Obama demands tax rises for rich over fiscal cliff

Simple human nature
If you pay more individual taxes, then you keep more money bound up in investments and such verses cash out.

This in turn stimulates said investments with extra money, expanding business..which in turn provides jobs.

low taxes on the rich encourages rich people to remove investments, take their money out, pay smaller taxes, then bank the money where nobody (but bankers) benefit from it.

Welcome to economics 102, title of this course: people are greedy and predictable.

The right has always been wrong here, will always be wrong, but then again, what do you expect from the "unskewedpolls" people. Facts, numbers, basic flipping math is lost on them.

POTUS won, roll back the clinton taxes for the top (omg, socialism!!! lol)

Not to worry right wing...in 4 years, you will have a chance once again to kill whatever surplus we create and shove us into insolvable debt yet again...you know...conservatism.

I cannot believe there are still middle class Americans who fall for the supply side trap. Job Creators is a term used to brain wash you. Apparently it works.

We have done this for years and it doesn't work. Supply Side economics is just a way for the wealthy to not pay.

www.neontommy.com...


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So all you liberals won't blame someone else then, when the economy tanks.

Good.

It is good to take ownership and responsibility.

reply to post by samlf3rd


Money, power and greed...many of the wealthy are really greedy...this we all know.

However...really the rich in money can afford to pay more taxes...and if they pay more taxes...they will still be wealthy...it will not be a hardship on them to pay out a few more dollars.

I think President Obama is right on this.

Originally posted by beezzer
So all you liberals won't blame someone else then, when the economy tanks.

Good.

It is good to take ownership and responsibility.

That's the best argument you got? Where are your stats and articles and studies that show tax cuts for the rich help our economy? Lame, bunny, lame.

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
Ergo: Trickle-down is a miserable failure, ...

And yet you think that Obama's trickle up poverty is going to be a success??


Seriously .... the only FAIR TAX is a FLAT TAX. Make everyone pay the same percentage no matter how much they make. Overtaxing the productive in society is financial suicide for the country. Atlas will shrug. They'll take their money and their business elsewhere.

Not to mention the fact that many economists say that raising the taxes on (stealing from) the 'rich' won't solve this countrys debt crisis. It's the failure of over spending by government that is destroying our economy .. not how much people pay in taxes.

We have NO RIGHT to take the money made by others simply because they have figured out how to make more than us. That's incredibly SELFISH on the part of the moochers and looters .. (that's all of you who support raising taxes on the wealthy). Slavery to the state .. that's what you are supporting.

Originally posted by kaylaluv

Originally posted by beezzer
So all you liberals won't blame someone else then, when the economy tanks.

Good.

It is good to take ownership and responsibility.

That's the best argument you got? Where are your stats and articles and studies that show tax cuts for the rich help our economy? Lame, bunny, lame.

Nope. You guys won.

You OWN IT NOW!

Enjoy.

beez gets popcorn and watches the left squirm)

Originally posted by caladonea
Money, power and greed...many of the wealthy are really greedy...this we all know.

And you don't think it's GREEDY for people who don't earn as much as others to take what doesn't belong to them simply because those others have it and they don't? The left has put sugar frosting on this to make it look pretty .. they call it 'make the rich pay their fair share' .. they call it 'wealth redistribution' .. but the fact is that it is really GREED by those who don't earn as much as others.

You all want more money? Find ways to make more. Example - Join the military and get a free education and job training. Use that education and job training to earn a better living. There are ways ... but everyone is getting lazy and just wants their free stuff (stolen from others).

I happen to very strongly believe in this. And would be taking more on higher levels of take home incomes, pretty sure of that.

Mind you, I would make all people support services to each other and equalizing income and much much more and even better services to all people. And a real medicare without insurance companies and fleecing people, like Canada's or even better Norway's. And dental care. And would have banking taken over by the government so they don't need any taxes from the middle class, and all money's are guaranteed. Also all pharma, all medicines would be government developed. Low cost meds.

All things government would answer to huge watchdog citizens to oversee, and monitor and even terminate all corrupt leaders terms of office.

Preservation and inspectors of meat and food, would also be priorities.

But it would be optional to contribute taxes to any form of war.

That Government banking would ensure every single person could own their own home, and land, and grow food, greenhouses on a sliding scale of income. I mean everyone. Home equals a real house with land, not an an apartment.

reply to post by FlyersFan


You do make some valid points...but I still back the President in this.

reply to post by samlf3rd


Apparently math and history isn't your strong suit... Help the deficit? ROTFLMAO! The money they will collect is a drop in the ocean and not one damn cent will go to deficit reduction they will continue to raise the debt ceiling like they have always done! And yes this has been tried before and failed every time!

You people that believe this nonsense are insane and have no clue how things work you won't get it till your living under a bridge and most of you still won't get it, you'll still be blaming all "those evil rich people" Sigh!

This all may be coming to pass.

Employers cutting back hours because of Obamacare will get more people employed again.

Maybe....

I stated in another thread,that capitalism is good when you are trying to grown an economy/country,but the diet has to change when maturity is reached,or the country/economy becomes fat and unhealthy.

Like this one.

reply to post by beezzer

That would "your' economy that tanks.

Yours.

