Quentron Energy Convertor, page 3

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reply posted on 13-11-2012 @ 10:41 PM by roguetechie

Actually in the case of Rossi there have been several very telling instances that reek of, at the very least, bait and switch tactics if not outright fraud.

For example during the runup test for the 1 megawatt power plant which only ever produced about 500 kilowatts worth of heat at any given time it was connected directly to a constantly running 500 kilowatt diesel generator....

This has been covered in quite a bit of detail elsewhere. But suffice it to say that Rossi is at the best a horrible businessman with no understanding of how to market a new and viable technology. At the worst he's an outright con man. Judging from his past performances with petrodragon and his thermoelectric devices that he got millions from the DOE to develop and never delivered on I'm leanin towards fraud.

Now this is not to say that companies like brillouin energy might not actually be on to something in the cold fusion arena. But Rossi is one hell of a bad example to use.

I remain cautiously skeptical about the quentron situation. Phillip Hardcastle has been working for years towards building these devices, and is apparently working with a major university to bring the devices to fruition. We will just have to see if the November release date goes any better than the two previous release dates he has not kept to.

reply posted on 13-11-2012 @ 11:25 PM by SplitInfinity

reply to post by pteridine

FRAUD!? Let me explain something to you. If I 100% KNEW that something actually DID WORK....and then I accused the person who created it of making untrue statements or claims...it would have to be proven in a court of Law that I KNEW that the creation WORKED and that my statements were purposely malicious for there to be a case for SLANDER...NOT FRAUD.

In this case...I am expressing my OPINION that because NO ONE HAS SHOWN ANY PROOF...or at the VERY LEAST...provided an example of a test that was witnessed by others where the creation worked as described. This is NOT FRAUD.

FRAUD is determined Legally when a person either makes Fraudulent Statements or does some form of action that has been FAKED in which others have been HARMED either Monetarily or harmed in their Reputation which would effect them in a variety of ways. If no harm is done then there is NO FRAUD.

In THIS instance...a person who asks for PROOF of a creations ability to actually work...and is neither provided any PROOF or any way to FIND PROOF...then as per logic makes a statement based on OPINION that in their mind the CLAIMS have no basis in SCIENTIFIC FACTS for it to work as well as the reality that the supposed creator or his supporters have neither provided adequate PROOF or even the LOGIC or CALCULATIONS or a WITNESSED WORKING EVENT OF THE CREATION....then a person is not breaking any LAWS nor is that person doing something SLANDEROUS by questioning as well as postulating that the CREATION DOES NOT WORK. Legally this is REASONABLE in that an OPINION such as mine and others can be expressed that either QUESTIONS OR REPUDIATES such claims that after much asking have gone unproven and without any SUPPORTING DATA PROVIDED by the SUPPOSED SELF DECLARED CREATOR of such a creation.

Split Infinity

reply posted on 14-11-2012 @ 06:39 PM by pteridine

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by pteridine

FRAUD!? Let me explain something to you. If I 100% KNEW that something actually DID WORK....and then I accused the person who created it of making untrue statements or claims...it would have to be proven in a court of Law that I KNEW that the creation WORKED and that my statements were purposely malicious for there to be a case for SLANDER...NOT FRAUD.

In this case...I am expressing my OPINION that because NO ONE HAS SHOWN ANY PROOF...or at the VERY LEAST...provided an example of a test that was witnessed by others where the creation worked as described. This is NOT FRAUD.

FRAUD is determined Legally when a person either makes Fraudulent Statements or does some form of action that has been FAKED in which others have been HARMED either Monetarily or harmed in their Reputation which would effect them in a variety of ways. If no harm is done then there is NO FRAUD.

In THIS instance...a person who asks for PROOF of a creations ability to actually work...and is neither provided any PROOF or any way to FIND PROOF...then as per logic makes a statement based on OPINION that in their mind the CLAIMS have no basis in SCIENTIFIC FACTS for it to work as well as the reality that the supposed creator or his supporters have neither provided adequate PROOF or even the LOGIC or CALCULATIONS or a WITNESSED WORKING EVENT OF THE CREATION....then a person is not breaking any LAWS nor is that person doing something SLANDEROUS by questioning as well as postulating that the CREATION DOES NOT WORK. Legally this is REASONABLE in that an OPINION such as mine and others can be expressed that either QUESTIONS OR REPUDIATES such claims that after much asking have gone unproven and without any SUPPORTING DATA PROVIDED by the SUPPOSED SELF DECLARED CREATOR of such a creation.

