" WITCH .............she is a witch " ooops , appologies - wrong century " "PEADOPHILE .....he i

Originally posted by newcovenant
reply to post by ignorant_ape

 

Only difference is there is no such thing as witches and never was.
There is such a thing as pedophiles.

Fact is, they are sometimes people you pass everyday and would never suspect.
They should be ferreted out, brought into the light of day and punished for it.

edit on 11-11-2012 by newcovenant because: (no reason given)

I don't know if you know this but children have curfews most child molestors are out during the day. Thats when children are out. If they're out past curfew then it's child neglect. I agree don't like them either. But lets get our facts first before we start pointin fingers at night people.

reply to post by Manunnaki


You do realize brought out into the light of day is an expression?
A metaphor... I think it's called?

reply to post by newcovenant


I just wanted to help those that may not see it. There's always "that guy".

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by Grifter81
reply to post by ignorant_ape

 

I see your point. At the moment here accusations are being banded about recklessly and innocent people are getting smeared in the process.

Those who have committed these awful crimes should be brought to justice but in the courts. At the moment any tom dick or harry can stand up and say "I was abused by such and such in the 70s" and be believed by the masses.

Whatever happened to evidence and the idea of innocent until proven guilty?

They are innocent until proven guilty.

I don't see the problem.
Nobody goes to jail without a chance to prove they are innocent of the crime they are charged with. If other peoples crimes can be released, as in a Police blotter - what is the difference here? Thieves have their reputations to uphold too.

The problem is that s@#t sticks and innocent people are getting covered in it in a media frenzy. Allegations should be taken to the police, not the papers, not the media, not fired out on twitter and TV personalities shouldn't be handing the prime minister lists of suspected peadophiles they downloaded from the internet live on air when there's little proof of anything.

I'm all for naming and shaming the bastards once caught but let's investigate into these claims first.

Some would say there's no smoke without fire and in some cases that's true but you can't deny this is fast becoming a 'witch hunt'.

Point to make here, at the turn of the last century, teenage girls (no matter how old or young), were routinely marrying at that age. Even in in the 50s-60s, 13/14/15 year olds etc. could be seen with older guys and it was no big deal. Society today is changing and the line is becoming more blurred.

Paedophiles who rape babies and toddlers etc. are sick, twisted people (but I doubt there are many of those kinds of paedophiles), but there is a line and yes there is paranoia on this whole subject

Originally posted by Evanzsayz
reply to post by newcovenant

 

Only difference is there is no such thing as witches and never was.

That's funny, there are plenty of witches today and throughout history.

For sure there were, although I'll add that the majourity were male, and I'm not certain if the term "warlock" was actually coined until LeVay, this century. Can you believe what you were responding to there? That made me roll my eyes : it seems if people don't like hearing something these days, they'll effort to rewrite it until it sounds nice based on a sideline technicality. As if they could document the "never was". lol

Originally posted by newcovenant

They are innocent until proven guilty.

I don't see the problem.
Nobody goes to jail without a chance to prove they are innocent of the crime they are charged with.

Dead people, as with Jimmy Saville, would have trouble proving their innocence. I believe innocent until proven guilty means we assume a person innocent and guilt must be proven. Accusations of this nature seem to stick, even if acquitted.

On a UK forum there is a thread with over 15,500 replies.

www.davidicke.com...

Factual evidence is being assembled and some victims are explaining that they haven't reported their abuse to the police because the police were their abusers.

We are witnessing diversion tactics by the government and many mainstream newspapers.

The general mood is extreme anger.

The truth will be revealed eventually and the number of people seeking it grows daily.

reply to post by Zcustosmorum

Even in in the 50s-60s, 13/14/15 year olds etc. could be seen with older guys and it was no big deal. Society today is changing and the line is becoming more blurred.

Do you think that this change came about, because society realized that "13/14/15" year old children were being molested by "older guys"? That they were to young at that age to become involved in relationships with men that had interest only because they were "13/14/15"?

