Time to pay the Piper....

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posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 04:32 PM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


Since this change was enacted as a tax reduction, our governments debt has increased quite a bit. It is the addition of the middle class to this tax break that actually caused the national debt to increase because there are so many in that bracket. I don't think the rich should pay way higher a percentage either, but I think that the rate of fifteen percent should have limitations. Should a person who makes a hundred grand a year on investments pay a cheaper rate of fifteen percent than a miner who works hard for his money at a risky and dirty job while paying twenty+ percent on his federal taxes overall. Not in my book they shouldn't.
edit on 10-11-2012 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)




posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 04:38 PM
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None of the taxing makes sense, you have to first limit your budget. It's like say If I was working and made a certain amount and lived off credit to afford let's say a lawyer (defender) than I get a raise so I start adding more credit for my lawyer to go to say Isreal to fight (Defend) my position about something I find unfair (sound familiar) Just because I have a bigger paycheck, does it make sense to go living even more beyond my means? It's ridiculous. I have a job I figure my budget by what I am taking in and not a dime above, when the country runs that way, then it makes us more economically strong. Without cutting spending we're just sending all those taxes into oblivion, letting them fund more and more lavish things for something that they feel compelled to do, it's basically mind numbing.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 04:39 PM
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Originally posted by YourWIFI

That is what every Conservative and Right-winger of today wants!! They want the super-wealthy to get away without paying their fair-share percentage-wise in taxes while KNOWING that it will leave the working-class and middle-class to carry the burden. We already CARRY ENOUGH BURDEN while the wealthy wish to HAVE IT ALL in America, yet PAY NOTHING!!!!! UNACCEPTABLE!!!!

The Conservatives and the Right want CONSTANT WAR, yet they are the FIRST and the LOUDEST to scream from their rooftops when anyone suggest they pay more in taxes to PAY for it. Us commoners, We The People, are SICK TO DEATH OF WAR!!! We dont want it, yet you do, yet you dont want to pay a dime more in taxes!!

Todays Conservatives and the Right are PERFECTLY FINE if the taxes are raised on the rest of us and they twist and spread COMPLETE MISINFORMATION regarding the non-wealthy not paying taxes. Their silliness has been RIPPED APART so many times already, yet they think if they keep repeating it over and over again, that folks will believe it.
BUT, MOST OF AMERICA DIDNT FALL FOR THE CONSERVATIVES NONSENSE, and you EASILY LOST the election as you all campaigned on a foundation of nothing but LIES and FEAR from the start!!!!!

I keep in close contact with family and friends all over the world and these other countries see our Conservatives as the most BACKWARDS FOOLISH IDIOTIC folks on the planet. The Conservatives in America are making us all look like ASSES to the rest of the world. Its getting SICKENING.

You lost the election Conservatives, SUCK IT UP, stop WHINING, stop BLAMING everyone else, stop LYING, stop TWISTING charts and information for your agenda, and stop HATING the working class and middle-class Americans. Stop HATING everyone who doesnt agree with you all or look like you all.

America has voted and has said HELL NO to todays Conservative and Right-wing WHACK-JOBS!! GET OVER IT,

We The People of America have casted our VOTE and WON!!!! LIVE WITH IT!!!!

And thank GOODNESS we won so that we may continue FORWARD rather than BACKWARDS!!



edit on 10-11-2012 by YourWIFI because: (no reason given)





posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by DarthMuerte
I choose none of the above. I opt out. I can dismantle my business and just work for cash under the table. Why work to support those who will not work. I vote none of the above.


You can opt out, but that doesn't stop inflation...what do you do when gas is 7 bucks a gallon and cost of living doubles again or worst. I feel this will hit all of us one way or another...there is no avoiding it....sad to say.

Everyone will be down sizing one way or another, your opt out is just another form of downsizing too.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 04:55 PM
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Originally posted by charles1952
reply to post by earthalien50
 

It may be a small point, but I was struck by your use of 53% of the budget for defense. May I post something I put up in another thread?


Thanks for adding the video. My first impression is that they are trying to fool people. There's a lot of double counting and some questionable assumptions. May I suggest you check here: www.usgovernmentspending.com...
especially the table under the pie chart?

For the 2013 budget, the government is planning on spending 3803 billion dollars. Some of the figures include
Pensions..........879 billion
Health Care......916 billion
Welfare.............422 billion
Defense........... 901 billion
Education.........136 billion
Transportation..114 billion

I'm sorry, but I don't think the 53% figure from the video is anywhere near accurate.

With respect,
Charles1952




The military budget is only a part of the overall expense of the "war machine." This is how we are spending our tax dollars to support war:

Tomgram: Chris Hellman, $1.2 Trillion for National Security
edit on 11/10/2012 by earthalien50 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 05:01 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer

Tell ya what.

Lets return to 1999. Before the Bush tax cuts.

Lets have the same tax rate as 1999.

but

Lets also have the same spending budget as well.