Split Infinity

You said "They can't because it will not work and there is no proof that it will." If it will not work and there is no proof that it will, aren't you accusing Rossi of fraud? Shouldn't you have some evidence that it will not work before you can say it will not work? All you can really conclude is that there is not enough publically available information to determine if Rossi's device works.

reply posted on 14-11-2012 @ 06:42 PM by KhufuKeplerTriangle

Whether a fraud or not, you can count on Big Oil opposing free energy on every front.

Mag Film and non magnetic of course is one of the HUGE potential markets on the horizon.

DIDN'T YOU WATCH "WALL STREET"????
lol

the daughter mentions film as an energy source in that one, right?
wasn't there a movie also where some kind of methane free energy was discussed?
maybe dead space> LOL

P.S. for those who think this technology is a fraud, what happens when energy hits the earth's atmosphere?
The answer is LIGHT (for all you masons rofl).

The atmosphere, what is it really? It's a FILM of GAS that acts like a capacitor and a plasma conductor in one.

I think scientists only need to study the heavens to figure out free energy.
the dynamo effect and the whole nine yards, including model of capacitance in deep space comets and interactions with the sun

edit on 14-11-2012 by KhufuKeplerTriangle because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-11-2012 @ 02:41 AM by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by pteridine

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by pteridine

Again...the ONUS is upon those who claim this will work NOT THOSE WHO STATE IT WILL NOT.
Split Infinity

Then wouldn't the onus also be on you to show fraud when you make such a claim? There is not enough evidence to claim either success or failure. It appears to have worked but there is no third party confirmation. There is also no evidence of outright fraud. No one has discovered a secret wire providing power from a hidden source. No one has proposed a chemical reaction capable of providing the amount of power that seemed to be generated.

I already posted lots of evidence of Fraud. Oh, and actually there was a wire providing power. In his last test the eCat was hooked up to a generator. He CLAIMED he turned the generator off, he did not allow anyone to verify this, he did not disconnect the wire. His eCat provided power nearly identical to that the generator provided. Why do you have such blind faith?

reply posted on 15-11-2012 @ 02:42 AM by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by pteridine

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

They can't because it will not work and there is no proof that it will. Split Infinity

You cannot make the statement that it will not work based on the evidence that has been made public. It appears that there is enough interest in the ECat to say that there may be something to it.

There is zero evidence it does work. If you can not show it does work, the alternative is it does ... not. No 3rd option.

reply posted on 15-11-2012 @ 02:47 AM by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by pteridine
You said "They can't because it will not work and there is no proof that it will." If it will not work and there is no proof that it will, aren't you accusing Rossi of fraud? Shouldn't you have some evidence that it will not work before you can say it will not work? All you can really conclude is that there is not enough publically available information to determine if Rossi's device works.

Thus far you have proven him right. You have provided zero evidence. Just as he said you could not. My question is why after so many years is there no evidence? Why is there no evidence when Rossi claims success? Why did Rossi claim his eCat was in Europe during an earthquake and then come out and say it had been in Florida all along?

There is plenty of evidence of his fraud, there is ZERO evidence indicating his invention is real. Lack of evidence is in and of itself evidence. The lack of evidence his device works is evidence it does not work.

Stop blindly following people.

reply posted on 15-11-2012 @ 10:24 AM by pteridine

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by pteridine
You said "They can't because it will not work and there is no proof that it will." If it will not work and there is no proof that it will, aren't you accusing Rossi of fraud? Shouldn't you have some evidence that it will not work before you can say it will not work? All you can really conclude is that there is not enough publically available information to determine if Rossi's device works.

