States petitioning to secede from union

reply to post by antonia

It's funny you brought up capitalism after I made this point which had nothing to do with it:

Originally posted by MasonicFantom
I'm glad you're so approving of a communistic way of life. It seems several here are. Someday you too can be working in factories with suicide nets for 18 hours a day and, if you save up for a few months, can afford that purse and book in your avatar.

Originally posted by antonia
China is communist in name only. It's economy is capitalism to it's core.

It's as if, subconsciously, you realized what I explained described something that's far from capitalistic. You do know there's suicide nets at Chinese factories and that people work 18 hour days for pennies an hour, right? Do you want to be one of those people who is born in that position...and will die in that position? Answer that please, even if you like to think that caste systems are very capitalistic. I can find some nice documentaries about the average Chinese man's life, if you want.

Capitalism is an economic system that is based on private ownership of the means of production and the creation of goods or services for profit.[1] Other elements central to capitalism include competitive markets, wage labor and capital accumulation.[2]

1) There is not much private ownership. The government in China owns most of the property. Look up Chinese property law.
2) Goods and services are (largely) created for foreign corporate profits and for Chinese government profits, not for the citizens.
3) "Competitive market" - only in supplying slave labor for foreign industries.
4) "Wage labor" yep, just enough to keep them alive at the factory but not enough to afford a bus to their grandfather's hovel.

Originally posted by pikestaff

Originally posted by Thepump
They should kick out the liberals and reinstate slavery

Americans still are slaves, wage slaves, debt slaves, political slaves. Slaves to the TV.

And muslims are slaves to a 7th century misogynistic death cult, the Chinese are slaves to their communist overlords, half of sub-Shaharan Afirca are slaves to hunger and poverty, European's are slaves of their socialist masters and their history of Imperialism, the Venezuelans are slaves of Chavez, likewise Cubans and Castro....etc etc etc,.

In other words, go cry emo kid. 8>D

Originally posted by HabiruThorstein

Originally posted by pikestaff

Originally posted by Thepump
They should kick out the liberals and reinstate slavery

Americans still are slaves, wage slaves, debt slaves, political slaves. Slaves to the TV.

And muslims are slaves to a 7th century misogynistic death cult, the Chinese are slaves to their communist overlords, half of sub-Shaharan Afirca are slaves to hunger and poverty, European's are slaves of their socialist masters and their history of Imperialism, the Venezuelans are slaves of Chavez, likewise Cubans and Castro....etc etc etc,.

In other words, go cry emo kid. 8>D

Americans are slaves to their mass media popular govt obama admin and night time television

reply to post by Grimpachi


Most energy subsidiaries are for nuclear power and, recently, alternative energy.

But aside from that, Texas practically holds a monopoloy on oil fields in the lower 48. It wouldn't necessarily be Texas that is forced to make deals with private companies as much as it would be the other way around. Subsidiaries don't make oil drilling a free endeavor, so Texas could always undercut whatever the federal government is doing, although that wouldn't be necessary because if Texas allowed statewide drilling for oil and gas (with no EPA), companies, foreign and domestic, would flock to it for resource control. It would be a akin to the gold rush.

Originally posted by Komonazmuk

Originally posted by MasonicFantom

Originally posted by Komonazmuk

Originally posted by MasonicFantom
And it's not like there wouldn't be government. The states will have their own government and people will be more responsible and accountable. It's a great idea. However, if this petition succeeds, Texas is maybe the best state I see that can take it from theory to actuality.

edit on 11-11-2012 by MasonicFantom because: (no reason given)

Hope you love Mexico

Hope you love China.

-says the guy with the anime avatar-

? Are we not talking about Texas succeeding? Do you realize this country is at our border?

Weak retort my fellow Texan, I'd expect better.

And considering roughly 34% of our exports go to Mexico, you'd think this would increase if such were to happen. China? 5.5%

edit on 11-11-2012 by Komonazmuk because: (no reason given)

Bahahahaha, oh the irony!


Btw..ah hem, thaz a Japanese anime character.
Don't attack avatars or anime, they're innocent!