And you will blame somebody else.

Originally posted by caladonea
You do make some valid points...but I still back the President in this.

That's fine. You are entitled to your opinion .. I appreciate that your opinion is POLITE!
Handing more money to the feds ... that's not going to fix anything. They don't know how
to handle money. They mess it up every time. It's just throwing good money away IMHO.
Cut useless pork spending. Cut overseas nation building.
Then we won't be tempted to raise taxes on (steal from) anyone. IMHO.

reply to post by samlf3rd


Donald Trump asked for Obama's college transcripts and passport, now Obama's going to ask Trump for his bank account. Seems like a grudge match. The Billionaire will win. Trump could make Obama disappear without a trace, never to be seen again if he wanted it. Julius Caesar discovered what happens when you piss off the aristocracy.

reply to post by FlyersFan



I'm not sure what you think this is about - you think we want the rich people's money so we can party? We are trying to save this country from going over a cliff. As Obama has said, it is going to take a combination of cutting spending AND building revenue to save this country. The rich are not struggling, the middle class ARE struggling. To raise taxes on the middle class would be suicide for this country. To raise taxes on the rich would be a minor inconvenience for the rich. Think of it as the patriotic duty of the rich. The poor and middle class can find other ways to show their patriotism.

All the studies show that when the rich pay more taxes, things get better, not worse. It's really a no-brainer.

You cannot tax and spend your way to prosperity.

We do actually need to be investing in our infrastructure. More efficient means of transportation means we move our products to market at less cost....it's sound logic. It also costs more to continuously repair than to replace. There is a tipping point where it is no longer cost effective to keep putting band aids on broken bridges and waterlines...you have to actually replace them.

What we have to have is a budget. A budget that we can all see and all digest. It is OUR money after all. I am not talking about some clandestine piece of paper with huge swaths of money allocated to "discretionary spending"...no...I want to see where it is going.

I have a problem with corporate subsidies. It is not right to prop up an industry. There are exceptions. I do not agree with the railway subsidies, but I understand that we need to keep our trains as a viable option. They are subsidized because they are underutilized and thus under profitable. That is one of the very few I can suck it up and accept it as a necessary evil.

We do not need to keep subsidizing the oil industry. They boast their record profits and every year, we give them money....what is wrong with this picture? We do not need to subsidize farmers to NOT grow. This is an appalling thing when world hunger is considered. Why do they do it? To manipulate markets and create false "scarcity" so they can control the pricing of grain and produce. Let farmers grow and let the prices be whatever they are...THAT is a free market economy...manipulation of the production is not "free market".

To address the "fiscal cliff"...we must start with a balanced budget. We have to stop deficit spending. Every year that we spend more than we have coming in simply adds to the abomination called "the national debt". If we really want to pass a bright future to our children, we need to balance the budget (and then some) to create a yearly surplus. That surplus is then applied to the national debt. In this equation, you are no longer adding to the national debt and are slowly reducing it. It is not rational thinking to say we can ever completely pay off the debt, but we can reduce it and any responsible human being knows it needs to be done.

Taxation is a two edged sword. Yes it does address some fiscal issues and shortcomings...the problem is...historically, if you allow them to raise taxes, they do not use the money wisely, they just spend it as well. I could accept a tax increase under the banner that spending must be decreased...only then would I be willing to get on board. The other thing taxation does is it forces people to use their money. "Use it or lose it" phrase comes to mind. If you are actively seeking to avoid paying taxes, you invest, you give...etc...your money ends up being used instead of being hoarded...which is not a terrible thing. As long as you don't lose it...having to use it has no negative repercussions.

I understand the idea that the economy was strong under Clinton and everyone wants to talk about how things went just fine under those tax rates...and it's true. BUT...as a Fiscally responsible Libertarian, I cannot accept higher taxes without a balanced budget and a plan to pay down the national debt..I just can't.

Originally posted by hawkiye
reply to post by samlf3rd

 

Apparently math and history isn't your strong suit... Help the deficit? ROTFLMAO! The money they will collect is a drop in the ocean and not one damn cent will go to deficit reduction they will continue to raise the debt ceiling like they have always done! And yes this has been tried before and failed every time!

You people that believe this nonsense are insane and have no clue how things work you won't get it till your living under a bridge and most of you still won't get it, you'll still be blaming all "those evil rich people" Sigh!

edit on 11-11-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)

You claim people like me are "insane" and "have no clue how things work"....so instead of insulting us...

Why not educate us.

Tell us what we need to know.

Originally posted by kaylaluv
To raise taxes on the rich would be a minor inconvenience for the rich.

If the government wouldn't waste money and overspend, then no one would be threatened with having their earned money taken away from them.

think of if as the patriotic duty of the rich.

That sounds a lot like a left winger trying to push his/her 'moral values' onto the right. Something the left keeps saying the right shouldn't do to them with abortion and 'God' and all. Think about it for a bit ...

All the studies show that when the rich pay more taxes, things get better, not worse. It's really a no-brainer.

All the studies I've seen on TV show that if the rich were forced to hand over their money to the state, then it wouldn't do anything to help the economy. SPENDING CONTROL is what is needed .. not handing more money over to the government to misuse (like they always do).