Thus far you have proven him right. You have provided zero evidence. Just as he said you could not. My question is why after so many years is there no evidence? Why is there no evidence when Rossi claims success? Why did Rossi claim his eCat was in Europe during an earthquake and then come out and say it had been in Florida all along?

There is plenty of evidence of his fraud, there is ZERO evidence indicating his invention is real. Lack of evidence is in and of itself evidence. The lack of evidence his device works is evidence it does not work.

Stop blindly following people.

I see that you seem to need multiple posts to reply although I do appreciate minimal use of all caps. It is a poor tactic.
Rossi made several public tests but did not allow third party verification. You assume that there was fraud but have no way of showing it. All you can say is that there is no evidence that satisfies you. Rossi actually doesn't care about what you say or what you demand as evidence.
Note that many establishment scientists are now waffling on the topic of LENR because there just might be something there. This is not just about Rossi but about what is slowly coming to light as many others, such as Piantelli, are beginning to show the phenomenon in open laboratory experiments. You should consider looking at the field of LENR, in general, and not fixate on one facet. If LENR is a real phenomenon, then there is no reason why Rossi could not have stumbled on a workable device.

Claiming where the unit was or was not is not fraud. The location has nothing to do with the operation of the unit or the phenomenon that it purports to demonstrate. As to me blindly following people, again you assume too much. Stop thoughtlessly repeating what you have been fed on the internet.

That said, where is the evidence of fraud? Has Rossi taken money and not delivered? Has he sold stock and absconded? Where are the irate customers clamoring for justice? So far, all you can say is that many, you included, are not satisfied with the demonstrations.

reply posted on 15-11-2012 @ 05:25 PM by SplitInfinity

reply to post by pteridine

I can't continue wasting time on this topic as all the posters who simply asked for some form of PROOF have not been given any. Add this the the DUBIOUS CLAIMS of which NO ONE has even provided a Line of Logic never mind the Math to WHY it would work...and you get one Big Heaping Pile of BULL S#!$!

I am not trying to be rude...I am just telling you how I and several others see this issue. IT IS NOT UNREASONABLE TO ASK FOR SOME PROOF. Since no one here is capable of providing that proof...I will move on and not waste my time.

Split Infinity

reply posted on 15-11-2012 @ 06:51 PM by ErosA433

reply to post by SplitInfinity

I completely agree. The interesting thing about this post and others like it is that, real scientists would absolutely LOVE it to work, scientists aren't a bunch of know it alls who want to tell the world how to think. Science learns and changes its views on what is observed. If proof that was 100% transparent was offered, and did what it was pertained to do, then yes, absolutely, we would agree, the world would rejoice and all our energy problems would be solved.

To put some history on it, cold fusion or LENR what ever you want to call it, became big news back in the 1980s... the evidence and experiments presented were widely studied, many many experiments where performed by many many groups... and you know what the results were? Not a single one worked. Since then, there have been many projects/experiments that have reported amazing results, free power is just around the corner, and each and every one of them have produced nothing, absolutely nothing except a couple of wealthy people and some relatively poorer investors. So please excuse any of us logical thinkers for wanting solid un-refutable evidence. As the above said... it is actually not much to ask.

edit on 15-11-2012 by ErosA433 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 15-11-2012 @ 10:05 PM by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by pteridine

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by pteridine
You said "They can't because it will not work and there is no proof that it will." If it will not work and there is no proof that it will, aren't you accusing Rossi of fraud? Shouldn't you have some evidence that it will not work before you can say it will not work? All you can really conclude is that there is not enough publically available information to determine if Rossi's device works.

Thus far you have proven him right. You have provided zero evidence. Just as he said you could not. My question is why after so many years is there no evidence? Why is there no evidence when Rossi claims success? Why did Rossi claim his eCat was in Europe during an earthquake and then come out and say it had been in Florida all along?

There is plenty of evidence of his fraud, there is ZERO evidence indicating his invention is real. Lack of evidence is in and of itself evidence. The lack of evidence his device works is evidence it does not work.

Stop blindly following people.

