn spurred growth.

Now the government could in theory take everybody off the unemployment rolls and give them a paying job.
Create another huge bureaucracy like the TSA. That alone took quite a bit off the 8%ers.
I can remember several relatives telling me that I should try to get a government job with security, high salary and
the best benefits around.
But, if that were the holy grail then we'd all be working for the government.

It's a conundrum alright. It's too entangled between the government and business to ever unwind it back to
a more balanced system the way it is but would wreck the economy if the government cut the jobs.
Which they will, sooner or later, as tax revenues continue to fall.

posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:40 AM

Start with labor laws and change the requirement for corporations to make absurd profits and we'll be on our way to healthy America.


In the end, jobs are not the problem. What is the problem is the price of goods and services compared to the minimum wage you are guaranteed to receive.

This generation is bloody lazy.

The reason we don't have enough jobs and why some jobs do not pay enough money to allow some people to make ends because we have State and Federal Jobs and entire click of these self anointed Budget Black Holes draining State and Federal Funds to the extent that it makes EVERYTHING more expensive.

Ok. Any reason why people think we don't have the answer? Everyone has a different take on why there is not eenough jobs to go around. Well, here's mine.

- Every aspect of the commerical industry has grown to be much more efficient over the years, thus requiring less people even while growing.

- Our entire monetary system has been worked over for years to include benefits to people that have more kids. Those kids learn that there are benefits to be had from having more kids, so they have more kids.

So, there are too many people to fill jobs that just aren't there. The bad part about this is if this trend continues, there SHOULD be less jobs in the future. Well, less real jobs. There will still be an endless amount of gas station jobs, walmart shelf stocker jobs and garbage men.

posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:59 AM
I have not seen such a separation of incomes in my past. People are either making high wages or they are making an unlivable wage. Raising the minimum wage doesn't work because it also raises the prices of necessary things, as in food production and distribution. It would be better to go back to having more jobs that produce appliances and products we need on an everyday basis instead of importing them. Sure, our pollution index will go up a little but at the same time we won't be shipping things half way around the world. This shipping is causing the introduction of invasive species also, this is unwise because there is no natural predators to some of these insects.

We have made a real mess of things, the people allowing these policies should be removed from their high paying jobs because they did not adequately assess the risk that was involved. I have to go and make spaghetti now with Chinese garlic. Garlic from China, what the hell.

posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 11:54 AM

Originally posted by Wertdagf
reply to post by liejunkie01

Someday the last computer will be built.... Someday all products will be so good at what they do there wont be a need to buy another one.

The death of capitalism is a certainty.

Are you joking? They can do that now. They don't because they can keep selling stuff to you at regular intervals. Why would a company EVER build something to last?

The death of the next wave of socialist leaders is a certainty in my opinion.

posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 12:21 PM
Why is so much emphasis and funds placed on education of our young and research?

The reason is to build upon known or discovered knowledge, to create even more technological and scientific advancement for progress and evolution, and at the same time - NEW JOBS.

USA is no longer living in the 50s with 50s type of industries. Manufacturing Tshirts and jeans is beneath american capabilities and wages saved the truly quality brand names that america is known for.

Today is the 21st century. What was once a bicycle manufacturing plant of the 50s is now building advance jets. What was once a facility to produce panadols is now producing anti-HIV drugs. I can go on and on, but many will get my drift - higher skilled jobs for higher trained workers to produce higher quality products for all to earn higher wages.

American innovation and tech has evolve americans up the food chain, so long as it protects its tech and science and not freely given away as greedy and stupid corporations had done by moving manufacturing to slave foreign states.

And to help the current job situation, do notice that many local american companies had outsourced part of their manufacturing or services overseas. They do so because they want to cut cost and focus upon their core parts of industry.

Laid off workers or more enterprising workers should seize those opportunities instead. Set up small companies locally to handle those operations for the bigger companies. Going offsource is no longer as cheap as before, or even reliable in the first place.

Thus if those entreprenuers can find creative ways to meet the demands of offshoring by big companies, many jobs can be created, and need not even flout any existing labour laws such as hours, wages, overtime, or insurances.