Anyway, it's all assumptions from non qualified ppl anyway.

Nobody has any better ideas..

Anyone remember how much money we owe China? Wonder when they're going to cash in on their debt?

These last few days have made me realize something. Have TPTB honestly eroded critical thinking and political/civil discourse to the point where this is even being suggested? Could this be the reason Obama was allowed to win? It is sad that people are talking about wanting to leave our country, and having to see folks here hurling insults and encouraging them.

reply to post by happykat39


Did anyone not notice that it isn't 'the State' that is petitioning to secede? It is some random individual that has started a petition on the White House site.

Has any state had a referendum on the issue?

Have they seriously debated in the the State Legislature?

Has any winning candidate for major office in the state made it part of his/her platform and are they in a position of power that enables them to forward that agenda?

I'm pretty sure the answer is no to all questions.

The entire story is a beat up. A silly, time wasting, beat up.

reply to post by LightWarrior11


Indeed. Nobody is a qualified expert here and I got better things to do tonight than harass the help.

Peace.

reply to post by DarthOej

Have TPTB honestly eroded critical thinking and political/civil discourse to the point where this is even being suggested?

TPTB. That's a strange acronym for Faux News/Beck/Limbaugh/Coulter/Palin/etc.

Originally posted by rnaa
reply to post by happykat39

 

Did anyone not notice that it isn't 'the State' that is petitioning to secede? It is some random individual that has started a petition on the White House site.

Has any state had a referendum on the issue?

Have they seriously debated in the the State Legislature?

Has any winning candidate for major office in the state made it part of his/her platform and are they in a position of power that enables them to forward that agenda?

I'm pretty sure the answer is no to all questions.

The entire story is a beat up. A silly, time wasting, beat up.

Despite the fact that this is not a "state" issue yet, the fact that so many here with so many differing opinions on the subject are posting replies makes it a legitimate subject for discussion.

Also, I put up a reply that seems to have gotten lost in a pi$$ing match a couple of pages back so I am going to link to it HERE for anyone interested in seeing the position I have adopted after reading many of the dissenting views posted here.

Originally posted by rnaa
reply to post by DarthOej

 

Have TPTB honestly eroded critical thinking and political/civil discourse to the point where this is even being suggested?

TPTB. That's a strange acronym for Faux News/Beck/Limbaugh/Coulter/Palin/etc.

Schultz, Maddow, Olberman when he was with NBC. More like the ones who own the networks they are featured on. The media arm of their criminal enterprise anyway. Doesn't matter what color tie the guy is wearing, the point is to get you to despise the other side, and immediately dismiss any point they bring up.


You are either a marxist, flag burning liberal or a fascist, bible thumping conservative.

No EPA, = No Clean Water, No Clean Air. (Try and pretend the oil men and corporations would give a damn about your quality of life with out the EPA... go on I'll be laughing over here.)
No more nuclear fuel for the nuclear reactors. (Texas doesn.t make it's own fuel and would be stuck with the dead rods too.)
The Current Droughts, that are likely to get worse, will not have any external aid to offset damages.
Insignificant policing of the border, which would get worse as the Cartels moved east.
No free intra-state shipping, (Or it'd get more expensive.)
More Border hassles and import hassles including tarrifs for all goods coming out of Texas, and likely into it.
All the military funds that flow into Texas from the Federal Armed Forces & Service members would go away.
Then there is water, there would have to be a treaty drawn up before the USA would likely let the rivers flow freely.
Air travel, you think the TSA is bad for going from Dallas to El Paso is bad, try going to Kansas after that.
Customs Fees!

Then there is the health issue, CDC, and national health services would get prioritized to the non-ceding states.
Let's not forget the sudden rush of population coming into Texas, every twit with a hate on for the USA would flock in, not to mention the criminals as well.

I live in Texas and I am not dumb enough to even think its even possible for Texas to make it without the rest of the nation, and remain Texas. I'm not going to live feudal state where some right wing nut job with a bad interpretation from the bible gets to tell my family how to live; or that thinks they have a say in how my daughter should grow up.

