States petitioning to secede from union

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posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 07:59 PM
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just checked whitehouse.gov

The signatures for TX are now almost 42,000 and it is past the requirement within just a few days. The deadline to meet the requirement is Dec. 9. Wonder how many it will be by then.




posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 08:11 PM
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This is madness of the highest order. America did break up the Union once and it was a total failure. It solved nothing and created a bloody war of brother against brother and father against son. It will lead to another civil war. All these petitions will be 100% rejected by the Federal government and laughed at; for good reason.

Breaking up the Union, at this point, will lead to chaos the world over. Yeah, the American empire is a huge problem and something all Americans should work to end but breaking up the Union will not get it done. The world depends on America way too much currently for the Union to become unstable as a unified Republic. It would be better for the states to push states right harder and work to put the Federal government back under the control of the states.




posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by freedomwv
 


It was a failure when slavery was injected as an issue. The original premise of the war was State Vs Federal rights. When slavery was injected as a point of the war most of everyone in the north was on the bus for that. Civil War would of been successful for the south if it wasn't for the Emancipation Proclamation.

You can go down the street today and ask a number of people what was the civil war about and they will say slavery. It is part of the indoctrination we received after the war. The victors of the war ALWAYS write the history books.

Virginia joined the south not because of the State V Federal issue or slavery. They believed the federal government does not and should not raise an army to march to the states who wish to leave the union.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 08:17 PM
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reply to post by freedomwv
 


It was a failure when slavery was injected as an issue. The original premise of the war was State Vs Federal rights. When slavery was injected as a point of the war most of everyone in the north was on the bus for that. Civil War would of been successful for the south if it wasn't for the Emancipation Proclamation.

You can go down the street today and ask a number of people what was the civil war about and they will say slavery. It is part of the indoctrination we received after the war. The victors of the war ALWAYS write the history books.

Virginia joined the south not because of the State V Federal issue or slavery. They believed the federal government does not and should not have the right to raise an army to march to the states who wish to leave the union.
edit on 12-11-2012 by CajunBoy because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 08:20 PM
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Originally posted by freedomwv
This is madness of the highest order. America did break up the Union once and it was a total failure. It solved nothing and created a bloody war of brother against brother and father against son. It will lead to another civil war. All these petitions will be 100% rejected by the Federal government and laughed at; for good reason.

Breaking up the Union, at this point, will lead to chaos the world over. Yeah, the American empire is a huge problem and something all Americans should work to end but breaking up the Union will not get it done. The world depends on America way too much currently for the Union to become unstable as a unified Republic. It would be better for the states to push states right harder and work to put the Federal government back under the control of the states.



That video is a joke. Has nothing to do with any of that crap. Tired of people saying its a racist thing.
edit on 12-11-2012 by planefixer because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 08:27 PM
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They think it is racist because it is bashed into our head from the start of history class in elementary school that it was about slavery!

These petitions are not about slavery but State Vs Federal!

40 something states in 2009 signed Decelerations of Sovereignty. They did that just before the Civil War as well it is history repeating itself, the thing is though this time there is no slaves so they toss around "racism"
edit on 12-11-2012 by CajunBoy because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by CajunBoy
 


Okay...here we go...again.

Of course the civil war was about slavery. For years the southern states had been voting as a unified block in Congress against any kind of slavery reform or phase out. The entire nation knew that the southern states did not want to give up slavery.

Yeah, the civil war was about states rights...the right for the states to maintain slavery! The Federal government wanted to rid the nation of slavery and the southern states knew it.

I am also aware of the economic situation at the time as well. For the most part, the southern states lacked the ability to refine raw goods. The factories and refining plants were mostly in the north. The Federal government was fully aware of this problem. Although, the southern states would simply not budge on the slavery issue to allow any kind of production reform to happen. This situation went on for years until it finally came to a head.

Wow...I cannot believe that I actually have to still explain the civil war in the 21st century.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 08:48 PM
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No state would want to secede if the balance of power still existed on the federal level and if each of the states fought for their Tenth Amendment (to the U.S. Constitution) sovereignty. It's a vertical check and balance for cases where the executive, legislative, and executive branches fail to keep each other in alignment.

