Occupy Wall Street campaigners buy-up debt to abolish it

What is wrong with temp. help when it is needed? I believe we all should help each other--in one way or another. It is our civic duty. I will be looking at this debt relief because I need it. It would help me out of the payday loan hell I live in.

Originally posted by WhatThallShallWilt
What is wrong with temp. help when it is needed? I believe we all should help each other--in one way or another. It is our civic duty. I will be looking at this debt relief because I need it. It would help me out of the payday loan hell I live in.

edit on 11-11-2012 by WhatThallShallWilt because: too much

First, welcome to ATS.

Second there is nothing wrong with temporary help. But erasing debt that someone accrued due to frivolous spending only reinforces frivolous spending.
If you cannot afford it do not buy it.
Why are you in a payday loan situation? U2U me- maybe I can help get you out of this cycle.

Originally posted by MyHappyDogShiner
Nice to hear of this type of thing...

You who respond negatively to it think like your masters.

You think like those who rule you.

That is why you think it is negative.

I agree. They actually bought that crap and believe their in the 'club'.

It would be hilarious if it wasn't so sad. I hope one day we get over this pseudo-superiority way of thinking.

I see a lot of people making the comments about how people are getting bailed out once again with other people's money. But what everyone fails to realize is that if we want our country to fare better economically, if we want our country to get back to the America it was, if we want to stick it to the bankers and the government... then YES! we are going to have to come out of our own pockets to do it. This is what our Pastor calls (and yes...I'm a christian and fully believe in Christ and Yes I believe in the bible, however, the story I'm about to tell is one of the better bible stories as it is and has historical significance....I feel that just as Roman, Greek, Sumerian, Babylonian and Egyptian as well as a plethora of others have fantastical stories, I believe that at the core of those stories is truth and that there is a lot of history to learn even with talking donkeys.) Nehemiah.

Do you know who Nehemiah was? why his book is so important? here's why. At the time of Nehemiah, Jerusalem was nothing. The Jews had been dispersed and carried off, those who were still in the city had fallen into "ungodly ways" by marrying pagans, worshipping pagan gods, working on the sabbath and debt. People had found a way to capitalize on other people. They developed a system where they went in and got those in Jerusalem to mortgage their land and then of course, the ability to pay was impossible, so they would take the land (sound familiar?) So, Nehemiah asked the King of Persia for permission to return to Jerusalem, build it back up and bring the people back (a little bit more to it than that of course, but I'm trying to keep this short) Now of course, this would take money, money that Jerusalem did not have (specifically to rebuild the walls. So, he went into the city and bought up all the debt. With his own money. Here is exactly what they did.

1. He went to Jerusalem and had the walls and gates rebuilt as they were destroyed. This would take money correct? No! everyone who agreed and was with him and in the city gave all the materials and worked for free. No! I am not a socialist. But, we have a lot families who are facing having no homes, a lot of families who have lost homes due to Katrina and now Sandy. What if, instead of waiting on FEMA or their insurance companies (which are useless) we instead had acres of land that the American people owned, where houses could be built, fast, cheap and free? Where people didn't have to worry about where they would go? and set a time alotment for them to have to move out and be back on their feet. Something the government can't touch. Because one, your donating that housing structure and that land space, it's a charity....that even helps the persons donating the spaces with taxes. I'm not proposing giving homes for free. When you read Nehemiah, you will see...EVERYONE built the wall, the city and it's people all came together for the good of the city, blame and finger pointing was laid aside for the good of the city. Much like we need to do for our country

2. " Still others were saying, “We have had to borrow money to pay the king’s tax on our fields and vineyards. Although we are of the same flesh and blood as our fellow Jews and though our children are as good as theirs, yet we have to subject our sons and daughters to slavery. Some of our daughters have already been enslaved, but we are powerless, because our fields and our vineyards belong to others.” I heard their outcry and these charges, I was very angry. I pondered them in my mind and then accused the nobles and officials. I told them, “You are charging your own people interest!” So I called together a large meeting to deal with them and said: “As far as possible, we have bought back our fellow Jews who were sold to the Gentiles. Now you are selling your own people, only for them to be sold back to us!” They kept quiet, because they could find nothing to say."

Now, obviously, we will never...ever, get the banks, lenders or government to do this. But, we, can do it ourselves. If we buy up the debt and then forgive the debt, while yes..we are bailing out those who made bad decisions already, while yes we are helping out the banks and money hungry wall streeters. The fact is, we are helping ourselves more and sticking it to those in charge, which I am for. On top of all that, we are helping our country. I am not a socialist. I believe in yes, helping those in need and putting my hand out to those who need help, I am not for the idea of ..take from the rick and disperse it equally to those less rich. I am not for us taking all the money in American putting it into one pot and then handing out equal amounts to all people. But this is not that! This is us, the American People, standing up and taking our country back and saying "we are not waiting on those in charge, we are not relying on the inept to fix us, we will fix ourselves." and in the mean time...educate those who we are helping....NO LOANS!!!!

