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The International Abuse Ring - Investigation Thread

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posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 07:27 AM
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Originally posted by Monkeygod333
I dont realy see the point of this thread if all you want to do is faff about with no links to any of the accused.

The list can be found by anybody doing a simple search on google, why cant said list be discussed in detail here?

It's not like it'l be trail by media, especially if the magic word 'allegedly' is used whenever referring to a certain person.


To begin with, posting the link or adding the names is publication. In the UK, anyone can be arrested and charged for making such an allegation against another if it is unfounded. Many people who use the internet do not understand that their content on a forum or a blog is considered publication. Just as a tabloid can be sued for publishing something that is not true about an innocent individual, so can any UK citizen. It's rare and unlikely, but it's fact.

Also, I have seen a couple of those lists out there on the net, and they are not informative, they are accusations, without any evidence offered, without any real integrity. There is one which lists gay MP's and includes them as criminals when their crime was actually just being caught with their pants down with another consenting adult. That is not the same as abusing children, and to include them in such lists is disgusting to me.

There is also a name on that list who had a relationship with a younger man before the age of consent was altered. In the UK, the male/male age of consent used to be 21, then it was lowered to 18 etc, although he may have been technically braking the law, many now assert that the age of consent law was unequal and therefore unjust, so while he may have used bad judgement from a professional standpoint and "technically" broke the law, most see that this was not right and he does not belong on a list of child abusers.

I believe that this is why the PM made the statement about there being fears of a "gay witch-hunt". Yes, one could argue that the law was the law at that time, but having consensual relations with a young man who is 18 when the law for male/male relationships was 21, and opposite sex relationships was 16, should not be considered as child abuse. We now see that the law was unequal, and it was wrong. It should have been changed long before that. So those caught up because the law was incorrectly positioned should not be labelled as something they are not!

As for using the word "allegedly", yes, people use that option. But this accusation is perhaps the most damaging a person can face. We don't need to know who is allegedly guilty, we need to accumulate the cases together and find connections.

I do not trust that the general public is as level headed, and I fear that many are looking at those lists and just assuming that they are accurate. It doesn't matter to many people, if there is a name on that list then they must be guilty. This doesn't further the investigations and it doesn't help us on ATS either.




posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 07:31 AM
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Originally posted by delboy2424
I have been on David Icke site and there is over 600 pages about this. also check out Chris Spivey Parliament paedophiles. sorry new on here don't know how to post links yet. but i think this a big can of worms that has been opened and it can't all be lies some of it might be true and if it is then we NEED justice for these children and not swept under the carpet again. Good luck with this thread.


I fear the mention of David Icke, I really do. There is so much about him that makes absolutely no sense, and any regular person out there looking into this and seeing his material is more inclined to dismiss him as a crazy person.

I mentioned before that it seems he has been correct on several things, and his assertions about this might be right too. But he's just not a credible person to present in my opinion.

Thanks for the suggestion of a link, I'll do a little searching on all the suggestions a little later and compile as many as I can into one post.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 07:37 AM
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Originally posted by KilgoreTrout
If anything, the media is doing far more harm by creating the notion that ALL paedophiles belong to such a network and are part of the conspiracy.


I have to agree that I too worry about the sensory overload problem, but I haven't seen much of a discussion about the suggestion that all are connected.

Having said that, I have read a couple of stories that include mentions which would support that perception too.

There was one case of a ring in the UK, and once it was disbanded and covered up, members of that group fled to Portugal and Belgium. There are at least two other cases which state that members went to both countries too, and both those cases were separate from each other, with different people accused.

Therefore, I would be reluctant to say that there isn't a concrete connection between many of these people.

I know it's not possible that every person guilty of this is in the same club, but there seems to be evidence that many of those rings uncovered involve people who travel in the same circles and seem interested in the same locations.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 07:44 AM
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Originally posted by ladyteeny
dear aquestion.

this thread is surely about exposing all links to the supposed paedophile rings in the uk but also around the world. wherever it originates, wherever it's tendrils creep out to, wherever they end up. you seem fixated on arguing with evanb when it seems to me that all he was doing was adding something relevant and topical to the thread. please don't take things personally, unless of course you are personally involved.


