Strong Suggestions of Voter Fraud speaks to need of reform!

reply to post by cry93

There are many many maps online for this election, Florida and the counties within. They tend to show many different things....depending on what data set is being used, who is building it and what the end result is.

I'd really ask you to link your examples though. You're making a running habit of comments that should have a source to see....but don't? Now the map you reference isn't something I'm asking about purely for the note of failed sourcing again. It's that I am honestly curious as to which map it is and what that one is showing by specifics.

@ Horus

Indeed... One or two polling places with odd discrepancies are one thing. When it's down the list and the rule...not the exception..either the process didn't work or the process itself is broken. Even if miracles happened and night turned to day for Romney winning Florida...absolutely nothing would change and the election is truly over. For the local and state stuff as well as integrity of the process over all? Err.. Yeah. this does matter, eh?

Originally posted by links234
So I read through each reply, one by one. I see no evidence of voter fraud. Just Florida being confusing for confusions sake.

That state is so f-d up when it comes to elections it's not even funny. Standing in line for seven hours to cast a vote and the governor sees no problem with it. Mind-boggling.

I lived in Missouri most of my life and had to stand in long lines. Are you going to complain about Missouri too? St. Louis was once the 3rd largest city in the US and still has a fairly large population. You live in a populated area you stand in lines to vote.

doesnt matter , presidents are selected not elected.




bohemian grove

reply to post by elouina


I wonder what that "times overvoted" means.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


I'm not disputing your post I am just trying to understand the logistics. I don't believe the numbers add up. I'm sure the St Lucie county election supervisor doesn't want to be found having election counts wrong and deny it all.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


Yes. Until such time that election day is regarded as a national holiday or it's held on a weekend then no one should be forced to wait for 6-7 hours to cast their vote.

I live in a large city, I waited 15 minutes to vote. Voter turnout was 52% this year, that's pathetic and we should all be ashamed.

reply to post by links234


You do have a point there. I never had to wait more than an hour or so.

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus

Err... I should have broken replies apart.. I was agreeing with ya

Perhaps it's too early and too soon to even look at this yet. I may have been very very deeply mistaken that the period (however short it may be) before the next election's candidates are chosen by media and politicians well enough to have become the public topic when reform is mentioned would be the time to look at change.

Of course the problem is...if not now, when? If not by this, where even the officials don't quite get it........and lawyers ARE lining up to file suits over this for local and state outcomes..then by what? If this specific system is one some say is 100% perfect in function and fairness.....what of the other several dozen ways and methods used by other states and local areas for the same election and the same numbers?

Can we really have this again for 2016? Do we want to? My biggest fear isn't that Dems will steal 2016...it's that both sides appear to have had an honest go at it now and both have seen success to some degree. 2016, if no reform comes, may just toss the fair concept right out the window from square one and become an honest contest of who's cheaters and hackers are better than the other guys?

reply to post by ThirdEyeofHorus


You are failing to understand the SIMPLE MATH involved.

Look at this image:



See where it says TOTAL VOTES?

Now look at this image:



See where is says CARDS CAST?

CARDS CAST is double the TOTAL VOTES (or very nearly double).

As the comments made by Florida voters have already shown, each ballot was made up of two cards. There may have been some ballot cards not read correctly, or misfeeds, etc.

What is strange is why they would make a percentage of CARDS CAST versus REGISTERED VOTERS. It would make far more sense to compare VOTES CAST to CARDS CAST, to make sure they fall in line, or to compare VOTES CAST to REGISTERED VOTERS. One has to wonder if this election board didn't purposely throw out a confusing comparison to feed RW rumor mills.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer

See where is says CARDS CAST?

CARDS CAST is double the TOTAL VOTES (or very nearly double).

The fact that, right there, ever needs to be said as a type of explanation to make sense of United States election results...as presented BY the officials who ran the election....speaks more to the need for clear reform on the way we handle our national elections going forward than anything I could or have said.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000



Is it really difficult to go to Fox, CNN, MSNBC, ABC, etc to find an electoral map? If there are any differences I guarantee you it isn't by many votes. Heck, even Google or look for the AP info.

I will provide you with sensible answers. However, I will not provide you the luxury of being lazy and not doing any research for yourself.

Just look it up anywhere. Take your pick. I truly do not get you here. This isn't difficult.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


There is no need for reform in this vein. Wow.

In Florida the cards cast are twice the ballot (read votes) because their ballot had 2 pages (read sides) to it. Some states had as many as 12 pages (read cards).

Some people do not bother to flip through and complete the entire ballot. Some may not even want to do so. Then again you also have people who write in presidential candidates or decide to not cast a vote there at all but do want to vote local/state/initiatives and that's handled in a different manner. So votes cast for president versus cards cast total will not always equal 100% participation.