Abolishing PayDay Loan Debt would be like declaring free money.

In this Paradigm you would be better off getting out of the servitude cycle

yep.. this is for sure a bowl full os awesomeness.. !

I remember a few years back another group had a program running where they were buying houses for first time buyers and selling it back to them for half the price.. or something like that.. never heard a sniff about it since..

Originally posted by Nkinga
I see a lot of people making the comments ..........

Do you know who Nehemiah was? .............

No Doubt wise words, Do you have Pictures?

reply to post by Nkinga


I ran out of room

3. Nehemiah was in a great position. He was a governor at this time, and what was due the governor in Jerusalem was food, and money for free. Those in any government position at that time were to have an allotment of food, wine and supplies. At this time, it would have placed a heavy burden on the city and nation of Jerusalem, so...Nehemiah...did he lessen the amount? NO...he totally cancelled any payment to the government by the people of Jerusalem, Those in any government position while Jerusalem was being rebuilt did not take a tax, food, wine or supplies from the people. Our government of course...will never do this, but, Us the American people should at least be clamoring it at them, until our nation is back on it's feet so to speak, until our national debt is fixed...anyone in government should forgo their paychecks and handouts. You think those in debt in american and having it paid for them is the handout? Seriously? Someone who needed a loan and got one that they couldn't afford, is a handout? Do you have any idea how much we pay collectively to wall street and capital hill? Thats the HANDOUT! not our own people.

Our pastor,.... Andy Stanley, about a year ago gave us all this info and basically said...we need a Nehemiah, our country needs Nehemiahs, lots of them. More so in our own government and I think it's why this election was so important this year....not just the Presidential one. But, in the years coming, my thoughts? take out the bible part of it, take out the spiritual aspect of it and focus on Nehemiah the person and what he did and how he fixed Jerusalem and then when going to the polls...vote in for the Candidate who seems most like Nehemiah. Because that's what we are going to need. Those who are willing to come out of their own pocket, is it fair? no, is it fun to hand our money over? no. But is that what it's going to take since our own government is failing us? Yes.

reply to post by UKMinarchist


No, no pictures, just more words: If your not a part of the solution your a part of the problem.

reply to post by Nkinga


I do not know who Nehemiah was, I'm not that old. I pulled one of my 4 copy's of the bible down from my bookcase, just to confirm the book was there. I do not remember hearing of it from 20 years of Catholicism, nor 15 years of drumming for other Cristian denominations.

Sorry, for me it's so late it's early. Can you quote chapter and verse so I can look up the whole story.

You state we should buy up and forgive debts, and in the same post advocate no loans? What is debt if not an outstanding loan?

I will return to this tomorrow after a good sleep.

Originally posted by Nkinga
reply to post by UKMinarchist

 

No, no pictures, just more words: If your not a part of the solution your a part of the problem.

Could not agree more - I'm a RBE Advocate, Notts UK Chapter, but I won't preach.

while the little guys were losing their homes, the big multimillion dollar corps were walking away from multimillion dollar real estate deals...

the little guys were "irresponsible".
but, the big multimillion dollar corps were just using good strategy!!!

here's a question for the op...

no one knows who owns the note to my home...
not even the servicer.
so, how can I be sure that the money I am sending to the servicer is being applied to the note??
how can I be sure that, even if I paid all that I owed tomorrow, that the owner of that note won't show up next week, next year, next decade and tell me that it was never paid and the home is theirs??
the person, or group of people owning the note are the only ones who can foreclose on the home.
the banks don't know who those people are that owns the notes, which is why they used robosigners to foreclose..

if the servicer doesn't know who owns the note when they foreclose....
how are they making sure my payments are being applied to the note????
maybe the ones who are being foreclosed on now are the lucky ones, after all this is a country where quite frankly, many times being "resposnible" just doesn't pay off. they are being let lose from the debt, and in 7 or so years will be able to rebuild their credit back up and be ready to play again...
those of us who are paying, could in fact, find ourselves facing thousands of dollars down the line as we try to sort out just why our payments didn't end up where they were supposed to go while the holder of that note demands payment that they never got!!!

it wasn't the "irresponsible" homeowners that created this mess... the banks would have been more willing to refi if they actually held the note, and they wouldn't have been so eager to foreclose if they hadn't bet against the homeowner paying that debt off...
and, I do believe that the homeowner had every right to go straight to the holder of that note and renegotiated, if they could have tracked it down....

the banks have made a complete mess of all of our property rights, not the "irresponsible" homeowners.

reply to post by cornucopia


It really is awesome. I also heard they are helping feed, clothe and care for Sandy victims. From NY, I've always been a fan and sorry I couldn't join them on WS!

