Obama demands tax rises for rich over fiscal cliff

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posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 08:56 PM
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Originally posted by WP4YT

Taxing the rich more, will never work. And here's why



They are rich. They will move out of the country because they can. They will move to another country that taxes them less, where they can make more of a profit. And then, rather than us getting huge amounts of tax $$$$ from the rich (the 1% provide more tax money to the country than the 99% do combined, even though the 1% are taxed less % of their income wise) we will get $0.00 from them. And then we will really be screwed. So by all means liberals, tax the rich more. Then when the country falls apart, you will reap the fruits of your labor.

Don't think it can happen? Then look at France. They decided a few months ago to start taxing the rich at 70% tax rate, and already the rich are leaving their country.



That's what they want the rich to move to china.. Money buys freedom their.. Much like mexico




posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by gangdumstyle

Originally posted by WP4YT

Taxing the rich more, will never work. And here's why



They are rich. They will move out of the country because they can. They will move to another country that taxes them less, where they can make more of a profit. And then, rather than us getting huge amounts of tax $$$$ from the rich (the 1% provide more tax money to the country than the 99% do combined, even though the 1% are taxed less % of their income wise) we will get $0.00 from them. And then we will really be screwed. So by all means liberals, tax the rich more. Then when the country falls apart, you will reap the fruits of your labor.

Don't think it can happen? Then look at France. They decided a few months ago to start taxing the rich at 70% tax rate, and already the rich are leaving their country.



That's what they want the rich to move to china.. Money buys freedom their.. Much like mexico
:lol

And when they move out of the country Americans will not buy the're products and since we buy more than all countries combined, they will grow poor but no longer have a key to gain reentry to the nation! The end.
:
edit on 11-11-2012 by ajay59 because: to correct



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 09:52 PM
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By giving back money to the poor, the poor will spend more...the rich only have to re-adjust a little bit and they will end up making the same amount of money.

Trickle-up economics?



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 10:16 PM
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There certainly seems to be a fair amount of confusion in this thread, I'm not sure I can tackle all of it, but is it possible to introduce a little clarity?

The first problem is what is meant by raising taxes "a little bit?" And what is meant by "fair share?" Nobody is ever really told, we just have to guess. May I suggest that doubling the taxes for everybody over $250,000 would be a "fair share?" If you want more than that, I think you're being unreasonable.

So, what does that mean in dollars? In 2011 all income taxes provided the goverment with $1.0915 trillion. The top 20% paid 68.3% of the taxes, therefore they paid $745.5 billion. If you double that amount you'll get an additional amount which won't even cover our overspending. Our deficit will continue to exist and our debt will continue to grow.

Now, add in that Social Security and Medicare, along with other entitlement programs which are expected to grow quickly, and our deficit becomes that much greater.

Will the top 20% sit still for doubling their taxes? I think not. Therefore the government won't get the full $745.5 billion they might expect, and the deficit grows some more.

Any additional money the government gets from such a plan won't go to create jobs, there is no new stimulus spending in the works. Besides, the stimulus spending we've done hasn't created jobs. The per centage of people of working age, that have jobs, has fallen each quarter since the beginning of Obama's presidency.

How do you see any of that working?



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 10:21 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
Go on liberals. Take the money.

Raise taxes.

I suppose this will be the only way to show the rest of America that leftist policies won't work. That they are a failure.

I wonder if the left and Obama will claim ownership for the economy then.

Will the leftists finally take responsibility for the economy?

Will the leftists finaly take ownership for their own policies?



We own can own that, sounds like a deal!

If it doesn't work America can pass judgement
And I will accept it.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 11:00 PM
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One day it will dawn on people that taxes are trickle down.

Taxes are trickle down.

Taxes are trickle down.

Taxes are trickle down.

Did it dawn on anyone yet?



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 11:11 PM
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People making over 250,000 a year should not be thrown into the same group as the million and billionaires of this country. It's absurd.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 11:15 PM
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The money is fake. People are arguing over taking fake money from the rich(bankers) and giving it to the IRS to be paid as interest to the fed (bankers) ???????



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 11:17 PM
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Originally posted by Drezden
People making over 250,000 a year should not be thrown into the same group as the million and billionaires of this country. It's absurd.


Wisdom. This is class warfare being shoved down our throats. They will find any wedge to divide us.
edit on 11-11-2012 by NihilistSanta because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 11:21 PM
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Originally posted by MyHappyDogShiner
The wealthy of american society today are little more than modern day royalty.

I say,lets bring a little balance.

Now the my money is my money argument begins from those who have more than they need.

I say that the small amount of income I generate should be left alone for me to use,instead of paying into infrastructure for some arrogant showoff in his/her lexus to use.

You don't get rich by paying your way,you get rich by finding ways not to.