It is a nice pipe dream to say the least...hehe

We will need those taxes and more.... Now that the election is over, Obama can finally stop the campaign propaganda that he can fix it all with a increase in the 250k plus group. I can't believe a single person fell for that, but hey it worked.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 05:08 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
Why should I pay for the errors of my ancestors? I didn't make this frikken mess, it started long ago. That is what is so damned wrong with the way our governments think. That they can spend more than they take in, who cares how many generations have to pay for it. It won't be their kids paying, it will be ours! Wether by money, or by blood(how long until the only employment there is is the military?), it is our kids that pay
:flame


Its called being an American...sorry

Why should I pay 45k in federal taxes last year and 250 million other tax payers didn't? Life isn't fair...never is.. I can also tell you that all the educational loans are not my problem nor is the health of 300 million Americans...I got 3 health insurance plans.... I'll pay into SS for 50 years and never see it too,

This crap isn't my problem either and I'm 52...
edit on 10-11-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 05:13 PM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


Well screw that. If it comes to that, I will stay in Canada. If I didn't have any pride at all, I would be taking all kinds of money from governments for my heritage that was destroyed. All I want is a decent life, not too much to ask is it? It's not right that the government ends up taking like 60+% of our hard earned wages when all is said and done. If that is what being an american is all about, then screw it.
edit on Sat, 10 Nov 2012 17:14:30 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 05:24 PM
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Originally posted by ldyserenity

Then YOU don't understand the fundamentals of math...most of the debt we're incurring are due to these wars...do you realize how much money is spent already on this war spent in that armpit of the world?


I think the problem is you don't understand. Stop crying over spilled milk...that money is already spent, and we need to pay the Piper now...that is my point. I'm not debating as to whether any of that was right or wrong..it doesn't matter we have a 16 trillion dollar bill to pay...now pay it!



901 BILLION dollars that was posted above, well that's a low number because that says defense budget,


That 901 billion is EVERYTHING in the DOD. FBI, Homeland security, military etc, VA, veterans pensions... So we cut the military spending in half and have no more wars...we still need to tax the crap out of everyone...the math IS there.



already trillions of dollars spent on being in that dustbin in Iran/Iraq/Afghanistan.... AND trillions bailing out the businesses and banks that should have been left to die but most of that budget is not going to the lazy right now...never did, but now more than ever it's going to men and women fighting in that dirthole...men and women WHO PAY TAXES as well, they don't just fight and die for our country and freedoms, they're also paying taxes and they never asked for this...so yes


I spent two years of my life in that dirt hole and I'm heading back next Wednesday, so please don't explain it to me...I'm also not saying people are not paying their share...I'm saying EVERYONE needs to pay more....no blame, no excuses the bill needs to be paid...that is all

You keep talking about money already spent, and you are right, but the bill is on the table now and it needs to get paid..


edit on 10-11-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 05:34 PM
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Originally posted by rickymouse
Since this change was enacted as a tax reduction, our governments debt has increased quite a bit. It is the addition of the middle class to this tax break that actually caused the national debt to increase because there are so many in that bracket. I don't think the rich should pay way higher a percentage either, but I think that the rate of fifteen percent should have limitations. Should a person who makes a hundred grand a year on investments pay a cheaper rate of fifteen percent than a miner who works hard for his money at a risky and dirty job while paying twenty+ percent on his federal taxes overall. Not in my book they shouldn't.
edit on 10-11-2012 by rickymouse because: (no reason given)


A couple of points...

Investments are not some kind of automatic income...there are good years and bad years... If you want people, and that means you too, well unless you want nothing other than SS when you retire...If you want people to actually make something than just keeping their money in a shoe box 25% is not going to work.

Once again the Democrat talking points of class warfare has really and I mean REALLY worked. You and others talk about capital gains tax in the third person...they are YOU too. ALL of us actually.... Don't try and get even with the evil rich guy while cutting your own throat.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 05:38 PM
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reply to post by YourWIFI
 


Your reply is really a Bunch of None-Sense. Your Rants about Conservatives. I am Happy to see every one Ignoring You!
You know nothing about this thread and can not add to the content here.
edit on 10-11-2012 by guohua because: (no reason given)
edit on 10-11-2012 by guohua because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 05:41 PM
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Originally posted by ldyserenity
None of the taxing makes sense, you have to first limit your budget. It's like say If I was working and made a certain amount and lived off credit to afford let's say a lawyer (defender) than I get a raise so I start adding more credit for my lawyer to go to say Isreal to fight (Defend) my position about something I find unfair (sound familiar) Just because I have a bigger paycheck, does it make sense to go living even more beyond my means? It's ridiculous. I have a job I figure my budget by what I am taking in and not a dime above, when the country runs that way, then it makes us more economically strong. Without cutting spending we're just sending all those taxes into oblivion, letting them fund more and more lavish things for something that they feel compelled to do, it's basically mind numbing.


It is totally ridiculous...

Three of us go into a store one guy he gets free bread you pay 5 bucks and I pay 50 and it is all fair....

The deal is that Obama, once again, won so he is not going to change the tax codes, he is not changing crap about them, so the tax codes like 16 trillion dollars is something we NEED to live with and that is why we ALL will need to pay more and more.

Here is a question for everyone...