We have a vast majority of federally elected and appointed officials who are in office for everything other than service to country. Many of those serve (practically bow down to) many masters, including globalists enterprises and coalitions bent on destroying the republic for a so-called better, more sustainable territory within the one world government.

Wish I could say this was just fantasizing about George Orwell's 1984, but sadly news article after news article suggests the fictitious nightmare is now coming to its own reality. That is, unless, one sticks with the sanitized, state-approved main media outlets before the alternative media gets snuffed out.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 09:08 PM
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reply to post by planefixer
 


Well, the fact remains that seceding from the Union carries with it a lot of baggage and history which no sane American is going to let pass lightly.

Breaking up the Union is a very serious matter. The global effect would be massive. As much as some Americans would like to believe that the United States is an island separated from the rest of the world; it is simply not true. I live in that magical place called the rest of the world. I can attest to the actual material effect breaking up the American Union would have on the rest of the world. It would create total chaos over night.

There are US military bases all over the world. There are US companies all over the world doing business at just about every level one could think of. There are global shipping and trade routes which depend on the US to operate peacefully. There are US citizens, myself included, who live all across the globe. There are many international agreements which the US has with many nations who depend on the US remaining stable enough to keep the world moving forward.

If the Union breaks up all those those things would be put into instant chaos. There would be a instant conflict in the chain of command within the US military. I am sure rouge elements, globally, would form within the US military which no one would be able to control. Global shipping and trade routes would be totally out of line with normal operating process thus creating the prefect situation for high seas piracy by any number of groups or nations. Most international agreements the US has with other nations would have to be put under direct guidance of the UN in order to prevent a total breakdown of global diplomacy. All US citizens living in other nations would have their lives put at risk due to the weakness of the US embassies to ensure their passports.

It would be a very bad situation. During the first attempt to break up the Union the world was a very different place. America was not a superpower(empire) and it`s control grid and influence on the world was very limited. A civil war in the United States did not really have a big effect on the rest of the world. Now, a break up of the Union would place the world at high risk for World War and a total breakdown of human society.

It is overall a very bad idea and dangerous agenda to push for.

The states should retake control of the US Federal government instead of trying to plunge the world into total chaos.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:23 PM
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As one of the, at the moment, 46,545 signers of the Texas petition I think if roughly half the states of the Union secede it will give the rest of the world a break from those in Washington who wish to pursue empire at the cost of the blood of our sons and daughters and the outrageous fortunes appropriated by them through taxation without credible representation. By the time the dust settles and we establish trade relations with the consumers of the other half, who, no doubt will pay for their goods and services with welfare checks, the rest of the world could have a chance to regain its breath at least in a small way.

The reason we're in such a fix financially, educationally, morally and just about every other way is because we have reached a point of stagnation in all of these endevors. There's nowhere to grow and too many people have been idled by layoffs, lack of inspiration due to a complete lack of new horizons to aspire to. There's nowhere left to grow and growth is what America has been based on since the beginning. When growth ends our nation will and IS going through its death throws.

All these petitions will do, those that garner the required 25,000 sigs, is make them required reading for some bureacrats in D.C. that will automatically say "No, go back to your piss-ant jobs, if you have one, and hope and pray we don't send the IRS after your a** for being so insolent." BUT on the crazy, outside chance that this does start an avalanche of secessions there is no need for any type of shots being fired from either direction. What industry that there is left is no longer concentrated in the North but food production is concentrated in the much more conservative states. The more liberal states all tend to be broke so any currency they produce will be akin to Zimbabwe bucks - toilet paper is more expensive - and we can probably buy them like China has bought us over time. Texas has quite a bit of oil, we still have a few cows and goats, haven't sold them all and things seem to be getting better with the drouth conditions. All and all I think the states requesting secession, with the exception of New York, seem to be in better shape than the others that cling to this shoddy excuse for a ruling administration. If we have to we can always annex Mexico and hunt down the drug cartel members (Texas Parks and Wildlife can issue the hunting tags and bounties can be given on any CIA, FBI or other alphabet crew member found working with them) after we finish carpet bombing their strongholds where we know they are. Hey, we want those Fast and Furious guns back for OUR arsenal!
edit on 12-11-2012 by Ollie769 because: Just adding to the wet dream...



