Time to pay the Piper....

With the latest election results we need to understand that America is heading in a direction were EVERYONE is going to need to pay more in taxes. We have seen that taxing only the rich more adds about 100 billion, and with a trillion dollar per year spending over of what we actually take in that is not enough, and when this is going to continue to grow we need to finally see reality and not live in a fantasy bubble that taxing a few people more will cure all.

Add to this Obamacare and a ever growing Government and we see two very big concerns within our cost to run our Government. The first one is the TRILLION dollars for medical that makes up 23% of our whole budget. Obamacare will not reduce this in anyway and is looking at doubling it over the next 10 years or so. The other concern is Government pensions, this accounts to 1 trillion too and about 20% of our budget. A bloated Government does not just stop at the monthly pay checks, it goes on until death, and this number will continue to grow and grow to once again the Rich cannot pay it off with an extra 100 billion or even a few hundred billions, or even a trillion more out of their pockets.

So here is basically our only choices since America has vote against the trickle down economy approach to create jobs and tax revenue.

1. Let all Bush tax cuts and tax credits expire. One of the reasons 47% do not pay taxes is because of that damn Bush who did these tax cuts and credits. Once these are gone that 47% will drop to around 25%.

2. Raise taxes on everyone below 250k to 10% more. The middle class pays basically an average of 8% in federal taxes...REALLY? that is ALL? They need to pay more, sorry...as we push into Obamcare and other programs the middle class will need to pay more for it. The poor will need to pay too, and if you think about it they still get a great deal in the process. If a family that makes 25k pays 2.5k in taxes after all said and done that 2.5k is still very cheap healthcare.

So we need to push EVERYONE below 250k to 10 to 18% average as a start to fix our problems...

250k to 1 million we should add 12.5% more on top of what they already pay and 15% more on those who make over a million.

As I said these percentages are just a start to get the ball going and could go much higher as Government spending and the deficit grow. No pointing fingers, whining or making excuses that one cannot afford taxes WE ALL need to pay more.

The debates are over on what type of recovery we should focus on. Obama won and that is the direction we need to go to fix this huge economic collapse, and I actually think he might be the best man for the job since he doesn't need now to worry about re-election and any promises made that would be impossible to keep in the first place.

Your thoughts?

reply to post by Xtrozero

Sometimes money is Saved by what a Leader Didn`t do.

A War with Iran Avoided, could Save Trillions, and Thousands of Our Finest.

What Value do you Place on One Soldier NOT Killed.

The GOP sees Soldiers às pawns for Foreign Policy`.

Do You.

Income tax collection was implemented during prohibition,to make up for lost re-venue from alcohol sales.

Prohibition was lifted,and income tax stayed,even though they now had re-venue coming from alcohol sales.

Now they were pulling in twice as much re-venue,and they still couldn't make ends meet?.

This is an old problem,why would anyone place any trust or faith in such a failure?.

You get the best government money can buy,it's way overpriced and over-rated.

It's free money until there isn't anyone down here with any.

Then what?,something like this?.

Something like this.

Just tax capital gains at the income tax rate like they used to do. Oh wait That would mean all the CEO's with their stock options and free stock as part of their agreement would have to pay a lot more taxes We can't do that, they control the corporations. Funny that these high paid execs who don't even have their own initial money invested in a company get to pay so little taxes. I can understand a single propriatorship or partnership with money at risk not paying high taxes, but not these guys.

Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

Sometimes money is Saved by what a Leader Didn`t do.

A War with Iran Avoided, could Save Trillions, and Thousands of Our Finest.

What Value do you Place on One Soldier NOT Killed.

The GOP sees Soldiers às pawns for Foreign Policy`.

Do You.

There is no debate here...Obama won, I understand that. I'm not saying the republicans had a better plan, I'm saying we have ONE plan now and it is more taxes. Without an Iran war we will STILL spend over a trillion a year more than what we take in...that number will grow and grow, and so EVERYONE needs to pay the Piper now...EVERYONE, sorry that is reality.

BTW this is not a post on War in anyway it is on our need to fix our ecomony.

Originally posted by MyHappyDogShiner

This is an old problem,why would anyone place any trust or faith in such a failure?.

You get the best government money can buy,it's way overpriced and over-rated.

It's free money until there isn't anyone down here with any.

This might be true, but it has been voted on and we have just ONE direction...that's it...just ONE now, take it or leave it. That one direction gives us very limited choices and those choices are to tax the people more...hell it is basally what they vote on to do...right?

Originally posted by rickymouse
Just tax capital gains at the income tax rate like they used to do. Oh wait

That would mean all the CEO's with their stock options and free stock as part of their agreement would have to pay a lot more taxes

We can't do that, they control the corporations. Funny that these high paid execs who don't even have their own initial money invested in a company get to pay so little taxes. I can understand a single propriatorship or partnership with money at risk not paying high taxes, but not these guys.

