Christianity and Abortion, page 12

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:13 PM

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Originally posted by Annee

I'm sorry - - but that is not a realistic argument.

Oh yes it is... Just because YOU don't want to accept it doesn't make it so...

You seemed to claim that the fetus/baby must be able to breathe by itself to have a spirit, and there are children and people who can't breathe by themselves and need some sort of breathing apparatus to help them... I guess they lost their spirit if we follow your line of reasoning... How is that not a valid argument?...

edit on 13-11-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

Annee

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:14 PM

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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Annee

NO - they are not the same.

A fetus is a parasite. It lives off its host.

A new born baby is independent of the mother. The mother is not required for the baby to live.

The only parasites are people like you...

PARASITE: Biology: An organism that grows, feeds, and is sheltered on or in a different organism while contributing nothing to the survival of its host.

www.thefreedictionary.com...

Annee

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:15 PM

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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

You seemed to claim that the fetus/baby must be able to breathe by itself to have a spirit, and there are children and people who can't breathe by themselves and need some sort of breathing apparatus to help them... I guess they lost their spirit if we follow your line of reasoning... How is that not a valid argument?...

I have not said that at all.

ElectricUniverse

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:15 PM

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reply to post by Annee

Society can be seen as an organism, it is composed of many living people... And there are those who feed off the rest of the people... So they must be "parasites" to your kind...

Annee

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:16 PM

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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse
reply to post by Annee

Society can be seen as an organism, it is composed of many living people... And there are those who feed off the rest of the people... So they must be "parasites" to your kind...

Strawman?

Are you running out of valid arguments?

GideonFaith

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:19 PM

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ElectricUniverse

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:21 PM

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Originally posted by Annee

I have not said that at all.

Really?... So it wasn't you who wrote, and I quote...

Originally posted by Annee

All you are doing is stating what you have been taught by man.

Purple is presenting a different interpretation.

Below is an interpretation of man's writings. But it is interpreted from the perception we are Energy Beings - - not of the physical - - but experiencing the physical.

Point being - - - physical is not sentient without the Energy Consciousness (soul) which must choose when it enter the physical host. Human is not sentient until first breath.

A fetus gets oxygen through the amniotic fluid, so a fetus does breathe, althou differently than we do after we are born... Again, there are many people that since they were born need some sort of breathing apparatus to help them breathe... AGAIN, are they not human, or have no spirit/soul according to you?...

edit on 13-11-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

ElectricUniverse

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:27 PM

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Originally posted by Annee
Strawman?

Are you running out of valid arguments?

I find it hilarious how people like you use euphemisms like "strawman" out of context, and you think that just the mere mentioning of such out of context euphemisms made you win the argument...

edit on 13-11-2012 by ElectricUniverse because: (no reason given)

Annee

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:28 PM

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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Annee

I have not said that at all.

Really?... So it wasn't you who wrote, and I quote...

Originally posted by Annee

All you are doing is stating what you have been taught by man.

Purple is presenting a different interpretation.

Below is an interpretation of man's writings. But it is interpreted from the perception we are Energy Beings - - not of the physical - - but experiencing the physical.

Point being - - - physical is not sentient without the Energy Consciousness (soul) which must choose when it enter the physical host. Human is not sentient until first breath.

A fetus gets oxygen through the amniotic fluid, so a fetus does breathe, althou differently than we do after we are born... Again, there are many people that since they were born need some sort of breathing apparatus to help them breathe... AGAIN, are they not human, or have a spirit according to you?...

The OP's position is - - from scripture: God breathes life into man.

My position is - - Energy Consciousness (soul) is our natural eternal state - - - physical is a chosen experience. The Energy Consciousness chooses when it enters the physical host.

The Energy Consciousness can choose to enter at conception or after birth. The physical is not sentient until the Energy Consciousness enters/joins with the physical.

Termination of the physical in no way affects or harms the Energy Consciousness - - which is eternal.

ElectricUniverse

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:30 PM

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Annee

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:33 PM

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ElectricUniverse

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:36 PM

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Originally posted by Annee
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The Energy Consciousness can choose to enter at conception or after birth. The physical is not sentient until the Energy Consciousness enters/joins with the physical.
...

Really?... And you know this how exactly?... Because some book, or person told you so?... As above, so below, just like electrons exist in both energy/wave and matter duality state at the same time, logic would dictate that the soul/spirit attaches itself as life begins for the fetus.

Shaxuul

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:43 PM

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Hilarious watching the biblically illiterate trying to "school" people on the Bible...

GideonFaith

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:51 PM

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Reply to Annee

Originally posted by Annee
My position is - - Energy Consciousness (soul) is our natural eternal state - - - physical is a chosen experience. The Energy Consciousness chooses when it enters the physical host.