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:39 PM
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Originally posted by Nephalim

Originally posted by VitriolAndAngst

Originally posted by MasonicFantom
Texas already has nearly 9,000 signatures after just over a day. 16,000 more required. It's a done deal IMO.
edit on 11-11-2012 by MasonicFantom because: (no reason given)


Wait what? There are millions of people in Texas -- how could 25,000 people decide such a momentous thing?


Exactly. This petition and the rest mean jack squat even with the required amount of sigs.


I think that is our specialty here; talking about Jack and Squat.


I'm watching the Daily Show right now and John Stewart is talking to Huckabee about the ONE Black Panther that Fox News spent 21 programs freaking out about. The last "conversation" I had was about the nonsense of the NAACP handing out water and "intimidating" because they wore t-Shirts. There were "accusations" of them promoting Democratic voting,... but we all know how easy those are to make.

BTW -- Huckabee seems so much more thoughtful and considerate now that I watched Santorum and the rest during the election. I don't know if I've lowered the bar, or maybe when he's not having to campaign with his bible on his sleeve, he comes across a lot better -- anywho, just seemed a bit more genuine than the rest.

... but back to my rant -- the NEXT thing, without even looking at the front page that I'm sure I'll be "discussing" is the Petraus affair -- as if it all leads to that attack on the Libya embassy. As if Petraus doesn't have to testify and if you were extorting him to keep quiet -- well, throwing out the mistress information BEFORE testimony kind of defeats that purpose.

But these things don't have to make sense. Secession, or the "PANIC" associated with the one guy who just happens to be black being all threatening. I mean 350 million people -- you freak out about one kook? There isn't any endorsement of this one guy. He doesn't have some governor on speed dial. He represents nobody and nothing.

The reason people focus on the one trivial evidence of their fears, is that they are looking for an excuse. They don't know WHY they want to secede because Obama won the election -- they just want to be in a place where Obama is not the president. IF they claim Socialism -- well, we could talk all day how the Health Care bill was a handout to insurance companies, but it's a way to STOP the freeloaders -- but it's the exact opposite of Socialism and was when the Republicans presented this idea as an opposition to Hillary's proposals way back int he 90's. Obama is to the right of where the Republicans were about 14 years ago.

I'm sick of debating nonsense with silly people. There is no way to make them feel comfortable. They will never be happy. Ever. They are looking for an excuse because they've paid good money for a bunker and dang it, society has to end and let them get off of this forced march into the future.

Libya was a cover up because they hate Obama -- it can't possibly be someone with an agenda completely derived from Crazy Muslim Anger even though that's what they talk about every day and now they've got an example from amongst 1.5 billion Muslims. The NAACP and the Panthers are shutting down elections because a black man can't win and they are not a racist but you know that's a total about 15 people they've decided to turn into a conspiracy and movement. Everything happens for a reason, and that reason is about being an oppressed white man.

All the dots only need two points with 6 degrees of separation between Obama or something Liberal and it's automatically part of the conspiracy and proof of what people wanted to be true to rationalize what they hated all along.

As time goes on, it seems to take less and less to rattle the same people into a hot lather. The conspiracies are based on more and more trivial things. It's gone beyond ridiculous.



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 11:24 PM
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I just found this. I think it says a lot about why people are upset with the current federal government and how our elections are run.





posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 11:42 PM
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rt.com... curiouser and curiouser



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 12:14 AM
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Originally posted by HauntWok
This article is from WND. The same people that constantly perpetrate the Birther bull, so I am less than confident that it's real.

Frankly I wouldn't mind if a few states left the union. Most of the states that seem to want to do this are a huge drain on taxpayer money anyway. So let them leave. And make sure that any people wishing to leave along with them are allowed. Of course never to return.

Then we just don't trade with the states that left the union.


