Christianity and Abortion

Originally posted by Trustfund
I'm pro-choice (early stage of pregnancy), but a 8.5 month year old fetus is clearly alive. So killing an 8.5 month year old baby as long as he is in womb fluid is moral?

edit on 11-11-2012 by Trustfund because: (no reason given)

I don't know of anyone in the world who would call that moral. In fact, even those who work in the field wouldn't have any part in an abortion of that nature. Most medically assisted abortions are limited to the first trimester (3 months) after which, very few will even discuss it. There are extreme cases where the life of the mother may be in jeaopardy and they suggest taking the baby and trying to help it survive, but they don't try to give abortions.

The agencies and doctors that provide abortions are not what the crazed right wing portray them as. They don't "butcher babies" or pull out fully formed fetuses or any of the things that are portrayed by that group of people.

reply to post by Annee


You are ever-welcome Mrs. Annee


The "Christian Left" is seldom heard from either here or anywhere else. I feel this is because they follow what Christ says and does and don't stand on the street corner preaching at the top of their voice. They also have very different understandings and interpretations than their extreme-right breathren have.

I feel it's time they be heard if for no other purpose than to keep people from turning away from God. They need to know the whole story (or at least more of the story) and see that not all "Christians" are like the group that is causing people to leave the church and leave God because of their very un-Godlike and un-Christlike stances.

I value my relationship with God and want that relationship to be available to others. If the extremist fundamentalist evangelicals had been the only people to turn to in my youth, I would never have known God and never would have had that relationship. I don't want others to suffer that fate.

Originally posted by MichiganSwampBuck
Jeremiah 1:5

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
"Before I formed you in the womb I knew you, And before you were born I consecrated you; I have appointed you a prophet to the nations."

That's the one that I have been hearing lately.

For less biblical folks, it's in the preamble of the U.S Constitution as well in the use of the term "posterity", or so I've heard.

www.merriam-webster.com...

Definition of POSTERITY
1
: the offspring of one progenitor to the furthest generation
2
: all future generations

edit on 11-11-2012 by MichiganSwampBuck because: (no reason given)

Originally posted by MichiganSwampBuck


Yeah I thought the same thing, but I've heard the spin on this verse and abortion used in Christian dogma.

First, I'm happy that you followed up and stated that it wasn't the verse, but its use in Dogma that you were referring to.

That was one of the examples that the article cited and spoke of saying it was inadequate in stating that the fetus was a living soul. God knew our souls, not our human bodies. When does the soul enter the body?

There are many who would argue that since Jeremiah was pre-ordained to be a prophet that he was a "special case" as was John the Baptist and Jesus Christ. God knew the pregancies would be successful and guarded them as they progressed. They say that not all pregnancies fall in this category. That seems reasonable since they were clearly preordained for a specific purpose whereas others are not.

Do you feel that Jeremiah's case applies to all people? Is there any scripture to support that belief?

Originally posted by windword
reply to post by GeneralMishka

 

22 If men strive, and hurt a woman with child, so that her fruit depart from her, and yet no mischief follow: he shall be surely punished, according as the woman's husband will lay upon him; and he shall pay as the judges determine.

23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

Well, that's really up for interpretation, isn't it?

If a woman's fruit departs from her due to trauma, what further mischief could we expect? Perhaps, the man's wife bleeding to death?

How likely is it that a 5 month old fetus lives through such an ordeal? How likely is it that a Hebrew judge would determine "a life for a life" and would exact the death penalty because of the expulsion a dead, bloody, undeveloped fetus that never drew breath? Is there such an example we can refer to in the Bible, where the death penalty is exacted for causing a miscarriage? Nope.

I looked it up

"Verse 22. "And hurt a woman with child" - As a posterity among the Jews was among the peculiar promises of their covenant, and as every man had some reason to think that the Messiah should spring from his family, therefore any injury done to a woman with child, by which the fruit of her womb might be destroyed, was considered a very heavy offense; and as the crime was committed principally against the husband, the degree of punishment was left to his discretion. But if mischief followed, that is, if the child had been fully formed, and was killed by this means, or the woman lost her life in consequence, then the punishment was as in other cases of murder-the person was put to death; ver. 23"

Adam Clarke


.

Originally posted by GeneralMishka

I looked it up

"Verse 22. "And hurt a woman with child" - As a posterity among the Jews was among the peculiar promises of their covenant, and as every man had some reason to think that the Messiah should spring from his family, therefore any injury done to a woman with child, by which the fruit of her womb might be destroyed, was considered a very heavy offense; and as the crime was committed principally against the husband, the degree of punishment was left to his discretion. But if mischief followed, that is, if the child had been fully formed, and was killed by this means, or the woman lost her life in consequence, then the punishment was as in other cases of murder-the person was put to death; ver. 23"

Adam Clarke

Up until the underlined portion, the author was interpreting correctly. However, there is nothing to support the underlined part. That is an opinion inserted into the statement that is not supported by the source.

Often, those who have a certain opinion interject that opinion into otherwise factual statements. Either that portion would need to be removed or the entire quote is false.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


YES!!! Finally some one else gets it. There is no soul in the woumb. After all christians are born again, not concieved again. Pro life pro choice only keeps people politically polarized.

reply to post by BELIEVERpriest


Many of us get it, it's just that people on this side of the "political spectrum" don't spew it at others the way the venomous right-wing does. The "Christian Left" is finally stepping up in the face of the foe that has developed over time. We should have nipped it much earlier, but perhaps it wasn't time to do so yet. There are many steps in separting the wheat from the chaffe

Why would anyone use the bible as a moral source on the topic of abortion...

God all throughout the OLD TESTAMENT was smashing babies like gallagher... And murdering children aswell... left and right child murder... he was basicly bathing in their blood and laughing about it.

