" WITCH .............she is a witch " ooops , appologies - wrong century " "PEADOPHILE .....he i

Originally posted by schuyler
Perhaps OP's analogy is not perfect, but look at the sentiment behind it. We all believe pedophiles are bad people. We all feel justified in calling for their execution, but the real issue is: Do we throw this term about a bit too freely, and might our definitions often be too broad? For example, an 18 year old boy is caught having sex with his 17 year old girlfriend who will be 18 in six weeks. This fellow is accused of a sex crime and must register for the rest of his life. Hey, he's a pedophile!

There are Romeo/Juliet laws in most states (perhaps all) that would not allow the example you give to happen. There must be a certain number of years between the parties before it becomes a crime. I have never heard of a case like this happening.

This kind of rhetoric, along with the Mary/Jesus story, is often used by those who oppose sex offender registries and age of consent laws.

The facts just do not support the rhetoric.

reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog


The thread was started today. Not everyone hangs out on ATS all the time. He may be one of the members that is only able to be on during certain parts of the day and hasn't made it back. Just because someone doesn't hang around all day doesn't make their threads troll threads.

reply to post by NeoVain


Whoa.
That's all I can say.
...learning quite a bit about some on this forum - and not liking it.

reply to post by Zaphod58


If you go look at OP it shows the author was last online 7/8 minutes ago. Probably just coming back to check to see if the match he lit has grown into a full fire.

How wrong you all are.

The accusation "She is a witch" was, more often than not, an act to silence a threat. Imagine if you will, a Priest rapes a virgin girl. Girl tells parents, parents react, Priest screams "she is possessed."

Now, bind victim securely, attach heavy weights, throw her in the river. If she drowns, she was purified by the water and the prayers. If she surfaces then, obviously she has power - so she is a witch - men quickly now shoot her. Either way dead people can't tell the truth.

So several weeks later another sobbing child falls into their mothers arms and mum says........SHHHHHH, don't tell.

Witches and Peds are linked, always have been.

P

Massive difference you seemed to skim over, peadophiles are real, witches are not.

Originally posted by boredsilly
Massive difference you seemed to skim over, peadophiles are real, witches are not.

I hope that was not a reply to my comments, otherwise you may want to try reading them again.

P

reply to post by MonkeyFishFrog


That's also less than accurate. I've seen it say people were still online when they had been gone for an hour. Even so, if he chose not to reply right now, that doesn't mean he's a troll, or it's a troll thread. How do you know he hasn't been looking up facts to support his argument? I've been known to do that. I'll wait to reply to a thread, until I have a better reply ready than just an off the cuff response.

wow - just wow

the premise of my OP was an attack on irrationality

kudos to the handfull that understood that and reacted accordingly

as for the majority - thanks for demonstrating my point

and for the icing on the cake - now i am accussed of being a troll [ because i have not replied to my thread for 10 hours - thats called " having a life " ] and worse - accused of defending pedaophiles -now what was i saying about irrationality ?

as it is now 02:30 - i need to go to bed - if thats ok with the ATS mob ? i will attempt to reply to specific points in the morning - but as i have kit to sort and a full day out planned - i may not reply for at least 15 hours - oh ther humanity

Originally posted by Grifter81

Originally posted by PutAQuarterIn
Witches aren't a real life threat, pedos are.

ETA: This strikes me as a troll thread. No body defends pedophiles without actively trying to ruffle feathers.

edit on 11-11-2012 by PutAQuarterIn because: (no reason given)

No one is defending pedophiles are they? I think the consensus is that they need to be behind bars, or (preferably) strung up.

Call me nuts here, but comparing pedophiles (aka scum of the earth) to an innocent, non-threatning group of people, who were tortured in the most unjust of ways seems a little like defending them.

This is sure an interesting topic as it's strung together. Witches and Child Molesters. Hmmm.....

OP, I would appreciate one thing as a side note, if we could. Please define Witch. As an active follower of the Wicca faith myself, some could even call me such a thing and imagine a very very different mental picture than my fluffy old self actually doing things most would consider tedious and boring. I've never met someone within the Wicca Faith I suspected of being a child molester. I'll bet they exist, as they exist in all religions. I've just never met one personally....so that'd be my first question.