Dear ladyteeny,

LOL, accusing me of being a pedophile for asking people to keep their focus on what we do know is simply silly and I will play that game. If you ignore my questions do not think I will stop asking them out of fear of being accused of being a bad guy, I am not that simple or afraid of the truth. I am also not young or stupid. I have been molested and do take it personally, shouldn't I? I am not someone who accuses groups of being responsible for the actions of some of their members, I say the opposite and stick by it. Check my threads and check my posts.

I have no problem with EvanB, I have a problem with changing the subject. Those who protect pedophiles change the subject and discredit the abused,don't waste your time with me, I don't change my words out of fear of being ridiculed, I don't work that way. Why do you? I have very clearly said it is not about homosexuals, Satanists, Catholics, Masons or any other group. I have made it clear that these people don't belong to any group other than child molesters. I don't blame anyone other than those responsible for what they do.

"Don't take things personally" unless you should, as you said.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 07:45 AM
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reply to post by detachedindividual
 


Dear detachedindividual,

Keep it up, you are doing a great job.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 07:47 AM
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Originally posted by SteveEdoesIt
This whole abuse cover-up is the reason I joined this forum today. It simutaneously sickens and angers me to imagine how easily these powerful people are getting away with all this. I've noticed that most of the previous old threads that have tried to start a discussion about this have had pitifully little response, so if by signing up and chipping in I can help keep this thread alive, I can at least try to do somethingabout this.


Firstly, I want to thank you for joining, we can always use more level headed and curious minds on ATS, and I hope you'll continue to find this forum interesting beyond this case. There are a lot of great people here, and while some discussions can be very emotive and political (especially when it comes to politics and religion etc) there are a lot of worthwhile threads appearing all the time worthy of some involvement.

Also, I'm sorry to hear about your cousin. It must be very difficult to deal with that kind of situation. It's a good thing that you got to the bottom of that situation before it went any further though, so that's something to be appreciative of I think.

I had a nephew who was taken into care unjustly because of the violence of his father (my sister took the kids and left him to go to a shelter, and they accused her of neglect). He was placed with a school teacher foster carer with other kids, the house was raided and he was arrested and charged with child abuse. They didn't tell my sister. She was told that her son was moved for other reasons to another foster carer, and she then read the report in the local paper that the house had been raided


Anyway, thanks for contributing here, I hope you'll stick around



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 07:48 AM
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People are interested and people DO want this type of activity to stop...but if you yourself have small children, the last thing you want to do is put your children in anyone's cross-hairs...especially the type of people who find meaning in abusing innocent children in this way.

I also believe that this type of behavior has been in our society for a long long long time...hidden behind humanities finer moments...Like this Saville guy. Or Sandusky in the states. These animals are psychopaths...and they are currently running the show from all corners of the globe...

I wonder sometimes why TPTB allowed the internet to be declassified and widely used by the general population...Ever since the early 90s its been one huge story of craziness after another that would never have been figured out and spread like wildfire, had it not been for the World Wide Web of Self Entrapment. Seems that technology has outed some of the most heinous things known to the GP(General Population)



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 07:51 AM
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This thread might help those confused about lord mcAlpine

www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 07:59 AM
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Originally posted by JustJoe
I wonder sometimes why TPTB allowed the internet to be declassified and widely used by the general population...Ever since the early 90s its been one huge story of craziness after another that would never have been figured out and spread like wildfire, had it not been for the World Wide Web of Self Entrapment. Seems that technology has outed some of the most heinous things known to the GP(General Population)


That's why I think they DO want to control the internet. It is the most powerful method of communication and information sharing in the world, and they don't like it one little bit.

In the UK we have the proposition of a draconian collection of information on all citizens, including all searches, all traffic, emails, calls, texts, shopping habits, facebook activity... this is another step towards controlling the masses and limiting them in their use of the internet. It is fundamentally going to be used to stop people from discussing, collaborating and exposing things that will embarrass or harm the government. It's going to be used to prevent protests and rallies, petitions and the sharing of information when those things threaten the authority of government.

