Obama demands tax rises for rich over fiscal cliff

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posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 02:10 PM
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Originally posted by Tarzan the apeman.
reply to post by beezzer
 
Why would anybody want to give the people who don't know how to spend money, more money? That is insane. I am all for taxing everyone but you need to control spending. Tax tax tax does nothing if you spend spend spend. Oh and one more thing lazy people have no skin in the game either,they pay no federal taxes. I'm all for helping the poor but not the lazy. Oh and one more thing: Does it really matter?We already fell off the cliff we just haven't landed yet.


This isn't about helping the poor

Its about balancing the checkbook
-points to the deficit-
That negative number needs to be a positive number...that requires revenue, and since we can't really streamline other stuff much more without some serious suffering of people whom can't afford it, then we need the revenue that was in the clinton years.

And go tell someone working 10 hour days doing general labor and still needing some assistance that he is lazy...then check your insurance to see if removal of hammers from your colon is covered.




posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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For the record...

Regardless of actual tax rates, the US has collected approx the same amount of tax revenue as a percentage of GDP in this century.

Change income tax rates, and those that can will just move their income to sheltered areas.

Change all of the tax rates, and those that can will just move their income outside your jurisdiction.

Btw, thank you in advance for all the extra investment that is already starting to come to me.




posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 04:03 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 

Dear SaturnFX,

Good afternoon. Been awhile, hasn't it? I was wondering if I could get a little clarification on your most recent post.


Its about balancing the checkbook
-points to the deficit-
That negative number needs to be a positive number...that requires revenue, and since we can't really streamline other stuff much more without some serious suffering of people whom can't afford it, then we need the revenue that was in the clinton years.
I checked an interesting site for our revenue numbers through history. www.taxpolicycenter.org... Those numbers show that in Clinton's most successful year in getting revenue, he beat 2011 by only $300 billion. And that's accounting for inflation. Say we add that amount to our revenue, we'll still be about 3/4 trillion dollars in the hole every year.

If we can't cut, sorry, streamline, stuff much further, we're still looking for an answer. Say we up our revenue to Clinton's best year, then double the tax on everyone making over $250,000, we'll be close to ending our deficit for the next couple of years, but then planned expenses will tip us back into the hole.

I think we're going to need some more ideas. It doesn't look like there's an easy way to raise the revenue needed to cover our expenses.


And go tell someone working 10 hour days doing general labor and still needing some assistance that he is lazy...then check your insurance to see if removal of hammers from your colon is covered.
I checked, just in case. No, of course I wouldn't tell someone like that they're lazy, but sometimes there are misunderstandings. Anyway, my insurance company said tack hammers are covered, but sledge hammers are major medical and I don't have that.

With respect,
Charles1952



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 04:10 PM
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How much money do you really need to have a good life? 10k? 100k? 100 million? Why should people be allowed to hoard as much money as they can get?
Communism has received such a bad reputation that the mere mention of the word turns people into mouth foaming savages. What people don't like to think about is that communism has only been tried in dictatorship governments. Never before has a democracy tried to mix with communism.
It's no wonder our economy is in the gutter, when people are allowed to hoard all the wealth. Oh well, I guess we could just keep printing money and hope for the best.

Also, to those that say taxing the rich would reduce job creation: Not all rich people create jobs. A lot of their wealth is used to make even MORE wealth for themselves.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 04:15 PM
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Originally posted by zero1020
Also, to those that say taxing the rich would reduce job creation: Not all rich people create jobs. A lot of their wealth is used to make even MORE wealth for themselves.


And how do they create more wealth for themselves?

They invest.

What most here fail to realise is that the rich of the USA have been investing, massively.

Just, not in America.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 04:22 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by SaturnFX
 

Dear SaturnFX,

Good afternoon. Been awhile, hasn't it? I was wondering if I could get a little clarification on your most recent post.


Its about balancing the checkbook
-points to the deficit-
That negative number needs to be a positive number...that requires revenue, and since we can't really streamline other stuff much more without some serious suffering of people whom can't afford it, then we need the revenue that was in the clinton years.
I checked an interesting site for our revenue numbers through history. www.taxpolicycenter.org... Those numbers show that in Clinton's most successful year in getting revenue, he beat 2011 by only $300 billion. And that's accounting for inflation. Say we add that amount to our revenue, we'll still be about 3/4 trillion dollars in the hole every year.

If we can't cut, sorry, streamline, stuff much further, we're still looking for an answer. Say we up our revenue to Clinton's best year, then double the tax on everyone making over $250,000, we'll be close to ending our deficit for the next couple of years, but then planned expenses will tip us back into the hole.

I think we're going to need some more ideas. It doesn't look like there's an easy way to raise the revenue needed to cover our expenses.