It should not be termed as part-time jobs, for part time jobs often robbed workers of their honest labour rights. It should focus upon win win solutions to big companies who want to branch out certain portions of their manufacturing or services, at fair rates.

posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 12:36 PM

Originally posted by jaxnmarko
reply to post by liejunkie01

I don't know, but I caught a bit of 60 Minutes on CBS tonight and they said manufacturers had 3 million jobs waiting to be filled but the schools are putting out such idiots these days that can't spell, write, do math, focus, learn..... that the jobs are going unfilled. That is all I heard... nothing about the pay but the people making this statement and the scenes behind them made it seem fairly technical yet doable.... and from many of the young people I have talked too.... I'm scared for their future and ours. Our public schools are letting people out of school that are in no way prepared for a real job and real life. Not to say everyone, of course! But nothing compared to my schooling. We import engineers for a reason!

Let me tell you something, I am forty have 25 years plus invested in the workforce (experience), I can learn and do ANYTHING for any job anywhere, there is not manufacturing jobs at least not here in Florida, I have been looking in all fields. I have NO physical restrictions either. But that isn't even the point, in Florida there is not any manufacturing jobs at all. In fact the major manufacturing here (BEER AND GYPSUM) are laying people off. I call fail on CBS number one because it's not just kids out there leaving school that they have to pick from, they have upwards of ten million aged 30/40+ people also trying to get jobs. They are full of HS.

ETA: This is someone who passed the Engineering portion of the ASVAB tests higher than anybody ever has at the point when I took the test (which it probably has been surpassed by someone else by now) But the point is that the ARMY begged me to be a mother said nursing or no car so afraid I'd have no car I told the ARMY That I had to respectfully decline the offer to be an engineer (Upwards of 6 digit salary and having me start at a level of officer). Boy my mother really screwed my life up. Sorry went OT for that last line. Point is the employer has access to that information, so why When I have tried to get manufacturing jobs up in NJ I would never get calls? IDK, but they do have a pool of people they just won't even consider.

edit on 12-11-2012 by ldyserenity because: edit for clarity

edit on 12-11-2012 by ldyserenity because: Add

posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 12:37 PM
reply to post by AwakeinNM

Can you base that opinion on any facts or information? Could you maybe even elaborate even slightly? socialists are going to die?

i dont want to assume your ignorant, but i do.
edit on 12-11-2012 by Wertdagf because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 01:15 PM
I for one find it ridiculous they state

they said manufacturers had 3 million jobs waiting to be filled but the schools are putting out such idiots these days that can't spell, write, do math, focus, learn.....

But those very same idiots calling our children idiots, will hire the illegal immigrant first. Someone who couldn't get into our country the right way (either weren't smart enough, or had a criminal record) And who isn't even smart enough to learn how to speak our language, but they call our children idiots? Give me an effing break, they're full of HS....they don't want to hire Americans because they want to cheat the system...that's the God's honest truth of the matter!

posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 01:27 PM
Most people on welfare HAVE JOBS already. #ty jobs that pay minimum wage aren't enough to feed a person's family.

posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 01:47 PM

Originally posted by BaneOfQuo
This generation is bloody lazy.

That is the crux of the problem, apathy and lethargy are through the roof.

Why work when I can have stuff giving to me on someone else's dime.

The number of people looking to take advantage of the system is growing.


Naw, it's because who wants to be a slave. No one in their right mind wants to be one.

posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 04:41 PM
I highly doubt there is as well as the outlook is looking dim. Plus you have the margin of people that can probably never work that are disabled. I'd be more concerned about stopping corporate welfare, though the corporate part does feed off of it as well(see food stamps/ EBT dealings.... Chase). With that we're stuck in a bind.
edit on 12-11-2012 by dreamingawake because: more

posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 04:48 PM
S & F...First of all. There are multiple ways to correct the system I believe but thats for another day. Like you said with the Fed's control over our socialist agenda they cannot afford to stop printing monopoly money! I cannot believe it has gone this far anyways. If we would stop giving tax breaks to the wealthy and overseas production with cheap labor and poor quality products and start giving them to corporations in our own country we could really start putting this country of ours back together again and put hardworking individuals that want to work a chance at advancement. But its the other way around sadly enough, and there is not enough jobs for us so we have to resort to getting assistance when a mother of 3 is working two; thirty hour a week jobs cause she didnt have time for the overly expensive college tuition and she doesnt get benifits from her jobs cause there only part time. There should be more school and job work programs for our youth. The school pays for your bed and schooling but you in turn work for it.

posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:09 PM
reply to post by liejunkie01