The Energy Consciousness can choose to enter at conception or after birth. The physical is not sentient until the Energy Consciousness enters/joins with the physical.

Termination of the physical in no way affects or harms the Energy Consciousness - - which is eternal.

I am trying to get this straight from your post.

So, if the soul can enter at conception or after birth, doesn't that make abortion murder? Since you have no knowledge of when the soul enters the physical host? Since the host is physical, then it's a human life.

Annee

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:56 PM
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Originally posted by ElectricUniverse

Originally posted by Annee
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The Energy Consciousness can choose to enter at conception or after birth. The physical is not sentient until the Energy Consciousness enters/joins with the physical.
...

Really?... And you know this how exactly?... Because some book, or person told you so?... As above, so below, just like electrons exist in both energy/wave and matter duality state at the same time, logic would dictate that the soul/spirit attaches itself as life begins for the fetus.

Know? No one knows anything for sure.

Most people are assimilated from birth to believe in a god. It's not something they know or choose. It's something they are taught.

I've had experiences since birth (or at least first memory) - - such as OBEs - - premonitions - - etc. I would say I know there is something other then physical because of my experiences. Not because man taught me to believe a certain way.

Annee

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:58 PM
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Originally posted by Shaxuul
Hilarious watching the biblically illiterate trying to "school" people on the Bible...

Hilarious watching people take the bible as factual history.

GideonFaith

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 02:04 PM
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Originally posted by Annee

Originally posted by Shaxuul
Hilarious watching the biblically illiterate trying to "school" people on the Bible...

Hilarious watching people take the bible as factual history.

Hilarious watching people post on "Christianity and Abortion" thread when they don't even think the Bible is factual!

Stay on topic
edit on 13-11-2012 by GideonFaith because: Reminder to Stay on topic

Annee

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 02:13 PM
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Originally posted by GideonFaith

Originally posted by Annee
My position is - - Energy Consciousness (soul) is our natural eternal state - - - physical is a chosen experience. The Energy Consciousness chooses when it enters the physical host.

The Energy Consciousness can choose to enter at conception or after birth. The physical is not sentient until the Energy Consciousness enters/joins with the physical.

Termination of the physical in no way affects or harms the Energy Consciousness - - which is eternal.

I am trying to get this straight from your post.

So, if the soul can enter at conception or after birth, doesn't that make abortion murder? Since you have no knowledge of when the soul enters the physical host? Since the host is physical, then it's a human life.

So you want to choose that the "soul" enters at conception - - - to support your position? You want to make it FIT your belief.

And ignore that I said the "soul" can enter - - choose to enter at any time - - including after birth.

The games we play.

In my belief - - - why you make a decision is more important then the decision itself. Integrity is in WHY - - the circumstances of why you come to that decision. And how you work with those decisions within the confines of this physical/emotional life experience. Kind of like a classroom.

However - - No I do not support abortion is murder. I do support every woman have the right to make this choice for herself.

edit on 13-11-2012 by Annee because: DAMN QUOTES!

godlover25

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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reply to post by Annee

So going by your logic, Muslim extremists who deem it fit to behead infidels are all fine and dandy, eh?

If the Muslims subjectively think beheading infidels is okay, then its okay, lets just let them do what they wanna do!

This is why not following Gods commandments leads to confusion, strife and trouble,

Thou shalt not kill means thou shalt not kill,

it doesn't mean Thou shalt not kill unless you feel it necessary to get rid of a fetus you don't think you can raise

EDIT: Public confession and full disclosure: When I was 18 years old I got a young woman pregnant, at the time I was getting ready to enter into the Military and my father forced her to get an abortion without me knowing about it. I feel guilt and remorse for this every day and wonder where my life would have went had things not gone how they had.... Abortion is not right. Abortion is not the answer, responsibility is. If people would stick to having sex inside monogamous and matrimonial relationships, these issues would subside by in large...

We learn from our mistakes.... God help us, forgive us and bless us, in Yeshuas Name, amen and amen
edit on 13-11-2012 by godlover25 because: (no reason given)

ElectricUniverse

posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 02:36 PM
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Originally posted by Annee
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I've had experiences since birth (or at least first memory) - - such as OBEs - - premonitions - - etc. I would say I know there is something other then physical because of my experiences. Not because man taught me to believe a certain way.

Yet, you don't know, and can't know that your definition of when a human fetus gets it's soul is correct... More so when SCIENCE tells us that matter/particle and energy/wave/spirit both exist at the same time. The duality of electrons say so.

I am not arguing that we are more than just physical shells, but I am arguing that contrary to what you say, "as above, so below". Since electrons exist in both dualities of energy and matter at the same time, then the same must be true with the life/matter of a fetus and it's soul/spirit/energy.