States petitioning to secede from union

reply to post by Hefficide


do you have any links to the person and site that started this petition?

I was searching and all I could find was it originating from the White House.

No petition to secceed would be posted on the federal govt site and promoted.

This is nothing more than a info and intel gathering to get names of potentials to go after when the gun bans go into effect. They start the battle by first gather info on who and where to attack first.

Don't sign this petition you'll be on that list.

reply to post by jcarpenter




Awfully pessimistic, partially true but never true of all.
As I like to say, not for me but for the good people, the innocent and the children, fight.

reply to post by ChesterJohn


When the petition first appeared it included a last name for the person who started it. I see that has now been redacted or omitted for some reason.

Given that fact - I'll withdraw from providing any more of the information I Googled about the person who filed it.

~Heff

Originally posted by Hefficide

Originally posted by ajay59
So can I interpret your remarks as: It was only a mere peasant therefore a joke? If this is way off base, please excuse me but the two look very similar to me.

edit on 11-11-2012 by ajay59 because: (no reason given)

If this was in response to me saying that the guy is not a politician. It has nothing at all to do with peasantry. What I mean is that he's just a guy - not a spokesperson for a broader base. He's not a community leader. I would suspect that he's probably one of those folks who makes about $250,000.00 per year and is now ready to start a civil war because he might have to give up one of his jet skis or some such.

It's like this. I live in Georgia. If I write a letter to the Chinese government declaring war upon them - I might actually get a few thousand people to agree with me and to sign onto that letter... but the letter carries no weight or authority. I cannot declare war on another nation because I am not "the people". I am a person. My voice matters only insomuch as others voices also do. Only when a majority share the same voice, in our society, do their words take on the power of "We, The People". I'm entitled to my opinion, but I have no right, at all, to impose that opinion upon others.

~Heff

heff,

making $250,000 per year is not a lot of money in the economy we have been living in the last ten years. That would barely support a family of five w/taxes, groceries, bills, mortgage, car payments (usually 2). Those who make $250,000 per year are barely Middle middle class. and if the economy keeps going it will become the new poverty level and quite quickly at that.

There are some who make a million a year and are barely Upper middle class. The minimum Poverty level is $85,000 even if you made 150,000 you are barely middle class.

but to get back on topic.

This is not a true to life event this is a Washington Administration info and intel gathering technique so they can plan their next battle against the people. Not to just go after wealth but guns and anything else they want.

beware

Originally posted by Grimpachi
reply to post by happykat39

 

I doubt it is true however I would be fine with it. Louisiana and Missouri take more federal money than any other state...

Interesting statement. Is it based on data from 2011 or '12?...

According to this 2010 census fiscal report pdf, Louisiana is the 8th 'neediest' in terms of fed funds (behind AK, WY, DE, NM, VT, ND, & NY). Missouri is 20th--right in the average range.

source mainpage

Originally posted by happykat39
So far I have come across news of three states that have filed petitions ......

Not quite true that - the discussion has not shown that any STATES have filed any petitions at all.

Some people have filed petitions...but let's not confuse the 2.

reply to post by happykat39


It's interesting how separatism is growing in most every country in the world. The US with Louisiana is an addition to a long list of "wannabe" separatist states/provinces. Look at the list:

List of active separatist movements in North America

List of active separatist movements in Africa

List of active separatist movements in Europe

List of active separatist movements in Asia

List of active separatist movements in Oceania

List of active separatist movements in South America

reply to post by ChesterJohn


The statistics disagree with your assertions about poverty and what middle classed means...


Source


Source

This, IMO, is part of the great disconnect in our society currently. Those with a lot of money have lost perspective as to what poverty and affluence are.

~Heff

There are a of pros and cons here and a lot of name calling as well. But let me, after reading through this thread again, toss in my two cents.

Will any state actually secede?

I don't think this is about secession, rather it is about sending a message to Washington. But this time, with the help of the internet, it has gotten much more attention than in previous years. Add to that the number of people who are tired of supporting a welfare state and you have the makings of a grass roots movement that could take off. The big question is, when and where, if at all.

I don't think anyone here, regardless of which side of the issue they are on, can deny that big changes are coming. And it does not matter which of us is right about what that change will be; no one is going to like the results. The death of a nation, the birth of a new nation; both death and birth are painful. And both can be long drawn out affairs. And if we just coast along then we have to wonder what use the federal agencies like the Social Security Administration, FEMA, the IRS and others have for 1.5 billion bullets, mass grave style caskets, various bases and facilities converted to detention style camps, and ail the new police state powers granted to various agencies, that are not really police agencies, by presidential edict.

The states that secede will go broke for lack of government money.

Not really, the federal government takes a ton of money and after wringing all the graft it can out of it passes a half ton, at best, back to the states. And a lot of that money is for pork barrel projects that are not really needed for any other purpose than to get a congressman re elected.

A newly formed government with sound fiscal policies should be able to do just fine and actually be able to lower taxes on it's citizens. The danger here is that the people who would form the new government are still of the tax and spend mentality that has gotten us into trouble already. The politics of the federal government as relates to the states, if carried over to the new government, would be reflected in the new governments relation to the districts in the newly seceded state. It is said that it is hard to teach an old dog new tricks but if a state did secede the politicians of that state would have to learn some very new tricks and in a big hurry or they would soon be right back to where they started before secession.

I, for one, would not be holding my breath waiting for them to learn those new tricks. In fact, the only new tricks I would expect them to learn are ways to screw things up on a state level that had previously been reserved only for the federal government.

The death of conservatism.