How do I know this? Because the idea that it will reduce crime and terrorism is a myth. Those guilty of such are already using proxies, VPN and basic coding that security services cannot crack. The idea that this massive collection of data is going to be used only to prevent crime is lunacy.

I believe the PTB didn't understand how powerful the internet would become. Anyone who was around back then when it came to be will know that it has changed beyond all recognition. We never had search engines, we followed links or directly accessed a site. Now, anything can be found and researched, and the world really is open to scrutiny in many respects. People can communicate freely about anything, and people can plan and protest without restraint. The government cannot infiltrate a forum that they do not know exists - so they need to know it exists, and they'll do that by monitoring protest groups and so on.

Anyway, slightly off topic, but it deserved a mention.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 08:03 AM
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reply to post by AQuestion
 


I was not changing the subject by what I posted. The reason being that the higher ups in Parliament at the time have been implicated as being members of the pedophile ring even the the PM who took self rule from the Northern Irish during that period. In fact that PM has been accused of some very vile things indeed! These also link to the Saville case too hence why I bought it up, and makes one wonder how Saville got to be soo untouchable.. Knighted too!.. Are you there yet?.. It all seems linked to me.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 08:11 AM
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Originally posted by monkofmimir
This thread might help those confused about lord mcAlpine

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Thanks for that link.

I like the investigative nature of that OP. That's what we need here. They've clearly looked into this with more depth and have found some evidence that is relevant to the case.

I think it is still uncertain, for instance the confusion of the dates. It could be that the perpetrator chose to use a different name at the time, perhaps to deliberately confuse an investigation.

In all cases I think the victims should be given photographs of those suspected and asked if any of them are familiar to them. In this kind of situation it would be far easier to assert guilt than simply by name.

I don't think a victim is likely to confuse time periods to the degree suggested there either, for instance I can think back to my teen years and all memorable incidents have a known time frame.

It's confusing, but I think the OP is on to something. I think either the police were confused, were deliberately providing a false name to protect someone and accuse another, or there was simply a ridiculous misunderstanding about who the guilty party was.

I don't, for one moment, believe that Mr Meesham was guilty of false accusation.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 08:29 AM
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Originally posted by EvanB
reply to post by AQuestion
 


I was not changing the subject by what I posted. The reason being that the higher ups in Parliament at the time have been implicated as being members of the pedophile ring even the the PM who took self rule from the Northern Irish during that period. In fact that PM has been accused of some very vile things indeed! These also link to the Saville case too hence why I bought it up, and makes one wonder how Saville got to be soo untouchable.. Knighted too!.. Are you there yet?.. It all seems linked to me.


Dear EvanB,

I have no issue with you or exposing pedophiles wherever they may be. I anticipate everyone using them once compromised. Too many times we have seen the focus changed and the guilty get away because the waters are allowed to get muddy. I say lets keep our focus on the guilty that we can prove. This is not a Catholic thing (and I left the Catholic church over 2 decades ago) and this is not a Masonic thing (and I never joined them) and this is not a Satanist thing, this is a pedophile thing and blaming others is to avoid the real issue. This is about having sex with children, with people who do not understand what is going on, or only understand that it makes them feel really bad. It is not about sex, it is about control and power.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:03 AM
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If savile lived in america it would be big, huge, untill msn realised how damaging it was to them, then it would die a rather quick death, like all the other stories.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:16 AM
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Originally posted by detachedindividual

Originally posted by monkofmimir
This thread might help those confused about lord mcAlpine

www.abovetopsecret.com...


Thanks for that link.

I like the investigative nature of that OP. That's what we need here. They've clearly looked into this with more depth and have found some evidence that is relevant to the case.

I think it is still uncertain, for instance the confusion of the dates. It could be that the perpetrator chose to use a different name at the time, perhaps to deliberately confuse an investigation.

In all cases I think the victims should be given photographs of those suspected and asked if any of them are familiar to them. In this kind of situation it would be far easier to assert guilt than simply by name.

I don't think a victim is likely to confuse time periods to the degree suggested there either, for instance I can think back to my teen years and all memorable incidents have a known time frame.