When will you people realize THERE IS NO MONEY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It is all fraud. Everything is already paid for....... by the human chattel paper. It is all bookkeeping now. We are all worth milions and are traded on the international stock market. What is it going to take to get you people to pull your heads out of your rear ends?????????


The Money Order For GoldThe Money Order For Gold
The Democracy on April 5, 1933 issued an Executive Order removing the gold
from circulation as a currency. This Executive Order served the same function as a
money order to the United States People for the purchase of all the gold in society. Gold
is substance and was used in the "payment of debt." When the President wrote the
money order for all of the gold to be taken out of the system and placed with the
government, the government then removed the people's ability to "pay a debt" because
they didn't have any money to pay with. The golden rule is usually summed up in "HE
who has the gold makes the rules", well sounds mosaic to Me. Here is another part of
the golden rule they don't tell you about "He who has the gold pays the bills." They got
the money; they make the payments. The government then became indebted to the
people to pay all of the debts because the government was holding all of the money.
You ever heard the phrase "All money is loaned into existence", well that is right
because they are borrowing it from Me. The money order debited the people by
removing the gold from their possession, which in turn credited the United States
Government with all of the newly held gold in their possession. This exchange is
halfway completed because the gold was taken from the people and nothing had yet
been returned. The people now need something in this exchange to balance out the
ledger and re-credit their original holdings. To complete the exchange, the United States
Government debited them selves with a promissory note (the promise of Abraham),
which in return re-credited the people. This was the executing order from the President
killing the legal capacity of the Government to control the people. The government was
then dead/debt (phonetically it sounds similar). Here is another interesting part. The
debtor always has the money because he is the one borrowing it, so when the President
wrote the money order which took the gold, they became the borrower/debtor, and that
is why there is a Public Debt, it is because they are borrowing the money from Us, the
Owner. What must happen now is the debt must be redeemed back to the original
owner. Here is the Executive Order (money order) that killed the government and made
them the ones liable for every debt they associate to. When you see "Executive" think,
"execute" and when you see "order," think "money order."
Because all the money was taken away in an executive order (money order), the
President is holding all the money that can pay the bills. Here is an example. A national
emergency occurs and an executive order is issued and money can now be sent to the
victims. Another example is when Mexico got money from the U.S. The Congress said
no but then the President by executive order, then sent the money. Another example is
when the prisons are running out of money, an executive order can be issued and now
the prisons get all the funding the need.


Did you read that?....... Here is another interesting part. The
debtor always has the money because he is the one borrowing it, so when the President
wrote the money order which took the gold, they became the borrower/debtor, and that
is why there is a Public Debt, it is because they are borrowing the money from Us, the
Owner.

HJR-192 of 1933, we are the creditor and the government is the debtor. We owe nothing, states owe nothing. It is all written off. The natural resources belong to all of us, it is our dominion, our domain. We own it but we don't claim it because we are too stupid to fight the corporations because we live in fear!!! Instituted by the government.

ALL states can secede from the union because they are all individual countries to begin with, that is why each state has a Governor/ (read - president) and a legislature. Why are poeple so damn dumb these days?



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 12:18 AM
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reply to post by freedomwv
 


The original 13th Amendment was removed from the Bill of Rights and the national slavery Amendment was inserted, what you know as the 13th today, it makes ALL of US slaves!!!! The Civil war was not about slavery completely. It was about control and unifying slavery nationally because people were not getting in line to comply with all that was going on. It's a long story but it's not just about slavery.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 05:21 AM
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reply to post by TXTriker
 


that's it just give the govt your name and address so they know where to send their drones, FBI or the UN to confiscate your guns.

Think people do you think a petition for secession for the state of Texas or any state would be found on a White House web page?

I thro not!
edit on 13-11-2012 by ChesterJohn because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 06:02 AM
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reply to post by ChesterJohn
 


Uh, yeah: petitions.whitehouse.gov... It is our right to petition the government. As a matter of fact there are many petitions there you may have an interest in signing.

I really like your Barney Fife avatar. Gotta steal that for future use.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 07:57 AM
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Duh. The United States has already had that. It was called the Civil War. It turned out badly for the secessionists.