But the instance that you are arguing is roughly 150 votes.

reply to post by Blackmarketeer


Simple question then:
Are votes for every position on the same card or do they get one for each race?
That would be my explanation offhand.

NY Times

elections.nytimes.com...

Politico

www.politico.com...#/President/2012/FL

CNN

www.cnn.com...

St Lucie County is the small blue county just above the larger blue counties on the right side of the page. Click on it.

reply to post by cry93

Cry, you're welcome to take your trolling elsewhere. (My signature link works to define that, so we need not spend messages on that too) I've now said several times that this is not about the outcome of the election for candidate or..long term...even which party. I don't *CARE* that Obama won from this as a partial bit of what made that happen, since absolutely nothing on outcome in the State of Florida changes that. It never can. That's for the best, really. The US can't take another 2000 type election fight.

The idea our election process is without need of reform is so patently absurd on the face of it, I'm almost speechless. For the record....This isn't my first dance watching Florida go sideways. 2000, 2004, 2008 and now 2012 ALL showed problems. Some favored Republicans. Some favored Democrats. This time? Well...the suggestion sure seems to be Democrats. This is the same system that favored Republicans in 2 of those past 4 elections. 50% fail for right. 50% fail for left. Neither side is shy when it's their side on the failing end. We really need to do this a 5th time?

I don't suggest it was any fairer THEN...than it is NOW. So, either we're debating different things, in which case, again, election politics wasn't the point..however HARD you're working to make it the point..or you literally don't have personal memory to consider this has happened several times now, across previous elections.

Reform of the election system isn't a partisan point until someone makes it one. As long as people keep making basic reform and improvement to our system a partisan brick wall on ALL levels, on ALL topics....then nothing gets done either way and...well....We'll hit bottom eventually. Sadly...I guess...we'll all be screaming about who didn't pack the rope right to the final splat at the bottom too.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Now I'm trolling you? It is clear to most everyone reading here what's going on.

And you now have the map from 3 different sources. Knock yourself out attempting to find something that just doesn't exist.

You win. I should have followed my golden rule concerning never arguing with an .....

reply to post by cry93

I'd normally leave this...as it rarely ever warrants a follow-up at this point, but you said one thing there that I think DOES bear a reply. This, for the record..is my last reply to you on the thread. (anything from me beyond this has no constructive place to go, IMO) So reply if you'd like..I won't be. Not for this sub-thread of conversation.

However, you use the word argue. I can't agree more with the description and when ALL the B.S. is stripped from everything, all the way to the cores of the matter here, it sums it up 100%.

You came to argue. I started a thread to inform if possible, debate as always and perhaps...if proven wrong by equally supported fact and logic, learn something about a situation I just saw red by reading. Now my posting history clearly shows I *DO* change my position based on debate, from time to time. It's rare, but it happens. In this case, I'd give a lot to see no absolute mathematical proof of problems, so the latter was no small factor in making this thread.

You have summed it up well though, and I say that with no rancor. Argue vs. Debate. Yes. Indeed. We each have our styles and purposes for joining one thread over another...or staying on one thread over another.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


Wrabbit, I haven't had a chance to research the info in the OP, so I'm not sure about this info specifically.

Apropos of Florida voter fraud, one thing I AM sure about is a very short clip that aired on Fox News just days before the election:

In this clip, a man (from Louisiana or Mississippi?) was complaining that the Obama Administration had diverted the LARGEST share of BP Oil Spill compensation money to Florida.

Despite the fact that Florida had suffered the least damage from the oil spill -- compared to LA or MS. The Florida Panhandle was hit, but nothing like LA or MS.

The implication being that the Obama camp had BOUGHT the Florida vote with BP Oil Spill money.

I don't have the specifics because I only saw the clip once & it was very short. It was NOT a campaign ad, it was a news report.

I have searched the net for the article (including the Fox site) and cannot find it. It's been scrubbed.

Of course, I have NO doubt that our mainstream media is controlled (including Fox) and this just confirms it.

They only tell us what they want us to know.

Which is why they want to put even greater controls on the net -- the only place we can get the rest of the story.

Once that happens, we are truly lost. Only the techno-geeks who inhabit an Alternate Net, have any chance of getting real unfiltered news.

This link is to a website that has about 50 articles that describe everything that happened and petitions to sign to ask for a recount. Apparently, if you look at it all, Romney won.

obamavoterfraud.blogspot.com...

reply to post by Blackmarketeer

CARDS CAST is double the TOTAL VOTES (or very nearly double).

NO! You look again. When was the last time 4815 times TWO equaled 6550? The difference between the two numbers is 3080. 4815 -3080 is still 1735. Is that a minor difference?

Again, Soros provided counting machines from Spain which he owns. Soros is a multi billionaire promoting Obama. How much more biased can it be? Soros needs his azz kicked out of this country for his economic and political warfare and manipulation.