Who the **** in their right mind give two ****ing ****s about what god has to say about morals?

If this isn't considered human life, than what is?

One of the most amazing photographs I have ever seen is of a surgery being performed on a 21 week-old fetus named Samuel Armas. The boy is having surgery performed in utero for his spina bifida. In the photograph, the unconscious boy's hand is poking through the surgical incision in the uterus and is resting on the finger of the surgeon. You can see the photo at www.michaelclancy.com... The picture paints a thousand words that my mere words cannot match, but allow me to draw attention to the obvious fact that the surgeon is performing surgery on one living human being who is residing in the womb of another living human being.

www.prolifephysicians.org...

This pretty much sums it up.

The Bible's Teaching Against Abortion

www.priestsforlife.org...

Since President Obama is back in office, he has stated he will fight for partial birth abortions to become legal. So, this would mean that abortions can be performed up to the very second the baby is to be delivered.

Barack Obama on Abortion

www.thepoliticalguide.com...

Partial Birth Abortion

www.priestsforlife.org...

At the end of our lives, we all have to stand before God for judgement. For those who believe in Him anyway.

reply to post by GideonFaith


I'd give you a million stars if I could.

Why do we hear so little from almost all women who have an abortion?
The shame?
The fear?
The grief?
Whatever way you twist it the fact is most women who have an abortion never recover from those actions.
Its not just a simple decision that has no future ramifications, No matter how you in your mind try to justify the decision, reason your actions, excuse your choice, that decision will for the most haunt your life.
A Woman mostly desires to become a mother, its part of the makeup. To love cherish and mother a child, part of themselves.
To abort that child is a lifetime decision that many women carry as a burden forever, many women never forgive themselves for those actions.
Not judging, just stating facts.

Unfortunately a foetus to most women does equal a life, and undergoing an abortion is terminating life.
Its a termination and it is a life being terminated. As a Christian I know there is forgiveness in Christ

Dont play pretend

I judge no one by these comments, just a statement and a warning.

reply to post by PurpleChiten

They are presently trying to cram down everyone's throat that life begins at conception, that's not really in line with biblical teachings at all. In fact, it would be more of a scientific statement than a religious one. Of course, that group uses whatever may suit their purpose to push their ideas onto others, case in point.

I have not read all of the post yet but I will go back and do so.

Point 1: Abortion is NOT a religious issue. Christians are not the only ones who believe life begins at conception.
Many athiest, scientist, doctors and people of other faith believe it as well.

Point 2: One can Not tell you what the bible teaches by reading a web page. If you want to know, read it from cover to cover. Then study some more.

Point 3: Why are you trolling (not an actual point but I had to ask)?

When a woman has an abortion she takes away a human life. You do not have to be a Christian to understand that.
Think of it this way................
When you hear of someone who was convicted and executed for a crime they did not commit, how does it make you feel? Like an injustice has been done? Well that is how many feel about abortion. The life of an innocent person was taken.
Sorry, this has nothing to do with religion. This is a question of being humane.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


This thread is another great example of why I'm not a Christian.

"A house divided against itself cannot stand."

reply to post by borntowatch

Why do we hear so little from almost all women who have an abortion?
The shame?
The fear?
The grief?

There is certainly an overt attempt to shame women who have had abortions into silence, but to answer your question; It's because it's a personal decision that is made in private. It's nobody's business.

However, any woman that you know that uses "The Pill" or an "IUD" or uses Norplant for contraception has experienced an abortion. These methods don't always prevent conception but cause the uterus to become an hostile environment resulting in early abortions.

For those of you who believe that life begins at conception, this is a problem. These women using these contraceptives are no more or less guilty than the woman who takes "The Morning After Pill" or seeks a medical procedure to terminate a pregnancy.

Norma McCorvey states her story of Roe vs Wade and her feeling now.



Several rape victims stories.

reply to post by PurpleChiten


It should not be a question of when life begins as that is academic. A Sperm Cell is alive and is Biologically Self Determinate. A Human Egg Cell is alive and is also a Life Form unto itself. Thus the question that asks...When does life begin?...is fundamentally wrong.

The question that should be asked is when does a developing Fetus gain Sentience. This is the question that should be answered with a degree including a Plus or Minus period of time to ensure proper informational facts that will be a great help in allowing decisions pertaining to planned parenthood to be properly thought out.

I however would never try to tell a person what they can or cannot do with their body. Split Infinity

uh huh... well you can talk to kingdom come about this topic but it will change no one's opinion...

I am a mother.. I have died on the table giving birth to one of my children... when the doctor asked me who to save.. me or my child I choose the child... I died for 3 minutes and some odd seconds before they revived me. My son was 2 months premature.



but I also have had an abortion, and i've miscarried at 19 weeks.. ( it was not because of the abortion it was because i had multiple children before this). I do not regret the abortion. I struggled with the decision for along time but I know that it was for the best at that time in my life nor do I believe that I will go to hell for it... nor do I go around telling young girls to go get one... It is a private matter and before Roe vs. Wade women were killing themselves and doing all sorts of horrible things... I won't be back to this thread until tomorrow so if you want to hop on the bandwagon about what a horrible person I am because I aborted a child.. you'll have to chill. The medical term for natural miscarriage.. is abortion. I do know women who named and mourned their unborn children, again it is everyone's person choice and personal belief system...

good luck tho...

Originally posted by gnosticagnostic
I won't be back to this thread until tomorrow so if you want to hop on the bandwagon about what a horrible person I am because I aborted a child.. you'll have to chill.

I've got your back.

reply to post by borntowatch


But is it really the action that they regret and fear or is it the way society treats them that they regret and fear? THAT is the big question.....

reply to post by Quadrivium


Since you are responding on a thread I created with things not related to the thread, it would seem that you are the one trolling, not me