Next I'd just make an observation. Witches as a title, as I'm sure you mean it (Salem Witch trials concept) has always been a subjective thing to suggest they even exist or ever have. Some of the women put to death in Salem were accused of flying and all but materializing in the rooms of little children like a bogeyman of the female variety. Absurd stuff.

Baby Rapers or those who find that acceptable are not subjective to talk about and not only exist in truly terrifying numbers but apparently enjoy some form of high level cover while doing it. Why? Well, there is kiddy porn on the open internet, free for the taking and I'm guessing at least a fair part is real. It's what it looks like. Some may say it's just too hard to find those people...running websites for goodness sake. I'd answer by saying, ask yourself how hard YOU would be to find....anywhere on Earth...if you made a threat against certain leaders they considered credible? I'll bet nowhere on Earth is far enough to run....and the attempt to locate you would never really end either.

Are our kids at least as important? Thats technology available today...not new laws and not new toys to violate everyone. They could find the baby rapers today.

Then...if you want to talk about Deeper areas of the World wide computer networks....Well, any and all doubt as to it being an epidemic against our Children and a VERY LARGE one at that, should vanish. The problem is..I can't even say were you'd look. The reason? The people who could stop it have made it a crime to even report you've found it, because you had to look at it and use judgement to determine it worthy of reporting. THAT is a crime. (sigh)

Perhaps what is needed is an indepth discussion about paedophilia in and of itself.

Would a Male in his mid 20s marrying a 12 yo Female who became pregnant at 14 and gave birth to the first of their 6 children when barely 15 be a paedophile?
If so my Maternal Grand-Father was a Paedophile. As would be a large majority of all Baby-Boomers Grand-Fathers.
From the late 19th well into the 20th century it was common for a Man to come to the USA and after establishing himself send back to the 'Old Country' for a Bride.
This Bride was a young Girl.
They came over in groups (Think Steerage in 'The Titanic') to meet the Men they had been chosen for.

Please note I am not judging the fairness morality or merits (or lack thereof) of this practice. I am just pointing out the accepted moors of the period.


Go back to the Shakespearian days.
Romeo and Juliet were 12-13 years old.
Kids by todays standards.
The feud between their families had nothing to do with their ages.
Life expectancy then was early 20s. Not many lived to see Grand-Children.


Let's look at the 'Cave-Man'.
As far as reproduction went one was old enough to 'Do It' when one was old enough to do it.
Given the brief life-span of the time (The Tribal Elders were lucky to see 40) early reproduction was imperitive to the survival of the Species.


Let's examine Childhood itself.
The concept of Childhood has not been around that long.
Society invented Childhood some 150 years or so ago.
Before then Children were just small not very old People.
Chores were being done starting about 3-4 years of age.
Survival was paramount and everyone contributing was paramount to a Tribe's/Clan's/Family's survival.


I submit that perhaps sexual attraction to Youth is a genetic trait which though no longer a vital factor in Human propagation is nonetheless a primal drive still inherent to many.
Note that Paedophilia is recognized as a Sexual Orientation.
Note the premium placed on youth.
Note the vast and blatent sexualization of youth in media.
Note the common sexual fantasy/fetish involving the 'Naughty School-Girl' or the "Slutty Cheer-Leader.


I am not condoning or defending Paedophilia.
I am saying that there is more to dealing with this very complex and controversial issue than 'Burn Witch Burn'.

IMO

What i find strange is most pimps running underage girls are never arrested or charged as pedophiles..

One city in calif that i know of the cops watch pimps and there underage girls just to bust there johns as pedophiles.
these working girls have been on drugs like meth so long they no longer look underage

But the cops seldom take the girls off the street or go after the pimps. because of the better publicity they get by busting the johns as pedophiles.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


If the user name fits ...

Use it with complete disregard to victims.

Ignorant Ape is ... ignorant ape.

Here in Australia there is a massive push for a royal inquiry into paedophilia within the catholic church.

Too much help in relocation and cover-ups ... something stinks.

The stench eminates from the vatican.
I am sure the PTB will use air freshener and move on. ( nothing to see here etc.)