My standard of living requires me to need 150k after all said and done, taxes, retirement saving, Kids school saving etc....I need 150k after all that to maintain my standard of living...

Is it unfair if I pay more in taxes and cannot maintain my standard of living and you don't need to pay any more but can maintain yours?

edit on 10-11-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
Well screw that. If it comes to that, I will stay in Canada. If I didn't have any pride at all, I would be taking all kinds of money from governments for my heritage that was destroyed. All I want is a decent life, not too much to ask is it? It's not right that the government ends up taking like 60+% of our hard earned wages when all is said and done. If that is what being an american is all about, then screw it.
edit on Sat, 10 Nov 2012 17:14:30 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)


Wait what?

In Canada....
If your taxable income is $42,707 or less you will pay 15% Federal
If your taxable income is more than $42,707, but not more than $85,414 then it is 22% Federal

Becareful what you wish for since this is worst than the 10 to 18% I suggest for our poor to middle class.





edit on 10-11-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 05:52 PM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


That is only overt taxes. Pay tax upon tax upon tax upon tax. Might be different for you, since I think you said you were military? I am talking about running my own business. It's not all federal, but damn. Income taxes, sales taxes, property tax, estate tax, sin tax...... It goes on and on and on.

I pay a lot of taxes here in canada too for sure. I get more for my taxes, at least for now. Who knows, canada seems to be going the way of the US as of late.

At least, worst comes to worst, property taxes up here is a measly 500 a year. I was paying more per month back in NY. If all I can get is a minimum wage job up here, I can easily make due with it. Not true at all in NY, else I would have stayed in the US.
edit on Sat, 10 Nov 2012 17:56:20 -0600 by TKDRL because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 06:02 PM
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Originally posted by rickymouse
Just tax capital gains at the income tax rate like they used to do. Oh wait
That would mean all the CEO's with their stock options and free stock as part of their agreement would have to pay a lot more taxes
We can't do that, they control the corporations. Funny that these high paid execs who don't even have their own initial money invested in a company get to pay so little taxes. I can understand a single propriatorship or partnership with money at risk not paying high taxes, but not these guys.


No low or no capital gains tax helps the middle class far more then the wealthy as that tax applies to real estate sales too. Most real estate is being sold by middle class folks.

edit on 10-11-2012 by hawkiye because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 06:06 PM
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I don't know why we're bandying about with numbers.

As others have said, Obama won.

That is the mandate for the government to take everyones money. Screw it, why lie about it.

Just be honest and take it all.
edit on 10-11-2012 by beezzer because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 06:07 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by Xtrozero
 


That is only overt taxes. Pay tax upon tax upon tax upon tax. Might be different for you, since I think you said you were military? I am talking about running my own business. It's not all federal, but damn. Income taxes, sales taxes, property tax, estate tax, sin tax...... It goes on and on and on.

I pay a lot of taxes here in canada too for sure. I get more for my taxes, at least for now. Who knows, canada seems to be going the way of the US as of late.


I'm prior military now so I actually get paid well for my skills..


Don't forget to add the tax that when cost of living doubles so does the tax paid...lol

There are actually like over 50 different taxes and we pay about 50% in taxes.....but we need to pay more...got that big ass bill still



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer
I don't know why we're bandying about with numbers.

As others have said, Obama won.

That is the mandate for the government to take everyones money. Screw it, why lie about it.

Just be honest and take it all.


Now that the fairy tale of an election filled with empty promises and dreams that we can fix everything with fairy dust is over (Thank God!) I just want everyone to know we ALL will be bending over very soon..

As I said this is not a debate, not who's right or wrong, left or right...etc it is the real reality of the situation.

The only other choice is I will be breaking into my doomsday supply, and though I have it, I really do not want to use it. SO all of you who have not been paying 20% of you income to federal taxes pay UP!!! AND if you voted for Obama do it with a smile
on your face....


edit on 10-11-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 06:24 PM
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reply to post by Xtrozero
 


Good to hear you are out of the military. I hope you didn't sell your soul and join blackwater, or whatever they call themselves now


The whole world is insane, I feel like I am just along for the ride. Good thing I always wear my seatbelt. I try my best not to be angry about the past, sometimes it gets the better of me. I paid 22 bucks for a 12 pack tonight, I have had a few, so I am a bit more mellowed out now.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 06:33 PM
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Originally posted by TKDRL
The whole world is insane, I feel like I am just along for the ride. Good thing I always wear my seatbelt. I try my best not to be angry about the past, sometimes it gets the better of me. I paid 22 bucks for a 12 pack tonight, I have had a few, so I am a bit more mellowed out now.


I heard that about Canada with beer. Australia too, it is like 50 bucks plus for a case. Here in Portland/Vancouver area life sucks...I have a local beer place that runs 29 taps of ALL high end micro beer at 4 bucks a 16 ounce... 12 to 15 bucks to fill up my 64 ounce growler (jug) and 6 bucks for the 10% plus beers...ya I got it bad...

The bottom line is to make enough money that you are bullet proof from whoever gets in office..... Well at least that has been my life's goal.





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