And go tell someone working 10 hour days doing general labor and still needing some assistance that he is lazy...then check your insurance to see if removal of hammers from your colon is covered.
I checked, just in case. No, of course I wouldn't tell someone like that they're lazy, but sometimes there are misunderstandings. Anyway, my insurance company said tack hammers are covered, but sledge hammers are major medical and I don't have that.

With respect,
Charles1952




I think I misstated. I meant that you cannot only cut/streamline and resolve the issues without it hurting those in need.
There are cuts and such that can happen in conjunction with letting the tax stimulus expire. cut military spending by 10-15% in my opinion wouldn't hurt them at all. Retirement age kicked up a few years, etc etc etc. I don't mind working a few extra years personally..most people my age (30somethings) assume we will be.

Also removing these "loopholes" in the tax structure is a great move..it needs to be a little bit of everything plan. the far left tax raise for the rich only doesn't work, nor does the far right's stop giving food stamps or whatever plan they suggest. This needs to be bipartisan.. According to the nerds, thats the only way this is going to work..

And should someone in 4 years come forward and talks about another tax cut that is unfunded...kick that person in their bits...this pain in the ass should be a once in a nation issue.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 04:23 PM
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reply to post by SaturnFX
 
What part of I'm for helping the poor but not the lazy did you not understand. And someone needs to learn how to balance there checkbook by that I'm talking the Government. One more thing I have been a laborer for well over thirty years.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 04:29 PM
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Originally posted by Tarzan the apeman.
reply to post by SaturnFX
 
What part of I'm for helping the poor but not the lazy did you not understand. And someone needs to learn how to balance there checkbook by that I'm talking the Government. One more thing I have been a laborer for well over thirty years.


Many on ATS believe that poor people, or anyone recieving any benefits = lazy.

Problem is, how does a faceless beaurocratic government agency figure out who is lazy, and who is unfortunate? Who makes that call?
Some softy may believe someone who doesn't like the chasing after the dollar reality is too depressing and think they aren't lazy, they are creative...whereas a hardarse may find some 61 year old 3 heart attack/anurism/bed ridden is just being lazy and cut off (happened to my mother..nurse for 45 years, got sick, government told her to shove it..so not absurd..currently getting SSI is like pulling your own teeth with chopsticks)

Point is, being poor is a economic measurement..its math. being "lazy" is a judgement that cannot be measured and agreed upon. Any rule punishing the "lazy" will undoubtedly be absused



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 04:37 PM
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Originally posted by zero1020
How much money do you really need to have a good life? 10k? 100k? 100 million? Why should people be allowed to hoard as much money as they can get?


For me, 100 billion
This would allow me to fuel research into breaking sciences in propulsion, nanotechnology, cloning, cryostasis, and the like.

I think what annoys me about the hoarders (stupid rich) is that they do nothing with the money overall..sit on it and watch it grow like one would watch a tumor grow and grow.

I think our capitalist system could do some fantastic things if the haves are a bit more altruistic, but they aren't overall..and that sucks. So, ---- em.

Contribution to humanity...poop or get off the pot.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 04:47 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


Not that I assume it will work, but if it does would the republicans do the same?



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 04:52 PM
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reply to post by solidguy
 


I don't but how do you think the economy will be stimulated if the wealth of the rich is spread out among the poor and the poor spend that money on wants/needs? You don't think that will create demand for jobs if you know, a few million people want stuff compared to a handful of wealthly individuals?



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 05:16 PM
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reply to post by FlyersFan
 


Tell you what, make a flat tax, then go ahead and make a flat pay, everyone gets paid the same, communism because that's obviously what you want. People don't just get rich by working hard, do you think that no one that is poor or middle class works hard? Of course they work hard, they just don't cheat the system as much or haven't figured out how. I work my ass off, and you know what, it's a struggle. I'm married with one child, I have bachelor's degree and I'm working in a position with insurance and slightly above average pay. I can barely pay all my bills and I'm not on welfare. Without cheating the system or getting a job that pays more which I'm qualified to work I doubt this will change anytime soon, and for the record I'm trying to find a job like that and it has been rather difficult to find any. The only offers I've had haven't offered much higher pay then were I am working even though they should be. Tell me why do the rich have such high paying jobs? Most of the time the rich people I know of don't seem to be working harder then the rest of us. So why do they get paid more? You tell me they "earned it" and that people are being greedy because they want more. No one said they wanted more for free at least no where that I have noticed. You want to talk about fair, then find make a flat tax, and while your at it make everyone get paid the same....I don't agree with that but I do think that the rich could afford to be paid less without it really hurting their life styles too much and the money they lose helps the America's they used to help them get to where they are. Then those same Americans could spend that money on things they want and need and suddenly because people are buying things that stimulates the economy and production which ultimately helps the people that are rich "earn" even more money. I don't consider myself a democrat at all btw. I consider myself independent, but I think you are delusional if doing the same # the republicans have been doing to the economy in the past is suddenly going to have a different outcome.