Frankly though, I don't think most Texans are stupid enough to go for succession.
But I could be wrong.
M.

reply to post by Destinyone


Calif & Texas might be.

reply to post by happykat39

Despite the fact that this is not a "state" issue yet, the fact that so many here with so many differing opinions on the subject are posting replies makes it a legitimate subject for discussion.

Discuss all you want, I have no problem with that, but the title of the thread is "States petitioning to secede from union", and it isn't the States, it is just some random internet guy.

The thread is premised on a lie in order to draw a sensationalist response. I sick to death of these kinds of propaganda lies. It has gotten completely out of hand. Lies after lie, worse and worse and worse.

Did you not get the memo about how crap like this completely fooled the Romney campaign into thinking that they actually had a chance to win the election? They get trapped in an echo chamber of random internet blogs trying to out sensationalize each other and amplifying lies. Romney even let one of the worst offenders, a proven liar and poison pen propagandist blogger, on his plane in the last couple of weeks of the election.

You are either a marxist, flag burning liberal or a fascist, bible thumping conservative.

reply to post by DarthOej


You forgot the third option: a marxist/fascist/Muslim/Jewish New World Order puppet.

reply to post by rnaa


FYI - The thread title was a copy and paste from one of the articles on the subject. If you want to continue to spout your garbage about my intent would you please go away. I posted this thread because I thought it was relevant and interesting, not to gain false glory from it. If you don't like it you don't have to read it, its that simple.

Contrary to what others are saying, it is quite hypocritical of our federal government to say secession is treason and not allow it to occur, since this is the very thing they fought against Britain. They wanted separate but equal station, to quote Jefferson. The fact that the federal government had become too corrupt and pervasive, effectively nullifying states' rights in certain instances, is a major part of the Civil War.

It is even worse today, the strength of the federal government that is. This is obvious when we get laws handed down to us like the Patriot Act, and so many others, that are unConstitutional in their very nature. When the federal government is not obeying the rule of law, ie the Constitution, why in the world should any state want to remain under such an openly hypocritical government? It is ridiculous.

Although I already know that the federal government will never allow any state to secede peacefully, so we will likely only see this occur through combat of some kind, which right now not many people would subscribe to that notion. Although who knows what the state of the US government will be like in the future? The corruption that is present now will likely increase, so we may see some crazy stuff in the coming decades. Of course if we last past this year, lol.

As has been pointed out, this is a non-story.

Some BK Randoms started some online petitions (that's right; not the state governments - all it takes is just one disgruntled person with an internet connection) that so far have only received a few hundred to a few thousand signatures.

Even if, for example, the Louisiana petition got 25,000 signatures and was sent to the White House, it would just be laughed off. And rightly so.

Also let's not treat these states like monoliths. In Louisiana, 40% of voters in the Presidential election voted for Obama, so I'm going to assume that 40% wouldn't really want to secede over his election. And of the 57% that voted for Romney, we know that not all of them (not even a tiny fraction of them, is more like) want to up and leave the country because they lost. And that's just voters. Another guess, but I'm going to go ahead and say that the apolitical non-voting public would be even less inclined to get on board with something as radical as secession. It should be obvious to everyone outside the far, far right wing fringe's echo chamber that secession would be hugely unpopular and unsuccessful.

Besides the overwhelming pressure from the federal government, any states wanting to leave the union would also face a surprising amount of internal resistance that I don't think many secessionists have really factored in or paid attention to.

Basically, secession is not a viable option, there will be no civil war, and anyone who says differently is the emotional equivalent of a little kid who wants to run away from home because they don't like the rules their parents make. They're just making empty threats.

more business would flock to the southern states (because of much less regulation and taxes)

Did you consider that after your states secede that a lot of people in the remaining US states might boycott their businesses because they left?

Also southern states like Texas are going to run out of fresh water soon which would put a big kink in their plans and force them to trade oil for water- if the North will agree to give them any water, which is unlikely.

15,000 signatures and counting.