Originally posted by twitchy
I'm going to ask some other moderators to take a look at this thread and see what they think.

You want my opinion then? OK. I think that that was the most condesending post I have ever read. I saw no abuse at all, except that that you MISPERCIEVED. If this was directed at another member you would have been warned. I wouldn't rule that out as we try to maintain a level of decorum here. Personally I think an apology is in order.

Originally posted by astrocreep
either of you new found dems would defend what Teddy Kennedy did to that young girl

Umm, that's because I argue the truth, not a position. He was wrong in what he did, much like Laura Bush was wrong in what she did. Both, either directly or indirectly, caused the death of someone else, and for that they should be ashamed.

Seems like a case of '2 wrongs don't make a right' to me. If anything, comparing the two just shows that what happened to Kennedy is brought up all the time, but this incident about Laura Bush is kept hush-hush. Personally speaking, I've heard plenty about what happened with Kennedy (most recently from Ann Coulter about a couple weeks ago on FOX News), but NEVER had any clue Laura Bush killed someone in a car accident. I'm not sure why she is off-limits.

So astro-creep, no, I did not and would not defend what Ted Kennedy did. My question to you is, why defend what Laura Bush did? "She was young." "She probably wasn't a good driver." "Cars weren't made well back then." That almost leaves me speechless that you would try to defend what AT BEST was a complete and utter disregard for human life by running a stop sign at 50+ mph. If it were not for her reckless driving, that young man would not have died that night. It was her fault. Whether she did it on purpose or not, I have no idea. But she did do it either way. I didn't defend Kennedy's actions nor would I ever, so please don't defend what Laura did, thanks.

Look, I tried to speak to reason.

Thread closed.


Edit: Okay, after all of us having some time to calm down, me included, lets see if we can manage to keep our composure a little better on both sides of this.


Game On.

[edit on 22-10-2004 by astrocreep]

The copy of the police report is illegible, but what about this statement from Kitty Kelly:

Michael Dutton Douglas, also 17 and also a senior at Lee High School, left his home before Laura got into the vicinity. He left with his dad close behind, perhaps in pursuit.

Does anyone know why his father might have been in pursuit? Obviously the boy's mind was not on what was in front of him, but who was trailing him.

His father apparently was the first to arrive on the scene of the accident, yet Laura claimed that she only learned who she had killed hours later in the hospital. It's really sort of odd that she claimed not to know who it was given that it was her exboyfriend, in his vehicle, with his father arriving on the scene. Interesting to note here as well is the fact that Laura Bush also later claimed that she was 'very upset' that evening because of 'family' problems at home. Wierd cooincidence that both of them were apparently having problems at home given the persistent rumors of a pregnancy.

Also on a personal note, thank you for not closing the thread astrocreep. My apologies as well.

[edit on 23-10-2004 by twitchy]

Originally posted by jsobecky
Obviously the boy's mind was not on what was in front of him, but who was trailing him.

He didn't run the stop sign, because he had no stop sign to run. He did nothing wrong. Whether he was being 'pursued' or not, he was driving just fine. I think this speaks more to the poor driving skills of Laura, if he could drive just fine while 'being pursued,' while Laura got distracted by a giggling conversation her and her buddy were having

Was Kitty Kelly the passenger in Laura's car?

How do you know for a fact that he was driving just fine?

Originally posted by twitchy
Oh give me a break. Laura Bush quite possibly murdered her ex-boyfriend in High School, smoked pot, and married into money, that makes her a saint? Yeah the evil lords of ketchup. Never mind the Walker/Bush family history of murder and intrigue, we gotta keep those evil ketchup barons from gaining any credibility.

LOL!! Who writes your stuff for you; James Carville? Humorous, but empty and skirts the issue.

Twitchy, when did you stop beating your wife?

Originally posted by jsobecky
How do you know for a fact that he was driving just fine?

Umm, maybe because no one claimed he was driving over the speed limit, and he had no traffic signals that he needed to watch out for, so that's driving 'just fine' in my book. He wasn't in the wrong.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
LOL!! Who writes your stuff for you; James Carville? Humorous, but empty and skirts the issue.
Twitchy, when did you stop beating your wife?

Beating my wife? What kind of slight is that? Like I told astrocreep, if you don't like the information I have provided about Laura bush, then try to debunk it, asking me about beating my wife is hardly a rebuttal.

Originally posted by W_HAMILTON
Umm, maybe because no one claimed he was driving over the speed limit, and he had no traffic signals that he needed to watch out for, so that's driving 'just fine' in my book. He wasn't in the wrong.

Just because no one claimed he was driving over the limit doesn't mean he wasn't speeding. And he was not driving defensively. You can't just speed through an intersection because you don't have a stop sign. Well, actually you can, if you are stupid, but you usually end up dead in an accident - oh wait - he did end up dead!

The fact that his father was pursuing him needs to be investigated. I think his father covered up the investigation in order to hide something.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Just because no one claimed he was driving over the limit doesn't mean he wasn't speeding.

And just because you assume he might have been, doesn't make it true.

And he was not driving defensively.

You don't know that. Do you know how hard it is to avoid a car going AT LEAST 50+ mph directly into you when you have maybe a split-second notice? Virtually impossible. I got into a wreck with someone who ran a stop-sign at maybe 30mph and I couldn't avoid it, even though I saw it coming. This was in the day time, much less at night, and at faster speeds.