No one is disregarding the victims anywhere in this thread. We just want to see a little more innocent until proven guilty of people accused, and for people to stop throwing the accusation around every time someone gets pissed off about something someone does. Which has settled down a lot since the 1990s, but still, if the suggestion is even hinted at, there is a lynch mob, whether the person did anything or not. That's what this is about.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by ignorant_ape

 

Only difference is there is no such thing as witches and never was.
There is such a thing as pedophiles.

Fact is, they are sometimes people you pass everyday and would never suspect.
They should be ferreted out, brought into the light of day and punished for it.

edit on 11-11-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

Does not matter. Back then they truly believed in witches and the social response and behavior was still the same. Whether there were or were not witches is irrelevant.

It was quite the thing back then, now we have a new thing , same behavior.
The point the OP is making is social psychology and behavior which does indeed not seem to have changed much in that regard.

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by ignorant_ape

 

Fact is, they are sometimes people you pass everyday and would never suspect.
They should be ferreted out, brought into the light of day and punished for it.

So anyone with a psychiatric disorder should be ferreted out and punished? Many people automatically connect the mental disorder of pedophilia directly with acting out on it (child molestation). When that's simply not the case. A large number of people have strange sexual preferences, fetishes, or perversions; many of which are considered repulsive -- Which I would agree with. Attraction to children, sadism, rape fantasies -- only a few examples.

The clear line here is whether or not these people act out on their desires and impulses. The separation between 'thought crime' and actual crime. A psychopath doesn't ask for their mental condition, but they must still cope with it; so long as they don't let their lack of certain emotions wreck havoc on others.

Unfortunately, instead of the money being spent on exposing these human trafficking rings; it goes to causing pain, destruction, endless guilty pleasures, & extreme opulence for the most amoral humans on the planet. It's sad.

reply to post by Zaphod58


We have actual serving police, being given the run-around in regards to their complaints about priests who have a predeliction for little boys. What chance does Joe Public have?

The doors need to be blown off this A.S.A.P. !

Even catholic defenders are saying " there is a murky shadow being cast upon the workings of the catholic church " .

Don't defend them ... weed them out.

Your title and intent reminds me of a book I read some times ago..

‘When the mobs are looking for witches to burn, nobody's safe’

Talking about the reactionary crowd

Given the number of scandals rocking this country over the last few years covering the military, the police, the media, celebrities and politicians I can't help but think something is certainly rotten, however I also can't help but think some group is stoking these fires.

I also can't help but feel deeply cynical that those stoking these fires don't have their own agenda in play and I struggle to believe it is putting right these wrongs.

Perhaps my cynicism comes from inhabiting a broken and corrupt system on the one hand I'd like to think there are good guys out there, but somehow can't bring myself to believe that, I guess the proof will be in the pudding.

reply to post by Timely


That's exactly the mentality that he's talking about. No one is saying hide them, or that it's ok. It's that the "weed them out and burn them!" mentality is getting to the point where people are almost afraid to look at someone wrong, because they're going to get accused. And once you're accused they'll come after you with pitchforks.

I was almost a victim of this, just from trying to be nice to my sister in law's daughter. We were at a Halloween thing that her family does every year. The kids were off playing, and we noticed that the other kids were being mean to her daughter and picking on her, because they were a little older. The other kids went off together, leaving her alone. My wife and I went and played with her for a few minutes, before my wife got tired. I played with her a little longer, and tried to make her feel like not everyone was going to be mean to her.

A couple of months later, we were almost homeless, and asked her sister to let us stay with them. She let us stay for a day or two, but made up some excuse about not staying long because of the kids, and her not being comfortable with me there, since she barely new me. We just kind of passed it off, until a couple of years later. Come to find out, she was telling everyone that she knew that I was a pedophile, and she was convinced that I was after her daughter, because I paid too much attention to her that Halloween.

I was damn lucky that it didn't go any farther than her family, but she could easily have gone to the police and launched an investigation that would have destroyed my life. Once a rumor of even being investigated for that got out, I would have never been able to find a job, and would have had to leave the town we lived in.

THAT is what we want to see stopped. No one is trying to cover for anyone, and no one is trying to suppress the victims here. Just stop the damn witch hunts when someone looks too long at someone.