Some people just cannot think of anything else but to repeat the past.

If you ask me such an attempt would be a colossal waste of lives, resources and energy. Not to mention our enemies overseas would see it as an opportunity to strike us as we as a nation would be weak and divided.

How would a new nation deal with China, for instance? Couldn't have a lot of power in the world, with its own little army and all.

Can't these guys think of anything new?



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 08:12 AM
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Originally posted by Destinyone
reply to post by happykat39
 


I think its a Hoax. No State is self sufficient enough to pull this off...

Des


No state is sufficient enough. Texas has the 15 largest economy in the world. Taxes has enough money to build there own missile defense system in a week and the money to buy pinches to "KILL" any bomb that attempts to enter into the state.

I have always written about ways to cripple the US Government in spy stories where I restored the Old Republic of the united states. I used electro magnetic pinches to cripple electronics on every us military base and "place of national" power. Then with about 10 grand you can build your own rocket efficient enough in a crowded environment to take out 50-100k people. If it came to civil war you would be surprised of what exactly a lot of states would be capable of. The south, as I live in the south and know, would not abandon their families. All southern military personnel are always going to choose state over government. Ties roots, where we come from and why and how we are here. That is why we survive.

Albeit the northern states are going to have more money, you dont know how to use your land to your advantage.

Sorry starting to rant and ramble that can happen.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 08:39 AM
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Originally posted by twoandthree
No state would want to secede if the balance of power still existed on the federal level and if each of the states fought for their Tenth Amendment (to the U.S. Constitution) sovereignty. It's a vertical check and balance for cases where the executive, legislative, and executive branches fail to keep each other in alignment.

We have a vast majority of federally elected and appointed officials who are in office for everything other than service to country. Many of those serve (practically bow down to) many masters, including globalists enterprises and coalitions bent on destroying the republic for a so-called better, more sustainable territory within the one world government.

Wish I could say this was just fantasizing about George Orwell's 1984, but sadly news article after news article suggests the fictitious nightmare is now coming to its own reality. That is, unless, one sticks with the sanitized, state-approved main media outlets before the alternative media gets snuffed out.


Remember 20 odd years ago when several governors and state Legislatures submitted tenth amendment resolutions to slow down federal encroachment? The resolutions, although legal and properly filed, were basically unknown to the people of those states because the media sat on it. So they were dissed by Washington, a few of the governors got their chops busted on trumped up charges (like Fife Symington of Arizona) and it went nowhere.


At least twelve states passed resolutions in 1994 calling on Congress to reduce or eliminate unfunded federal mandates. Others are lobbying Congress to enact mandate-relief legislation, and in some instances states are simply refusing to obey intrusive federal regulations regarding gun control, voter registration, abortion, and so forth. Kansas and South Dakota have even called for a constitutional convention to initiate an amendment to the Constitution prohibiting such mandates.12

The legislatures of eight states passed resolutions last year asserting state sovereignty and demanding that the national government stop violating the 10th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (which provides that "the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people"). It's expected that similar resolutions will be considered by more than twenty states during their 1995 legislative sessions.13 Several states are establishing legal-defense funds and filing lawsuits against the federal government for specific violations of the 10th Amendment.14 In the view of economics professor and columnist Walter E. Williams: "The 10th Amendment movement may be America's last chance to peacefully get Congress to obey the Constitution. [National] politicians have seriously underestimated public anger and are blind to the rebellion spreading across the land."15

www.nccs.net...

Then in 2007 a delegation of Indians went to Washington from SD to deliver a declaration of withdrawal from the US by the Lakota people whose treaties (contracts) have been systematically broken by the federal government since the 1800s. Talk about people who have the right to withdraw.

www.commondreams.org...

Their right to do this was even recognised by the UN, but the feds stuck their fingers in their collective ears and pretended it never happened. So it never happened.

But people think a few signatures on a petition will get someone's attention and eliminate their problems? Most of the ones signing these petitions don't even know what their problem is, much less how to fix it. Talk about going off half cocked.





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