It's confusing, but I think the OP is on to something. I think either the police were confused, were deliberately providing a false name to protect someone and accuse another, or there was simply a ridiculous misunderstanding about who the guilty party was.

I don't, for one moment, believe that Mr Meesham was guilty of false accusation.


The Mail on Sunday may be like garlic to a vampire, but there was an awful lot about Mr Meesham in there yesterday that raises a lot of questions about his integrity. You may not like the source, I appreciate that, but the actual facts make interesting reading. Plus both the BBC and at least one Labour MP (Tom Watson) seemed to have got over excited about naming a known Tory figure without carrying out the absolutely essential due diligence that must surely be applied for these kind of accusations.

Edit to add: Showing a picture just of the person the police think is the guilty party is not really that helpful. You don't have an identity parade made up of one person for the same reason.
edit on 12-11-2012 by something wicked because: reason in main text



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:18 AM
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reply to post by detachedindividual
 




This is actually a very good article and contains info about several of the big incidents and a LOT of info on Hollie Greig.

www.davidicke.com...

Yeah I know... It's David Icke but it's a actually a very good read.

I'll post some excerpts but would advise reading the whole article



I have been naming the former British Prime Minister, the now late Ted Heath, since 1998 to be a child-killing paedophile Satanist and, in terms of his 'high-office', he is far from a rarity (see article below this one). I know others, including one who spent a long time in that position.

These networks control governments, national and local, 'law' offices, police, courts, coroners' offices, crematoria, social services, law firms and so on, and they have their own doctors and pathologists to ensure when necessary that they can cover up how people have truly met their fate.

Every time I have investigated, or read about the investigations of others, the same blueprint is there to see. Children are supplied for prominent members of 'society' through children's homes and other sources and should they and their families seek to expose what has happened they are met with a wall of resistance from police, social services and the court system.

The former Nebraska state senator, John W DeCamp, famously uncovered a paedophile ring in Omaha involving establishment figures and leading US politicians while he was investigating the financial fraud of a top Republican called Lawrence King who ran the Franklin Community Federal Credit Union in Omaha.






What has happened to Cathy and her daughter, Kelly, would be horrific enough if it was a one-off, the result of one sick and depraved man, but this is happening daily all over the world to enormous numbers of children.

Wherever you are in the world reading this newsletter - your country's political-intelligence-military network is doing exactly the same.

You don't hear about it, except through those willing to investigate without fear of the consequences, because of this 'wall' I talked about. The system slams the door by refusing to investigate and prosecute; by making sure 'investigations' that are started never get anywhere; by threatening, even killing, the people seeking justice; and by threatening those few in the mainstream media who are willing to handle the story.

John W DeCamp details in his book, The Franklin Cover-up: Child Abuse, Satanism, and Murder in Nebraska, how the Satanist-paedophile ring included those who controlled the government, police and media in Omaha and thus the 'wall' was in place to stop justice. Most of the small fry are also protected because their prosecution could lead to the 'big fry'.




The biggest secret society in the world is not called the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry for nothing. The Knights Templar remerged out of Scotland after they were purged in France in 1307 - that's how far the Scottish connection to this goes back. In fact, even beyond that.

Whenever you investigate paedophilia and Satanism, you will find that Freemasonry and/or other secret societies eventually come up. Every time. So it is with the Scottish paedophile-Satanism ring that goes into the 'heart' (wrong word) of the Scottish and British governments.

If you want to find a nest of paedophiles and Satanists look no further than the British establishment and the Houses of Parliament. The same goes for Scotland, the United States - everywhere.

This is one major reason why the paedophile-Satanist-controlled system has to ignore or intimidate any child and family that seek to expose the perpetrators of abuse - they are terrified of where it could lead should the dominoes start to fall.




Hollie and her mother went to the police to report her abuse and the people she had named. These included a Scottish sheriff (a top judge), senior police officers, lawyers, a fire officer, accountant, nurse and social workers. She said that the rapes happened at the perpetrators' homes and inside a temple of the Scottish Rite of Freemasonry.

What most people don't know is that Down's Syndrome people make excellent witnesses because they tell it like it is and, in effect, don't have the ability to spin a story that isn't true.