Originally posted by cornucopia


bail out the people, by the people.


that is so awesome!

thank you so much, thank you

although i would prefer banks choose on their freewill to do the right thing or have governments force them too as they should not see any more money, this is so awesome though..

i would also like to see the federal reserve/for-profit banking system be abolished, asap

thank you

www.telegra ph.co.uk
(visit the link for the full news article)

True, true. As I understand it...not many years ago a provision in FICA Laws that SAVINGS Banks could not also dabble in "speculative banking" (since the money they play with is not there's to lose) was dismantled or removed. What was once seen as a conflict of interest was de-regulated.
(see smoosh Economy in the Reagan Era)
This de-regulation over time, resulted in the Banking collapse and subsequent need for a bailout.

Banking is among the oldest professions. I forget who the money lender were but it was some religious position a knight of some sort - and they have never subsided in wielding the most supreme and absolute power.

As bad as the Fed is...if you get rid of it you will have to stop banking.
Prior to the Fed banks failed and investors had no guarantee they'd see their money again.

I could give up banking but for the many conveniences it offers like drive through, auto-pay and debit card purchases so you don't need to carry cash.
I might leave banking one day but it would require an enormous lifestyle change.
It would severely impair my ability to consume items mfg in the USA and affect those mfg.
It would severely jeopardize my JOB AS A CONSUMER.


And isn't that what keeps this country on its feet? People buying crap.

What's kind of ironic is that to donate to pay for other people's debt, you have to use a credit card or Paypal.

Perhaps a better way of doing this is to put startups of this program in different cities across America. Like how Occupy sprouted up everywhere, have Rolling Jubilee and fundraisers like The People's Bailout across the country. Then it would be the community helping out people in their community. That person would see real change affect them because if I help out my neighbor it tends to spread. I help someone, and they help someone else, and it's a chain affect. I suppose some people are just takers and don't bother helping others, but there is something in the Universe called Karma for that.

To the people who don't want to donate, then don't. It's fine that you think it's a waste of your time/money, but don't ruin it for the people who actually want to help people who are struggling.

So I have lived a modest life, engineered pseudo-comfortably within my means, I have some debt but nothing too far beyond what I can afford to make payments on.

Can I have my debt wiped out too, so I can finally go buy a few Ferrari's and a Yacht. Or, should I just go put them on my credit cards now, and get bailed out later?

Originally posted by newcovenant
I could give up banking but for the many conveniences it offers like drive through, auto-pay and debit card purchases so you don't need to carry cash.
I might leave banking one day but it would require an enormous lifestyle change.
It would severely impair my ability to consume items mfg in the USA and affect those mfg.
It would severely jeopardize my JOB AS A CONSUMER.


And isn't that what keeps this country on its feet? People buying crap.

Many credit unions offer conveniences such as auto-pay and debit cards. I can't think of any with drive throughs, but unless you're disabled, I don't see that being a real issue.

You might be thinking what's the difference between a bank and a credit union. Well, lots of things. First of all, when you take out a loan at a credit union as opposed to a bank, the credit union has the member's best interest in mind. Banks tend to seek ways of making a profit. Credit Unions are non-for-profit so they do things that are possible to help the person in need of a loan. For example, they'll teach them how the loan works and act as a semi-financial advisor.

Also, credit unions are owned by the members and not by shareholders. So 1) the credit union doesn't have to make decisions that satisfy shareholders like banks do. 2) The money that would go to shareholders goes to its members instead, so credit unions tend to offer slightly better rates on interest.

Also banks tend to invest your money into things that are slightly shady or shady to say the least, whereas a credit union invest your money to small local businesses or someone looking to buy or remodel a house or to buy a car. Your money is going to helping the community as opposed to helping big business.

So, yes. You don't have to use a bank. At the very least, I would recommend saving your money in a bank, but taking out a loan at a credit union. That way your interest payments have no way of going to corrupt big money bigwigs who have no interest in helping people, but goes to the community and a non-for-profit whose best interest is in helping people.

Originally posted by zayonara
So I have lived a modest life, engineered pseudo-comfortably within my means, I have some debt but nothing too far beyond what I can afford to make payments on.

Can I have my debt wiped out too, so I can finally go buy a few Ferrari's and a Yacht. Or, should I just go put them on my credit cards now, and get bailed out later?

This program is for helping out people who can't make their payments, so judging by your situation no. And sure, you can put your ferrari and yacht on your credit card, but as soon as you can't pay, that car dealership or bank will just take it away from you, and then you'll still have to pay your debt, and even then it's not guaranteed that your debt will be paid by the Occupy Movement, because it looks like this program is only paying off $1 million in debt at the moment. If this continues to grow, who knows what will happen, but it seems unlikely that your debt will be taken care of.

ignorant

second line

reply to post by randomtangentsrme

I can't afford to share,I try to help someone else because I am surely fuct.

If I can't get out of my own predicament,I try to help someone else get out of theirs.

If one cannot help one's self,help someone else.

I've been homeless since 2004,and getting pretty good at it.