I see that you seem to need multiple posts to reply although I do appreciate minimal use of all caps. It is a poor tactic.
Rossi made several public tests but did not allow third party verification. You assume that there was fraud but have no way of showing it. All you can say is that there is no evidence that satisfies you. Rossi actually doesn't care about what you say or what you demand as evidence.
Note that many establishment scientists are now waffling on the topic of LENR because there just might be something there. This is not just about Rossi but about what is slowly coming to light as many others, such as Piantelli, are beginning to show the phenomenon in open laboratory experiments. You should consider looking at the field of LENR, in general, and not fixate on one facet. If LENR is a real phenomenon, then there is no reason why Rossi could not have stumbled on a workable device.

Claiming where the unit was or was not is not fraud. The location has nothing to do with the operation of the unit or the phenomenon that it purports to demonstrate. As to me blindly following people, again you assume too much. Stop thoughtlessly repeating what you have been fed on the internet.

That said, where is the evidence of fraud? Has Rossi taken money and not delivered? Has he sold stock and absconded? Where are the irate customers clamoring for justice? So far, all you can say is that many, you included, are not satisfied with the demonstrations.

I have no idea what you mean by my needing multiple posts to reply, we would have been done a long time ago if you would actually provide the minimal information requested.

First, do not confuse Rossi and LENR, they are not the same thing. LENR may be true, Rossi is a fraud. That does not mean all LENR is impossible, it only means Rossi is a fraud and the eCat is fake. As you said, Rossi had "public" demonstrations which entailed him preventing all meaningfull tests and refusing to detach the generator that is capable of providing power equal to or in excess of the power the eCat "generated". Evidence of fraud.

Rossi claimed he was delayed in releasing information he promised to release because the unit was damaged by the earthquake. Then days later Rossi claimed he was getting good information from the SAME unit which has been in Florida for a while. He is caught in a flat out lie. It is not he claimed it was here, or it was there, it was he claimed it was both here and there at the exact same time. Impossible. Evidence of fraud.

Now you ask has Rossi taken money and not delivered. The answer is yes, he has, thank you for asking. I already posted links showing Rossi was claiming he would not take money. Then I provided links showing Rossi claims he has already taken money from investors and customers. No product has been delivered. More evidence of fraud.

Zero evidence his product works even though such evidence has been promised for many years. A wealth of evidence showing Rossi to be a fraud.

edit on 15-11-2012 by OccamsRazor04 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 16-11-2012 @ 04:28 PM by pteridine

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

You stated:
"Now you ask has Rossi taken money and not delivered. The answer is yes, he has, thank you for asking. I already posted links showing Rossi was claiming he would not take money. Then I provided links showing Rossi claims he has already taken money from investors and customers. No product has been delivered. More evidence of fraud."

You have no idea if products have been delivered. If the products work, there is no fraud. How many people are litigating to recover investments? Has anyone claimed to be defrauded? Do you have evidence of fraud or are you assuming too much, once again?

reply posted on 16-11-2012 @ 10:09 PM by OccamsRazor04

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

You stated:
"Now you ask has Rossi taken money and not delivered. The answer is yes, he has, thank you for asking. I already posted links showing Rossi was claiming he would not take money. Then I provided links showing Rossi claims he has already taken money from investors and customers. No product has been delivered. More evidence of fraud."

You have no idea if products have been delivered. If the products work, there is no fraud. How many people are litigating to recover investments? Has anyone claimed to be defrauded? Do you have evidence of fraud or are you assuming too much, once again?

Rossi himself states he is still testing his product. He does not have a working product and does not even claim to have production yet. So Rossi himself says no one hass a product. Remember what I said about blind faith. You are pointless to talk to because you simply do not care about the truth. Live in fantasy world if you like. I give you facts and you give me fantasies. I am content anyone reading these exchanges who seeks truth will see it. I am done with this discussion with you until such time as you provide facts as I have done.

reply posted on 17-11-2012 @ 04:05 PM by pteridine

Originally posted by OccamsRazor04
Rossi himself states he is still testing his product. He does not have a working product and does not even claim to have production yet. So Rossi himself says no one has a product. Remember what I said about blind faith. You are pointless to talk to because you simply do not care about the truth. Live in fantasy world if you like. I give you facts and you give me fantasies. I am content anyone reading these exchanges who seeks truth will see it. I am done with this discussion with you until such time as you provide facts as I have done.