Originally posted by VeniVidi
reply to post by Zcustosmorum

 

Even in in the 50s-60s, 13/14/15 year olds etc. could be seen with older guys and it was no big deal. Society today is changing and the line is becoming more blurred.

Do you think that this change came about, because society realized that "13/14/15" year old children were being molested by "older guys"? That they were to young at that age to become involved in relationships with men that had interest only because they were "13/14/15"?

Times change mate and I wasn't alive then but what about the girls at that age who got married and were so for the remainder of their lives? Just saying that there is two sides.

The focus of attention in uk has shifted from celebrities abusing girls aged 12 - 15, to paedophile rings abusing boys aged 5 - 15, and politicians and police as ring members.

PS have you forgotten Larry King already?

Firstly OP, please let us know WHO exactly are all these people being innocently accused ? Their has only been ONE to date that is known as far as i am aware. Even then, that false accusation came very 'conveniently' for the pm D. Cameron, after the live on air situation with Scofield., when he said we should be mindful of 'wrongful accusations'. Hmm !
So, please let us know of all of the others that made you so concerned that a witch hunt was going on. I'm very keen to hear of them.
In the case of Jimmy Savile, as a previous poster had pointed out, there is a fine line. It was despicable he chose young girls but even by todays laws you can legally have sex with someone on their sixteenth birthday in the UK, but if you slept with her the day before you are a pedophile with a criminal record , put on a sex offenders register and a life wrecked forever.
What people should be looking into here first are the links Savile had to people in high places who may have had close ties to known pedophiles, the information that's known at present regarding suspected abuse in care homes etc to find out if it is still going on TODAY.
We are talking about rings here that may STILL be up and running.
The rest of the Savile stuff should take a back seat for now as we are talking girls of maybe 14, 15 or 16. As bad as that is, it's not as bad as those who are torturing, abusing and possibly murdering toddlers. That must be dealt with first in my opinion.

Think what the OP was trying to get across was that our lack of understanding is what drives us to strip pedophiles of their humanity and label them sinners just like our lack of understand (our ignorance) drove us to burn 'witches'. That's the similarity the two have.

Its this sick herd mentality to circle around something which we oppose, strip it of its humanity and destroy it.

It's Neanderthal thinking and not the kind of a civilized world.

It's gotten so bad that every damn guy with a certain look to him can be suspected of being a pedo.

Pedophiles don't actually have a choice over their desires. Its there and eventually it'll probably take hold of you. Think its similar to smoking. . . you crave a cigarette and the more you try not the think of it the more you do.

Even a psychopath. They don't have control over what they do. Your mind will work against you and its hard fighting against yourself.

I'm not condoning this behavior, though.

But I do agree we as a society should stop this stupid mentality where we wanna get even instead of deter it via psychological treatment.

Here is an extreme example

If the mods feel this is too graphic don't hesitate to remove it



"Every man is innocent until speculated guilty!"

reply to post by DariusHames


Well said mate.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


I realize that many disagree with me here but...

I think that the OP has the glimmerings of a point. An accusation of pedophilia has potential to become a modern day witch hunt. People are prone to being reactionary when it comes to this particular accusation because of course they do not want their children harmed, and because in the current social atmosphere, if one does NOT break out the proverbial kindling and matches over this, then you have a pretty good chance of standing accused yourself.

In the U.S. in the 1990's for example there was quite a witch hunt going on with these sorts of accusations. People went to prison for decades, and it later came to light that the "victims" were pressured by over-zealous prosecutors and social workers into false accusations with leading questions, and other tactics. Also, evidence of innocence was sometimes hidden. Many of these children recanted those accusations as adults.

An accusation of pedophelia can indeed cause a certain amount of hysteria, and then we can see jurisprudence trampled in the rush.

I'm all for prosecuting adults that would hurt children to the fullest extent of the law, but it does no one any good to pretend that there isn't a great potential for a rush to judgment and false accusations with this one, which in effect does amount to a witch hunt. In fact, simply asking for a measured thoughtful approach can cause the blood thirsty masses to throw someone on the pyre.

Count down to flaming accusations of pedophelia in 3... 2... 1...