I was just using engineers as an example and as I said I only caught a bit of the program on 60 Minutes.
There are a lot of reasons, of course, for the problems we have. The problem isn't Welfare, its the abuse of Welfare. There are truly needy people. And there are families that haven't had a job in generations. Lazy? Apathy? No skills or education? Lotsa reasons. I was only saying this particular segment had a guy saying he couldn't find qualified people. If you are curious about the type of work, google the program and find out. here, there are a few pages of help wanted ads. Not needing a job, I haven't checked them all out, and its currently off season, but when it was on in August and September, there were 4-6 pages. People don't want to move for work it seems. Take a chance. They want the work to come to them, so I guess they aren't desperate enough or too poor, but if you are single and have a thumb, get to where you need to be to work. Go Greyhound. Something! Some places are depressed so people can't expect work to suddenly arrive for thousands of people. The Dust Bowl made people move because they had no choice. Move or die. We created Welfare. We have been TOO LAX in letting just about everyone get on the roles though! Minimum wage not being a living wage.... that's a problem. Raising pay? Hard to say. Too high of pay relative to price of goods made is what sent labor overseas to some extent. Some laborers made a LOT of money at times! Unions have gotten too powerful at times and forced themselves into near extinction for lack of jobs and too much in pension costs so its cheaper to make things elsewhere. Staying competitive isn't easy in a world economy. CEO pay that is insane doesn't help on the management end of the spectrum.... its a myriad of problems we are facing.

posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 11:46 PM
reply to post by WEALLNEED2KNOW

I agree.

It made me think of something the gf said.

Look at the divorce rate amongst the American population. Young couples are quick to get married and have kids. Then one day they wake up and decide it isn't working anymore. Now the 25 year old mother of one or two kids is thrust out on her own with no job, because the husband was the worker, and does not have a way to feed or house the kids. Just another welfare statistic.

The divorce rate is crazy. I can't link it, but isn't it like 50 percent.

Anyways just another thought to throw out there.
edit on 12-11-2012 by liejunkie01 because: (no reason given)

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 03:35 AM

Originally posted by dreamingawake
I highly doubt there is as well as the outlook is looking dim. Plus you have the margin of people that can probably never work that are disabled. I'd be more concerned about stopping corporate welfare, though the corporate part does feed off of it as well(see food stamps/ EBT dealings.... Chase). With that we're stuck in a bind.
edit on 12-11-2012 by dreamingawake because: more

That is another thing that ticks me off.

Yeah the welfare system is expensive but,

We just gave wallstreet multiple blank checks that would have funded all kinds of projects, not just greedy bankers wallets to keep the economy "afloat".

We should have let their poor business standards sink them and used the taarp money to put real working men and women to work.

Just my opinion of course.
edit on 13-11-2012 by liejunkie01 because: phone spelling

posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 04:26 AM
reply to post by liejunkie01

The larger problem is of course that this particular economy is predicated on our continually buying and selling things we do not need. Apple is the richest company in the world, at least recently it was in terms of its capital value on the market. Half of Apple's revenue comes from selling telephones. Phones people already have. Why buy an iphone 5 when you already have a 4? I mean I know why people do it But it is ultimately an unreasonable thing to do. Such economic illogic is not sustainable for a dozen reasons. So your answer is no. There are not enough good jobs. The world would need to change drastically so we'd be employed in different senses for this thing to ever work out.

posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 01:24 PM
There aren't a finite number of jobs out there. Otherwise we wouldn't have any economic growth as the population grows. Economic health and Economic Growth create jobs. If everyone was willing to work for a free-market paycheck (hard to do with government mandates on minimum wages, etc) then the unemployment rate would be much lower - and businesses would be producing much more.

posted on Nov, 15 2012 @ 07:08 PM
The problem is that the global economy hasn't adjusted for advancing technology and changing population dynamics. A country as large as the US with a standard of living to match can't sustain a manufacturing economy with the technology available now, let alone what will be available in the future. The production line that was staffed by 100 men in the 1940s is now completely automated. There's a massive global labour surplus coming up very fast as service and manufacturing jobs are phased out.

posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 03:04 AM
reply to post by ShadeWolf

Add to the list tens of thousands of hostess workers.

My local bread store is closing its doors because they were a hostess vendor.

So not only is it the 18,000 workers. It is hundreds if not thousands of more jobs from retailers.

I have to say that I was a little shocked at this news.

posted on Nov, 18 2012 @ 02:55 PM
Most people who are on welfare do work.

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