I have a brother in law who makes well over 250,000 a year. He has worked in the oil industry since he was 17, he's now 58. He worked his way up from a peon to a head of division. I know for a fact[I've seen the checks] they pay more in tax each quarter than many make all year. His tax rate is 39%. They do not have a tax lawyer to find ways around paying their due. Don't paint all the well to do with the same brush.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 12:15 AM
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Yea, taxes are going to go up on the rich. Those dirty old rich people. Who are they anyway? They're the people who's taxes are going up.

I'm glad I'm not one of them. I only make less than 40k a year. Most of my taxes are payroll tax.. They're not raising that are they, because I have to pay that?

I also get about $1200 a year from oil royalties I inherited from my parents. That's a capital gain. They're not going to raise taxes on capital gains are they, because I have to pay that?

My wife and I don't have any health insurance either. It cost too much. We usually just pay the doctor with frog skins. That usually comes to a total of about 8 or 9 hundred a year if we're lucky. I heard now we'll have to pay a $1500 a year fine for not having insurance, and it's still going to cost me the same 8 or 9 hundred. But that's not really a tax is it?

I hope they're not going to tax power plants more. I have to pay for electricy. If they start a carbon tax, will that cost me more too?

Well anyway, I'm glad I'm not one of those rich guys. Their taxes are going up.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 12:49 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
Go on liberals. Take the money.

Raise taxes.

I suppose this will be the only way to show the rest of America that leftist policies won't work. That they are a failure.

I wonder if the left and Obama will claim ownership for the economy then.

Will the leftists finally take responsibility for the economy?

Will the leftists finaly take ownership for their own policies?


Dont raise em, just let the tax breaks expire! Seems to me things have been heading south since they were put in place.

Stop acting like this is somehow our fault! Certainly we have those who take advantage but this not the case for the majority. This spending crisis, oil hikes, and the housing mess were are all engineered affairs. The Dollar will be worth exactly what they decide it should be worth! Competitive devaluation Beezzer, you-they dont want a stronger dollar! Nothing has done more to hurt American industry than $4.00 gallon gasoline! If your dear leaders really wanted to rebuild the dollar and America with it this would never have happended.

If cheap labor is your goal then stay the cource, if not then start by ending the systems that put us in this place!

If you wanted to restore American industry you would not worry about cheap labor you would implement quality standards, to require that all products come with a mandatory 1-2 year warranty. That cheap Chinese crap would not be able to compete and the loss Wal-Mart et all encounters would see American quality put the cheap imports where they belong. In the trash!

I think this is out of the question though because it would mean less profit for the monopolists systems which dominate the US markets! As such near slave wages would be a better fit, huh!

The great strength of the China is that it forces those who fear it to imitate it. I for one don't want to see my country mens wages competing with that of a Chinese worker wages. I would rather see those who operate the monopolists systems pay a heavy tax to be used to prop up living standards and care for our less fortunate etc.. I dont want to see my country men in the dirt because a few powerful entities want to keep their profits high!

The backbone of America is the middle class not the elite, or the to big to fail!

Success is the sole earthly judge of right and wrong and so far America has almost always been on the right side of history. It is just the past decade or so that seen this trend upended. The right thing to do now is to roll back the failed policies.

P.S. To big to fail should mean to big to exists!
edit on 12-11-2012 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 01:22 AM
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This will do a great deal for our nation fiscally speaking. Now we just need to slash our defense budget, and we would be looking extremely well off as a country. And you know who I blame for us not getting these tax increases on the wealthy sooner? And who I blame for the outrageous defense budget? The GOP. Why on earth they want to take away from public assistance programs, being that it provides for their own citizens, and spend that money on things like overseas wars is something that more are coming to understand.

These same lobbyists and businessmen who pushed for no new tax increases on the wealthy are the same individuals who are making wads of money from these overseas excursions by the US military. It is easy to spot the racket without stretching the imagination at all.

So I think that pressure from these lobbyists and big business types are what kept Obama from attempting to do this sooner. Had he done so, he likely would not have won re-election, imo. Now that he has nothing to lose, he is going for it. I suspect most other democratic presidents were being pressured from these groups as well, and thus they decided not to tax the rich. Actually, is not this what our last dem president before Obama did, and our economy was looking pretty good? I think so.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 01:23 AM
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reply to post by Donkey_Dean
 


I'll be the first to admit that things are screwed up. But I see the lefts approach to a solution as being worse than the initial problem.

Government, more government, bigger government is NOT the solution. Government was part of the initial problem!!!
edit on 12-11-2012 by beezzer because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 01:30 AM
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reply to post by JiggyPotamus
 

How far should we slash the military? Say we completely disband everything all at once. (Although we would have to let the vets stay in the hospitals and pay the pensions we promised.)

We then would come close to balancing our budget, maybe. No reduction of the debt, mind you, but we wouldn't go deeper in the hole.

Except, of course for unemployment for the soldiers, and the booming cost of aid for the poor and elderly. We'd have to go into the hole for that, but it's all good, right?



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 01:35 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Donkey_Dean
 


I'll be the first to admit that things are screwed up. ButI seethe lefts approach to a solution as being worse than the initial problem.