There you go pushing our failures on the rich again...they don't matter, they play a small roll in all this...And this is not really a debate on whether the rich pay enough for we can tax them 100% and it is not enough... THAT IS THE POINT!!

BTW do you think capital gains is only for the rich? Lets push that from 15% to 25% and 80% of America will end up with zero retirement income outside of SS....

When we look at it, it's the younger generation who are paying heavily for the 'crisis' we're in. In the UK, the higher education system's being decimated, the number of places is being cut, course fees were tripled by a coalition that includes a party that pledged to abolish the fees, VAT's gone up 25%, housing benefit is being removed for under-25s, and it's next to impossible to get onto the housing ladder. I could go on.

Basically young people have a choice between opting out of the system (as with Anonymous, Occupy, et. al.), or spending the next five decades living with this mess. Either way, we're all in for a rough ride.

I choose none of the above. I opt out. I can dismantle my business and just work for cash under the table. Why work to support those who will not work. I vote none of the above.

reply to post by Xtrozero


Tell ya what.

Lets return to 1999. Before the Bush tax cuts.

Lets have the same tax rate as 1999.

but

Lets also have the same spending budget as well.

Why should I pay for the errors of my ancestors? I didn't make this frikken mess, it started long ago. That is what is so damned wrong with the way our governments think. That they can spend more than they take in, who cares how many generations have to pay for it. It won't be their kids paying, it will be ours! Wether by money, or by blood(how long until the only employment there is is the military?), it is our kids that pay

reply to post by Xtrozero


Union thugs with pensions fail to understand how the rest of us manage in retirement beyond the pittance of SS. They listen to their masters and buy into the BS.

Originally posted by MsAphrodite

Union thugs with pensions fail to understand how the rest of us manage in retirement beyond the pittance of SS. They listen to their masters and buy into the BS.

When you say Ùnion Thugs`, do you mean People who are in Unions...

Or is there a Strong Arm Section of Unions that I am unaware of.

we should start by cutting out all the unnecessary crap that really doesn't do much good at all except for this little special interest or that....

ya know, like funding for the grammies, airports in communities that not only don't wan them, but wonder just why one is being built when there is one not even 50 minutes away!! roads to nowhere, stuff like that...

and, well, I'm sorry but the capital gains tax should be increased if the profit that was incurred through the housing fiasco fell under that tax, which I believe it does!! alot of cash went into saving their precious investments, and between that and the two wars that bush created, I do believe that it about makes up for the deficit!

social services, social security, medicaid, medicare, chips, heap, food stamps, ect, should be all condensed into one program, FAIRLY BASED ON INCOME!! and by fairly, I mean that it keeps up with the cost of living so no one is left out in the cold, especially our seniors who have worked all their lives, paid into the program, and do deserve to get something out!!

and ya know, if we had done things differently, ya know, required those that could work to work, instead of allowing them to live off the handouts, and well, opened up the jobs by allowing those who wanted to retire early to retire, cutting the workweek, ect...and left the social safety net for just those who truly needed it....the elderly, the truly handicapped, ect....we could have made do with alot less social workers, all probably be working closer to part time hours, not have been paying so much into these programs, and well.....still come out ahead!!

but well, those that could have been working should have been all along, there should never have been the option of just not working and living on welfare...disability, ya, social security, ya....but not welfare.

and well, then ya, we are more than likely have to all pay a little more....
or default on the debt, which, well, there are plenty around who seem to thing that defaulting on that part of the debt (the one institution that the gov't owes more money to than any other..social security!!!) would be a good option to take, so why not just default on the others also??? when one goes bankrupt, is there any advantage of keeping some debt but chosing to not honor other debt, except maybe to keep some of the collateral for your use, like your car??

of course, they could, doubt if they will though, allow that lawsuit to go through the court system, judge it fairly, and hold those who are accountable for the mess to begin with and collect a least a good portion of that debt from the windfall they got from playing the scheme....
but that is probably asking too much, huh???

Originally posted by Xtrozero
1. Let all Bush tax cuts and tax credits expire. One of the reasons 47% do not pay taxes is because of that damn Bush who did these tax cuts and credits. Once these are gone that 47% will drop to around 25%.

edit on 10-11-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)

Take from the poor and give to the rich? With 53% of the budget going to the war machine and even more going to the banksters, do the poor have to pay more? Do you know why 47% do not pay income tax?


Who doesn’t pay taxes, in eight charts

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by Xtrozero

 

Tell ya what.