Once again the 'wall' went up. The Grampian police refused to investigate and, when pressed into some sort of 'action', refused to investigate in anything, but name.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:32 AM
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Originally posted by blupblup
reply to post by detachedindividual
 




This is actually a very good article and contains info about several of the big incidents and a LOT of info on Hollie Greig.

www.davidicke.com...

Yeah I know... It's David Icke but it's a actually a very good read.

I'll post some excerpts but would advise reading the whole article





It might or might not be a good read, but I'm not sure there is any evidence - that's facts, not supposition, that Edward Heath was a murdering, child abusing satanist.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:36 AM
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Originally posted by something wicked

It might or might not be a good read, but I'm not sure there is any evidence - that's facts, not supposition, that Edward Heath was a murdering, child abusing satanist.



Indeed and I don't know whether it's true or not.
But the article, as I said, details several accounts of "paedo rings" and cover ups and is an interesting read.
Most have been named by the OP and most of those are also mentioned in this article.

I was just giving sample excerpts from the article, not reporting my own, personal findings



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:46 AM
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Originally posted by detachedindividual

Originally posted by delboy2424
I have been on David Icke site and there is over 600 pages about this. also check out Chris Spivey Parliament paedophiles. sorry new on here don't know how to post links yet. but i think this a big can of worms that has been opened and it can't all be lies some of it might be true and if it is then we NEED justice for these children and not swept under the carpet again. Good luck with this thread.


I fear the mention of David Icke, I really do. There is so much about him that makes absolutely no sense, and any regular person out there looking into this and seeing his material is more inclined to dismiss him as a crazy person.

I mentioned before that it seems he has been correct on several things, and his assertions about this might be right too. But he's just not a credible person to present in my opinion.

Thanks for the suggestion of a link, I'll do a little searching on all the suggestions a little later and compile as many as I can into one post.


Why do you think Icke makes no sense? What is SO much about him that doesn't make sense? I see a man fighting to get the truth out. They laughed at him 25 yrs ago when he fingered high profile people to peadophile rinks. And look where we are today. We're still laughing at him for all his claims but it seems to me that he is more spot on than any other consipracy theorist.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:11 AM
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In reply to the OP and the 'witch hunt against gays'
Cameron was basically ambushed on a live TV show.
He was given a list of suspected cabinet members that had been collected from... TWITTER.
Yes... the general public has been going rife with accusations, posting names on Twitter, with little or no basis other than the fact they are gay, or the public don't like them.
THAT'S the witch hunt he was calling against, NOT any sort of official investigation.
Now, I'm not going to sit in a bubble and deny that there is possibility of cover-ups taking place, Saville himself was under investigation many times, and he managed to have it swept under the rug.
But members of the public, calling someone out, on Twitter, with absolutely no evidence,
just because they are gay, that's not cool



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:27 AM
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Originally posted by RamsOnTop

Originally posted by detachedindividual

Originally posted by delboy2424
I have been on David Icke site and there is over 600 pages about this. also check out Chris Spivey Parliament paedophiles. sorry new on here don't know how to post links yet. but i think this a big can of worms that has been opened and it can't all be lies some of it might be true and if it is then we NEED justice for these children and not swept under the carpet again. Good luck with this thread.


I fear the mention of David Icke, I really do. There is so much about him that makes absolutely no sense, and any regular person out there looking into this and seeing his material is more inclined to dismiss him as a crazy person.

I mentioned before that it seems he has been correct on several things, and his assertions about this might be right too. But he's just not a credible person to present in my opinion.

Thanks for the suggestion of a link, I'll do a little searching on all the suggestions a little later and compile as many as I can into one post.


Why do you think Icke makes no sense? What is SO much about him that doesn't make sense? I see a man fighting to get the truth out. They laughed at him 25 yrs ago when he fingered high profile people to peadophile rinks. And look where we are today. We're still laughing at him for all his claims but it seems to me that he is more spot on than any other consipracy theorist.


Exactly where are we today? Where is the evidence against the people he specifically names? People laughed at him for saying he was the second coming and that the Earth was controlled by reptilians... I can only assume the reason he gets away with out and out libel is because he has no credibility.






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