A few here have commented that conservatism is dead and the new socialism is the wave of the future. They believe that the welfare state needs to be expanded so that the rich are "paying their fair share" to help support the less fortunate. I have only three short comments to make in reply to that.

1 - There are none so blind as those who refuse to see.

2 - Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

3 - The social service organizations like the salvation Army and the churches were already winning the war on poverty when the federal government declared their own "war on poverty". The result has been a bureaucratic boondoggle that has actually produced a multi generational sub culture of people dependent on the government. In other words, the "war on poverty" has produced pretty much the same results as the war on drugs; to wit, a system that perpetuates the very thing it was designed to eliminate so the PTB can maintain their positions of power and authority for their own personal profit.

Will any good at all come of this movement?

The question now becomes, will there be any reform of the federal government as a direct, or indirect, result of the secession movement? Again, I won't be holding my breath waiting. The way things are going the federal government can pretty much just thumb their collective noses at us and continue with business as usual. I fully expect the current disastrous fiscal policies of our government to lead to a collapse of the dollar. That would open the door for the real PTB to institute a one world currency which is what they want so they can more completely control world finances. That would then make the world bankers the de facto world government.

reply to post by happykat39


Source

This is a list of official or otherwise noteworthy proposals for dividing existing US states into multiple states. It does not specifically address statewide or other movements to secede from the United States.

The word secession can refer to political separation at different levels of government organization, from city to state to country; this list focuses on secession from (rather than by) U.S. states, particularly to form new U.S. states.

Article IV of the United States Constitution provides for the creation of new states of the Union, requiring that any such creation be approved by the legislature of the affected state(s), as well as the United States Congress.

Since the adoption of the U.S. Constitution, four states have been created from parts of an existing state: Maine (from Massachusetts), West Virginia (from Virginia), Kentucky (also from Virginia), and Vermont (from New York and New Hampshire)—though New York's claim to Vermont was weak, as it was asked for its consent and Vermont was essentially an independent republic until 1791.

In the case of West Virginia, it formed itself as the legitimate government of Virginia within the Union, then essentially gave itself permission to leave Virginia in order to avoid annexation by the Confederacy. Many other state secession attempts resulted from internal divisions over the formation of the Confederate States of America. While majorities of states may have voted to secede and join the Confederacy, or remain in the Union, even in those years regional and cultural ties prompted portions of the populations of those states to strongly favor the other side.

Since the creation of West Virginia in 1863, no states have been successfully created from parts of already existing states.[1]

reply to post by UFCG2012AFHS


Interesting, thank you for posting that.

Originally posted by TFCJay
Sounds like a little boy running away from home because he don't like mama and papa's rules.

Thats the thing that is so absolutely backwards about this country. Mama and papa, and their rules, were conceived and created BY "we the people". Thats right, people like you and me. So if you believe in a nanny government that is going to take care of you, and in the process take control of your life, it is VERY far removed from what our founding fathers put into place for us, and with good reason. We ARE supposed to be the mama, and the papa, and we no longer are. Thats what is wrong with this country, and that is why liberty minded people are seceding from it.

And its not 'succeeding' as I saw in another post... people need to get their vocabulary right.

Can the Union maintain itself? I think it can

In regards to Texas seceding...the U.S. would never allow it. It is too vital to our nation for us to just let them walk away. The U.S. military would be sent in to secure that state and protect federal property. So all this talk is really a waste of time. Fantasy land talk for the teabaggers.

"some folks" does not equal "states"

My analogy: The dog pen is overrun by fleas. Remove the dogs from the fleas, and the fleas die of starvation! I am sure that this simple analogy is easily understood by all. For those who don't get it, dogs = the people / fleas = government.

IT'S LEGIT!!!!!!!!!!!!! 15 states are now going for it!

I'm ready to succeed from this bull# AND KILL SOME COMMIES.

LOOK AT ALL YOU COMMIES TRYING TO SAY THIS IS A HOAX AND NOT STAR IT, LOL, HOPE YOU'RE GOOD AT DODGING.

1,500 THUMBS UP GIVEN JUST TO THIS COMMENT.

Your blatant disregard for the practice of RESPONSIBLE journalism is what's wrong. The mainstream media are no longer reporting facts, but instead, you SKEW people toward the left by covering up stories, lying, and kissing the feds behinds, probably because you're being paid off. Your news reporting and news reporters like you are part of what is tearing this country apart. You didn't even bother to mention that those signatures have grown to over 8,000 in Texas alone in ONLY 24 hours. Your puppeteers and ilk are racist as hell by treating black Americans as if they are victims. They are not African anything. They are just American, and they have a right to self determination just as much as anyone else! Your type has done nothing but cause division and racism by "hate crime this and that" making blacks look like they have to play a race card to get ahead when in fact, the majority don't want to listen to that garbage anymore and just want to live their lives. Everyone is SICK of it, understand?? You and the federal government needs to lose the corruption and get your arrogant heads out of your asses! I hope all of the states secede and with that, shuts down you and your supporters of IRRESPONSIBLE journalism!!!

READ ALL THE TOP COMMENTS -- AND THOSE ARE EVEN COMING FROM MSN.

Originally posted by howardstearn
In regards to Texas seceding...the U.S. would never allow it. It is too vital to our nation for us to just let them walk away. The U.S. military would be sent in to secure that state and protect federal property. So all this talk is really a waste of time. Fantasy land talk for the teabaggers.

Not if the movement becomes large and a big part of the next election.Not sure that would happen.

I think the Democrats would be delighted to get rid of Texas...and the GOP likewise with California!!

I know this is very difficult for many to grasp but these people do not wish to part with the United States of America. It is the UNITED STATES OF AMERICA whom they wish to give the slip. Big difference!