Lets return to 1999. Before the Bush tax cuts.

Lets have the same tax rate as 1999.

but

Lets also have the same spending budget as well.

Well you said what I was gonna say...add to that end the overseas policing and stop all the wars like ...um....yesterday!!! AND one more thing Build a monorail system like Japan's (Which will give us more jobs) We could do it with all the money saved from not being in the skunkwhole of the world and fighting them.

reply to post by earthalien50

It may be a small point, but I was struck by your use of 53% of the budget for defense. May I post something I put up in another thread?

Thanks for adding the video. My first impression is that they are trying to fool people. There's a lot of double counting and some questionable assumptions. May I suggest you check here: www.usgovernmentspending.com...
especially the table under the pie chart?

For the 2013 budget, the government is planning on spending 3803 billion dollars. Some of the figures include
Pensions..........879 billion
Health Care......916 billion
Welfare.............422 billion
Defense........... 901 billion
Education.........136 billion
Transportation..114 billion

I'm sorry, but I don't think the 53% figure from the video is anywhere near accurate.

With respect,
Charles1952

There is no debate here...Obama won, I understand that. I'm not saying the republicans had a better plan, I'm saying we have ONE plan now and it is more taxes. Without an Iran war we will STILL spend over a trillion a year more than what we take in...that number will grow and grow, and so EVERYONE needs to pay the Piper now...EVERYONE, sorry that is reality.

BTW this is not a post on War in anyway it is on our need to fix our ecomony.

Then YOU don't understand the fundamentals of math...most of the debt we're incurring are due to these wars...do you realize how much money is spent already on this war spent in that armpit of the world? 901 BILLION dollars that was posted above, well that's a low number because that says defense budget, already trillions of dollars spent on being in that dustbin in Iran/Iraq/Afghanistan.... AND trillions bailing out the businesses and banks that should have been left to die but most of that budget is not going to the lazy right now...never did, but now more than ever it's going to men and women fighting in that dirthole...men and women WHO PAY TAXES as well, they don't just fight and die for our country and freedoms, they're also paying taxes and they never asked for this...so yes, it IS about WAR!

Originally posted by earthalien50

Originally posted by Xtrozero
1. Let all Bush tax cuts and tax credits expire. One of the reasons 47% do not pay taxes is because of that damn Bush who did these tax cuts and credits. Once these are gone that 47% will drop to around 25%.

edit on 10-11-2012 by Xtrozero because: (no reason given)

Take from the poor and give to the rich? With 53% of the budget going to the war machine and even more going to the banksters, do the poor have to pay more? Do you know why 47% do not pay income tax?


Who doesn’t pay taxes, in eight charts

That is what every Conservative and Right-winger of today wants!! They want the super-wealthy to get away without paying their fair-share percentage-wise in taxes while KNOWING that it will leave the working-class and middle-class to carry the burden. We already CARRY ENOUGH BURDEN while the wealthy wish to HAVE IT ALL in America, yet PAY NOTHING!!!!! UNACCEPTABLE!!!!

The Conservatives and the Right want CONSTANT WAR, yet they are the FIRST and the LOUDEST to scream from their rooftops when anyone suggest they pay more in taxes to PAY for it. Us commoners, We The People, are SICK TO DEATH OF WAR!!! We dont want it, yet you do, yet you dont want to pay a dime more in taxes!!

Todays Conservatives and the Right are PERFECTLY FINE if the taxes are raised on the rest of us and they twist and spread COMPLETE MISINFORMATION regarding the non-wealthy not paying taxes. Their silliness has been RIPPED APART so many times already, yet they think if they keep repeating it over and over again, that folks will believe it. BUT, MOST OF AMERICA DIDNT FALL FOR THE CONSERVATIVES NONSENSE, and you EASILY LOST the election as you all campaigned on a foundation of nothing but LIES and FEAR from the start!!!!!

I keep in close contact with family and friends all over the world and these other countries see our Conservatives as the most BACKWARDS FOOLISH IDIOTIC folks on the planet. The Conservatives in America are making us all look like ASSES to the rest of the world. Its getting SICKENING.

You lost the election Conservatives, SUCK IT UP, stop WHINING, stop BLAMING everyone else, stop LYING, stop TWISTING charts and information for your agenda, and stop HATING the working class and middle-class Americans. Stop HATING everyone who doesnt agree with you all or look like you all.

America has voted and has said HELL NO to todays Conservative and Right-wing WHACK-JOBS!! GET OVER IT,

We The People of America have casted our VOTE and WON!!!! LIVE WITH IT!!!!

And thank GOODNESS we won so that we may continue FORWARD rather than BACKWARDS!!

reply to post by YourWIFI


Do you even know what conservative means?