Because people are sooo greedy they're taking all the rich folks profits so they can get by a little easier while the rich folk get by just as well as they did before they were taxed....booo hooo I'm sorry I took that money away from you that you weren't really using so that I can get by and actually live more comfortably....my bad.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 05:33 PM
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reply to post by Jeremiah65
 


I completely agree. Good post star for you.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
Go on liberals. Take the money.

Raise taxes.

I suppose this will be the only way to show the rest of America that leftist policies won't work. That they are a failure.

I wonder if the left and Obama will claim ownership for the economy then.

Will the leftists finally take responsibility for the economy?

Will the leftists finaly take ownership for their own policies?




Yeah brother - leftists like Ronald Reagan who (by the way) also raised taxes in order to spur the economy. Obama is a Rockefeller Republican in Democratic clothing. Try to get past some hyperbole once in a while



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 07:13 AM
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Originally posted by samlf3rd
It seems anyone making over $250,000 per year would be affected, and many people are in outrage claiming this would destroy the economy. B.S. liars, this will definitely help out the economy. Has anyone ever tried? No. They theorize on its demise, and claim it would never work. Well like I said let's give it a try for one, since you have never given it a try before. If it doesn't work, then I am sure we can always revert. But welcome to our world now.


I own a small business. Just 6 employees, built it from the ground up. I make more than $250,000 per year and I am far from "rich". But that is all just perspective. Most morons with limited intelligence, poor education, crappy families look at people like me and think I somehow was given what I have on a silver platter. Yeah sure I use public roads, but I already paid for those through existing taxes. I rarely use the post office, as all my clients pay electronically, and the only thing I get from the mailman is junk. I rely on other successful and DEPENDABLE businesses like Fed-Ex and UPS (which actually do a lot of sub work for the post office, funny that, huh?)

I have no problem giving back a little more, paying a little more taxes. But what ignorant folks like you don't understand is unless there is GOVERNMENT REFORM any extra money I would pay ends up in a black hole. EVERYTHING the government touches ends up over-budget and over-complicated to the point where even they don't know how it works. Giving them more of my money will only perpetuate this.

Fix the government and then ask for more money. But not fixing the government and giving them more money is like your 14 year old daughter asking for a higher allowance when she can't even get off her ass to clean her room. And then when you tell her "no", she sneaks into your wallet and just steals it anyway.

Get real libs.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 09:14 AM
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reply to post by mrsoul2013
 

Reagan raised taxes to end the cold war and stabilize the world through defense spending on our military. The USSR could not keep up and their Democracy was born. Money well spent and yes it did stimulate the economy with manufacturing jobs to build up the military. Raising taxes to hand out entitlements will not stimulate the economy. Pouring billions into manufacturing solar panels that the world is not buying does not stimulate the economy. Had they invested that money into alternative energy research instead of production we might come out ahead in the long run but it would still not stimulate the economy.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by samlf3rd

Originally posted by Tarzan the apeman.
reply to post by beezzer
 
Why would anybody want to give the people who don't know how to spend money, more money? That is insane. I am all for taxing everyone but you need to control spending. Tax tax tax does nothing if you spend spend spend. Oh and one more thing lazy people have no skin in the game either,they pay no federal taxes. I'm all for helping the poor but not the lazy. Oh and one more thing: Does it really matter?We already fell off the cliff we just haven't landed yet.



Dude that is a horrible quote, how do you know poor people don't know how to spend money? Stereotype...
If poor people had more money they would spend it in their local economy (most of it), then those businesses could paint their building, add a sign, a clean parking lot, pay employees to clean and provide better safer services-and much much more. Poor people spend money, middle class spend money, and so do the rich. The rich buy the most BS objects just to spend money. You clearly don't have any grasp on the way economies work do you?


He is referring the the government not knowing how to spend money. Not poor people. he doesn't talk about that til a few sentences later. He's saying, like everyone else, why would we give the feds more money whent hey will misuse it like they have been. Think and read before you speak next time.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 11:35 AM
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reply to post by gameisupman
 


A agree with you. It's the same with the new health care. Because of whatever reason, it's over priced. The governments answer for people like me not having health care, is just pass a llaw requiring me to buy it. Don't do anything to address the high prices.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 11:40 AM
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If you earn 10 million dollars a year and have to pay 4 million dollars in tax, then claim you are poor because you only have 6 million measly dollars to live off a year, then there is something seriously wrong with you.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 01:07 PM
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reply to post by YourWIFI
 


what happens when they refuse to pay, not mentioning any names but heard some very well off peeps stating that they have no intention of accomidating obama, me being a server and all wanting to keep my job.... just smiled and worked for my tip





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