Perhaps OP's analogy is not perfect, but look at the sentiment behind it. We all believe pedophiles are bad people. We all feel justified in calling for their execution, but the real issue is: Do we throw this term about a bit too freely, and might our definitions often be too broad? For example, an 18 year old boy is caught having sex with his 17 year old girlfriend who will be 18 in six weeks. This fellow is accused of a sex crime and must register for the rest of his life. Hey, he's a pedophile! How old was Mary, mother of Jesus, when he was born? Scholars tell us she was probably about 14 because women were considered adults at the onset of puberty, not years later by some hyped up legal term. So God (or Joseph) is a pedophile.

Pedophilia, real pedophilia is bad news and we react to it with a vengance rarely seen in anything else. Witness the reaction in this thread. It's the same with accusations of homophobia. If you say anything, ANYTHING at all against the gay lifestyle, even of it is protesting certain group's vicious intimidation tactics, you are accused of being a "homophobe," one who FEARS homosexuals. Seriously? Because I don't like you that means I fear you? How stupid can you get?

And, of course, there is our old favorite, tried and true: RACIST! Yup, if I say Obama's fiscal policy is leading us down the road to ruin, I'm an automatic racist. He's done nothing wrong in his entire life and if anyone accuses him of anything at all, even if it's documented, they are automatic racists.

The problem with accusing someone of pedophilia is that they are considered guilty until proven innocent. It can ruin your life, and even if the accusation is total nonsense it will take months to sort it out. Meanwhile you lose your job, your friends, maybe even your family.

So if you are going to accuse someone of pedophilia, you'd damn well better be right. And if you screw up? You deserve to take the brunt of the lawsuits, or resign your post as the BBC Director just did. How many people became outraged when they read the completely false BBC story? It's true: There are real pedophiles and no real witches, but the hysterical accusations sound the same.

reply to post by ignorant_ape


You know what I think? I think you've not actually read very much about these cases, or the people actually sent to prison for the crimes they were proven to have committed.

You suggest that this is the same as being accused of witchcraft, but there was never any evidence of the actions of one being harmful to another in that situation. If you had actually bothered to actually read something about the stories, you would know that there are witnesses, there is evidence in the form of video and photographs, you would know that there are sworn statements by those abused and that they were corroborated by others independently.

Do you deny the Franklin scandal in the US happened? Even though there is a wealth of evidence that one of the victims entered the white house on a private tour and saw rooms that no citizen should be able to accurately describe?

Believe me, I have been one of the first people to refuse to accept that there is "widespread" child abuse throughout our societies. I have argued with people on ATS against the idea that there are "gangs of Muslims" abusing young girls. I still believe that it is not as widespread as some seem to fear. But I fully accept that there is far too much evidence of the crimes taking place, and far too much evidence of the police and government covering it up for this to be nothing more than a witch-hunt.

I would seriously suggest that you look into the historical cases, the failing of the police around the UK (and elsewhere) and the connections between the UK and France, Belgium, Italy and Portugal. There are PROVEN links, with CONVICTED abusers, and STATEMENTS with EVIDENCE tying all of this together.

The fact that you have not bothered to investigate any of the historical cases does not mean that they do not exist. Educate yourself.

Another point to make on this issue, is that there are some very twisted and spiteful people in todays society that use the stigma of paedophilia just to throw dirt at someone, much in the same way as spreading disinfo about a persons sexuality.

Someone who does stuff with young children clearly has mental health issues and should be regarded as a sick person

There is a cure by surgical castration - maybe you will suggest 'after 3rd offence' - just hope that your children aren't victims 2 and 3.

"there are ways you can tell she is a witch."

":there are?"

"tell me. what do you do with witches."

"BURN THEM!!"

" what else burns?"

"wood?"

"so why do witches burn?"

"because they are made of wood?"

"good!"

sorry, could not help it!

seriously, should these accusations prove to be true, then those who committed the acts and those who covered them up, better feel the full weight of the law come down on them. to harm a child is is one if not the worst crime a person can commit!