He does not claim to be in production but that does not mean that customers do not have prototypes. What units did he do his tests with? Do you think investors would not require third party verification of the device using prototype units?
Remember what I said about assuming too much. You seem to invent your 'facts' to suit your predetermined conclusions. You have not provided any evidence of fraud on Rossi's part; all you have provided is your opinion that Rossi is a fraud.

reply posted on 19-11-2012 @ 09:51 PM by OccamsRazor04

reply to post by pteridine

Show me third party verification for rossi. Thanks. Like I said you are a blind follower.

reply posted on 20-11-2012 @ 07:23 AM by pteridine

reply to post by OccamsRazor04

You want third party verification? People in Hell want ice water. Rossi doesn't care what you personally want because you are not an investor and he thinks, rightly so, that he has no obligation to provide information to the casual dilettante.
As a point of interest, "fraud" is an intentional deception. If the process doesn't work, to prove fraud you would have to show intentional deception rather than incorrect analyses of the data. You haven't done that so you can't really claim fraud, can you?
Thanks for playing; better luck next time.

reply posted on 20-11-2012 @ 07:43 AM by john_bmth

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

You want third party verification? People in Hell want ice

Yeah, because expecting wild claims to be independently verified before parting with cash is completely unreasonable, isn't it? Keep drinking the Kool Aid son, Uncle Rossi will make everything all right, he just needs a little more time... and your money

reply posted on 20-11-2012 @ 08:10 AM by pteridine

Originally posted by john_bmth

Originally posted by pteridine
reply to post by OccamsRazor04

You want third party verification? People in Hell want ice

Yeah, because expecting wild claims to be independently verified before parting with cash is completely unreasonable, isn't it? Keep drinking the Kool Aid son, Uncle Rossi will make everything all right, he just needs a little more time... and your money

Well, Slick, my cash is safe. As a point of reference, I'm not your "son"; I'm far too intelligent and good looking to be related to you and most likely I am also decades older. If I decide to invest in the ECat, of course I'll expect a verification, but why would I tell the world about it? That wouldn't do me any good at all. It's better for me that the world blindly keep repeating what they read and drinking their own flavor of Kool-Aid.

Do you really believe that the investors in Rossi's device wouldn't demand a third party verification before parting with their money? These guys are all named 'Scrooge' and will do what is called 'due diligence' before any money flows.

reply posted on 20-11-2012 @ 08:23 AM by john_bmth

reply to post by pteridine

That sure is a lot of words and assumptions for a post not containing a shred if evidence

You seem like a handsome and intelligent chap who knows a good bargain when he sees one. I'm selling magic free energy beans, yours for only $995 + p&p. Don't worry, I've got lots of investors and they've all independently verified my claims, we keep such verification on the QT because, well, that's how snake o... sorry, business works, right?

The above offer has as much credibility and corroborating evidence as Rossi's claims so are you in or out? Hurry, they're selling like exothermic overunity hotcakes!

reply posted on 20-11-2012 @ 11:26 AM by pteridine

Originally posted by john_bmth
reply to post by pteridine

That sure is a lot of words and assumptions for a post not containing a shred if evidence

You seem like a handsome and intelligent chap who knows a good bargain when he sees one. I'm selling magic free energy beans, yours for only $995 + p&p. Don't worry, I've got lots of investors and they've all independently verified my claims, we keep such verification on the QT because, well, that's how snake o... sorry, business works, right?

The above offer has as much credibility and corroborating evidence as Rossi's claims so are you in or out? Hurry, they're selling like exothermic overunity hotcakes!

I will reduce the word count for you. Rossi does not have to provide evidence to the world; only to his investors. So far, none have claimed fraud nor have we heard of legal actions against Rossi by investors, hence there is no evidence of fraud and fraud cannot yet be claimed. Some would do so, erroneously, and you have been repeating their claims.
You can continue to parrot what you have heard others say and throw in a batch of "lol's" to cement your position. When you say "exothermic overunity hotcakes" do you think that some laws of thermodynamics were violated? If so, which?

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