I guess the rest of the nation is just lucky that Black Widow Laura now has chaperones to drive her crazy @ss around now, eh? It was no one's fault but Laura's, her recklessness led to taking an innocent's life, and that's downright disgraceful. Trying to defending a killer is also, to a lesser degree, disgraceful.

And you never said who Kitty Kelly was. I don't know where to see the polic report. Is Kelly the passenger? If so, how did she know that the boy's dad was 'pursuing' him? I thought both of the girls claimed they didn't know who was in the car they crashed into?

Kitty Kelly is a biographer that worte a controversial book on the Bush family, and it discusses this incident. The girl that was in the car with Laura Bush was Judy Dykes, a lesbian. Michael Douglas, Laura Bushs' victim, was not in any way violating traffic laws, at least as far as the police were concerned. And yes Laura Bush claimed not to know who she had struck until hours later when informed in the hospital by her family, which is preposterous given that we're talking about her ex-boyfriend and that his father arrived on the scene. Why lie about not knowing who he was? That question indicates premeditation IN MY OPINION. Here's my scenario, I think this Michael Douglas guy knocked her up and then dumped her for a friend of hers, (see above posts) and she and her friend loaded up in the car, lied to her parents about going to a party, then ran him off the road in a fatal accident.
My kids found a black widow in the yard the other day, i have it in a jar was wondering what to call her... hmmmmm....

Originally posted by W_HAMILTON

And he was not driving defensively.

You don't know that. Do you know how hard it is to avoid a car going AT LEAST 50+ mph directly into you when you have maybe a split-second notice? Virtually impossible. I got into a wreck with someone who ran a stop-sign at maybe 30mph and I couldn't avoid it, even though I saw it coming. This was in the day time, much less at night, and at faster speeds.

I certainly do. Happened to me while I was driving a Corvair full of teenagers, no less, on a busy two lane highway on a Sunday afternoon. Nobody got hurt, except the truck driver might have had to change his drawers.

I guess all men are not created equal when it comes to driving skills.

Trying to defending a killer is also, to a lesser degree, disgraceful.

Making dumba** statements and judging her guilty, when by your own admission, you haven't even seen the police report is disgraceful and foolish. You just happen to hate her husband, so she must be guilty in your eyes. Admit it.

I don't know where to see the polic report.

Well, W, you'll just have to read all the replies posted here to find the pointer. Just like the rest of us had to do.

Originally posted by jsobecky

Making dumba** statements and judging her guilty

UMM, SHE IS GUILTY. SHE WAS DRIVING THE CAR THAT RAN THE STOP SIGN AND KILLED SOMEONE. SHE'S GUILTY OF KILLING SOMEONE, end of discussion.

Whether she intentionally did this or not, I have no idea, I said I think she's far too dense to pull something like this off. I'm referring to her simply taking another human life, which yes, Laura Bush is GUILTY of. Thanks, come again.

[edit on 24-10-2004 by W_HAMILTON]

Well, labeling Laura Bush a killer is a bit harsh, especially since it was an accident. Calling someone a killer implies premeditation and intent. Would you say the same about someone who had mechanical failure? All that can be said with verity is that she was driving an automobile that was involved in a fatal accident. No need to persecute her for that.

Originally posted by jsobecky
Well, labeling Laura Bush a killer is a bit harsh, especially since it was an accident. Calling someone a killer implies premeditation and intent.

A 'killer' is someone who kills. Maybe calling someone a murderer implies predmeditation, but saying that someone is a killer means just that -- the person took someone else's life. Which is what Laura did.

No need to persecute her for that.

And there's certainly no need to defend her for that.

Originally posted by W_HAMILTON
A 'killer' is someone who kills. Maybe calling someone a murderer implies predmeditation, but saying that someone is a killer means just that -- the person took someone else's life. Which is what Laura did.

Oh Hamilton you do like your lables don't ya. By your logic, John kerry is a killer. Teddy Kennedy, Democrat Icon, not only a killer, but he unlike Laura Bush is skirting 2nd degree murder. Much like OJ not what he did, but who he was and how much money he had. Every person who has been in a fatal accident is a killer. While your use of syntax is amusing to say the least, you really ought to change your name to W_WOOOOOOOSH, cause here goes another one

Originally posted by FredT
Oh Hamilton you do like your lables don't ya. By your logic, John kerry is a killer. Teddy Kennedy, Democrat Icon, not only a killer, but he unlike Laura Bush is skirting 2nd degree murder. Much like OJ not what he did, but who he was and how much money he had. Every person who has been in a fatal accident is a killer. While your use of syntax is amusing to say the least, you really ought to change your name to W_WOOOOOOOSH, cause here goes another one

Basically.

What John Kerry did in Vietnam, what Kennedy did to that young girl, and what the Black Widow did to her ex-boyfriend -- killing, is killing, is killing.

As for Kennedy though, I never researched much into the story, I just take people like you at your word for it, and I know you wouldn't lie to me right?

And yes, everyone whose RECKLESS driving resulted in the loss of another's life, is a killer. If her victim's parents had pressed charges, Laura would have done time. That's a killer in my book