Government, more government, bigger government is NOT the solution. Government was part of the initial problem!!!


I know this seems overly simplified, but think about it for one minute.

1. $4.00 per gallon gasoline is the worst thing that could have ever happened to American industry and has caused massive around the board inflation.
2. The housing mess targeted the dollar. When the federal reserve deposits money in a bank the bank can loan up to ten times that amount. This is what gives the dollar it value, the ability of Americans to pay their debts. When you give loans to any and all you invite disaster.
3. The Bush era tax breaks created the largest spending deficits in the history of the United states. Setting a tone of doom and gloom etc..
4. The Federal reserve keeps printing more and more currency.

All of this accomplishes one thing! A weekend dollar which can better compete with the Chinese Yuen. All of this was-is and engineered affair! It is evident in the fact that they expect us to rebel or something! Why else would they want to take our liberties and spy on every move we make?

I am afraid that in a situation like this we must demand that the Government prop up our living standards and they should be made to feel the pains they have placed on us all! Else we are headed the way of Chinese slave labor! Those who profit from these policies should be made to pay!

I dont want to see Industry come to our shores! I want to see Industry grow within our borders. Like I stated above. If you wanted to restore American industry you would not worry about cheap labor you would implement quality standards, to require that all products come with a mandatory 1-2 year warranty. That cheap Chinese crap would not be able to compete and the loss Wal-Mart et all encounters would see American quality put the cheap imports where they belong. In the trash!

Beezzer I have a friend that lives in Shenzhen. He has told me that in China all products come with mandatory one year warranty. He once sent me some cameras stating how low quality they were. They were higher quality than any I have seen here! These laws do not apply to exports and so we get the cheapest products on the planet because our country men choose to pawn these items off on us, because this is where the profit is the highest.

Dont take the blame for this! It is not your neighbors who have been forced to take that minimum wage jobs fault. It is not those who have been forced to apply for food stamps to feed their family. It is the fault of cheat thieves who seek to enslave you and your children!

en.wikipedia.org... (This is the truth if you care to see.)
Currency war, also known as competitive devaluation, is a condition in international affairs where countries compete against each other to achieve a relatively low exchange rate for their own currency. As the price to buy a particular currency falls so too does the real price of exports from the country. Imports become more expensive too, so domestic industry, and thus employment, receives a boost in demand both at home and abroad. However, the price increase in imports can harm citizens' purchasing power. The policy can also trigger retaliatory action by other countries which in turn can lead to a general decline in international trade, harming all countries.

Your dear Bush was a war monger, an idiot and just plain evil!
edit on 12-11-2012 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 01:35 AM
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Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Donkey_Dean
 


I'll be the first to admit that things are screwed up. But I see the lefts approach to a solution as being worse than the initial problem.

Government, more government, bigger government is NOT the solution. Government was part of the initial problem!!!
edit on 12-11-2012 by beezzer because: (no reason given)


Let the left give it a shot, like you said before.

Funny thing about your comment, conservatives want to take over the same government you are
complaining about and use that same government to solve the same problems...



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 01:57 AM
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reply to post by Donkey_Dean
 


QE1, QE2, QE3 created inflationary dilemma we see today.

Entitlement spending, wars are our biggest draws on revenue.

I'm not sure we can end this cycle, but I'm still willing to try.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 02:02 AM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


en.wikipedia.org... (This is the truth of what's is happening, if you care to see.)
Currency war, also known as competitive devaluation, is a condition in international affairs where countries compete against each other to achieve a relatively low exchange rate for their own currency. As the price to buy a particular currency falls so too does the real price of exports from the country. Imports become more expensive too, so domestic industry, and thus employment, receives a boost in demand both at home and abroad. However, the price increase in imports can harm citizens' purchasing power. The policy can also trigger retaliatory action by other countries which in turn can lead to a general decline in international trade, harming all countries.

Your dear Bush was a war monger, an idiot and just plain evil! I think maybe he did have good intention, but we are not the worlds keeper and there is a price to be paid for unbridled aggression!

From one of the most free and prosperous nations in history we stand on the verge of a police state and financial collapse! He-they, were wrong Beezzer!

P.S. Folks pay into SS their entire lives. Then when the time comes they take back. When my grandfather paid in $300.00 in 1920 those same funds would now be equal in value to $3,000-$4,000 dollars. The only reason why this system is broken is because it has been raided and used for other purposes! You are gonna get old Beez, and you are gonna need your SS! Almost all Americans (98%) are bankrupted by end of life care! Millions upon millions are disabled by accident or disease!
edit on 12-11-2012 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)
edit on 12-11-2012 by Donkey_Dean because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 03:16 AM
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Originally posted by snusfanatic
reply to post by newcovenant
 


Punishment is not a 'value,' nor is sacrificing investment and creation and revenue so that things 'look fairer' on paper.


And this which makes no sense is pertinent because....?





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