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Drastic Times Call For Drastic Measures...

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posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 06:37 PM
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The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.


AKA: Sometimes a parent should buckle to the demands of a child for candy, allowing the child to gorge themself and become so sick that they not only begin to understand why Mom & Dad said "don't eat too much candy", but they even enter a "candy bad" phase whereupon the idea of sweets makes them a bit queazy.

The GOP lost to the will of the people on Tuesday. I've come to Jesus over this sad fact. We have a large enough sector of federal dollar recipients that staunchly refuse to upset the Meal Ticket that Romney really didn't stand much of a chance on Tuesday. The problem is, without reversing party platform on social spending or taxation or debt, the GOP is not going to beat the "super minority" of America which depends on liberal policies for housing, feeding, and entertainment spending. UNLESS the GOP can somehow manage to change another metric through playing a very dangerous, potentially nationwide crippling game of poker with the president and Senate majority.

The game? Easy as hell to play... you simply allow your opponent to ante, then you immediately fold your cards. That's all there is to it. Obama says he wants higher taxes on the wealthy, allow him to do that. Obama wants more welfare spending, hand him the checkbook. Obama wants to gut the millitary, pass the man a guthook and a meat saw. Obama wants to shut down most of the US' current energy production capabilities, give him a pair of gloves and a lineman's tool. Obama wants to kneel before the UN on all issues, lay down a padded rug and assist him to his knees. While doing all of this and allowing all of this, be 100% vocal and honest in saying to the American people "We do not endorse any of this, but it appears to be what the majority wants. We are allowing Obama to take the lead here as the president should. None of this is on our hands and we truly grieve for the many Americans who will suffer immensely over this, but all credit for successes and blame for failures needs to go directly to Barack Obama." and then step back.

If the GOP truly believes as most Conservative voters do, that the policies of Obama will swiftly destroy America if allowed to pass unfettered or if they believe the Democrats are bluffing on their desire to pull off all of these asinine policies as some Conservative voters believe, then maybe the time has come to allow Obama to destroy it all. Once the eminent destruction is upon us, many of those now sitting on the Federal payroll and the federal dole will find themselves without that paycheck or assistance because the government will be unequivicably broke. The wealthy will be gone, either from the country or from the pool of wealth that defines the so-called 1%. The UN will be setting US policy unfettered, waiting only for a government with testicles to step in and tell them to get out. In other words, America will be a battered woman of a nation, desperately searching for a hero to whisk her away to safety and salvation... and the GOP will run the tables in 2016, 2020, or however far down the road the current policies of handouts and fleecings can hold out for before the system topples like a house of cards.

Don't get me wrong, I don't believe today's marginalized "conservatives" that make-up the GOP have either the testicular fortitude nor the vision to actually do this, but it would sure be swell if they did.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.




posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 06:42 PM
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Well said,

In other words let your family member on drugs hit rock bottom before you decide on an intervention.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 06:44 PM
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I appreciate the fact that you are thinking outside of the box, BUT I fear that we would find ourselves in the clutches of a one world government sans all of our weapons and subject to totalitarian rule if we actually gave him complete free reign like that. I support collapsing the economy to force a reset, yet I balk at handing over our sovereignty to the UN.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 06:48 PM
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The problem with that is:

Administrations come and go, the legislation, and their spending is forever if anything now is the time to fight harder, and continue to tell them No.

Exactly what a parent does to a spoiled child who thinks they know it all..



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 06:49 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


I agree totally, the only way to talk any sense into some people is to let them make the mistakes and learn them the hard way.

I wish they would, as it is obvious that all of these things will not be "good" to anyone with functioning reason and critical thinking skills.

In short, almost all of the libs beliefs are founded in folly. to quote Reagan " it isnt that my liberal friends know nothing, it is just that they know so much that isnt so."



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 06:50 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


I`ve read your threads before, I know your well versed.
You say the `Federal Takers`didnt want to give up their hand outs.

You do realize the Biggest Receivers of Federal Handouts are from GOP won States.
Kinda dismisses the rest of your thread, But I like the Thought of Obama having his Policies Pushed Through.
I hope your idea runs Rampant through the GOP.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 06:56 PM
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reply to post by Tw0Sides
 





ou do realize the Biggest Receivers of Federal Handouts are from GOP won States.


Want to try again?

There are more people on those government handouts welfare than other entire states populations.

There are more people on welfare in California than the entire population of Indiana, and other examples.
edit on 9-11-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 07:06 PM
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reply to post by Tw0Sides
 


It's not just that "GOP States" utilize more Federal welfare, take a look at which states voted for who:



ETA: The numbers came from FoxBusiness to boot.




edit on 9-11-2012 by MystikMushroom because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 07:11 PM
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reply to post by MystikMushroom
 


Though I can somewhat see how this is kind've true. But you have to remember...having a degree does not make you intelligent or wise. People who I found absolutely moronic and have cheated off me in college, are now becoming your future doctors and engineers.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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reply to post by MystikMushroom
 


Nice TELLING Graph.
Reminds me of the Expression about Average Intelligence, and How Half the Population are below the Average.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 07:12 PM
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Originally posted by neo96
reply to post by Tw0Sides
 





ou do realize the Biggest Receivers of Federal Handouts are from GOP won States.


Want to try again?

There are more people on those government handouts welfare than other entire states populations.

There are more people on welfare in California than the entire population of Indiana, and other examples.
edit on 9-11-2012 by neo96 because: (no reason given)


It's a per-capita deal, not a simple numbers game. The population of Cali is higher, so naturally they will have more on assistance. The percentage of people in traditionally "red states" that are on assistance is higher.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 07:14 PM
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Originally posted by Svipdagr
reply to post by MystikMushroom
 


Though I can somewhat see how this is kind've true. But you have to remember...having a degree does not make you intelligent or wise. People who I found absolutely moronic and have cheated off me in college, are now becoming your future doctors and engineers.


This is a valid argument. Having a piece of paper doesn't make you smart. It does prove, however, that you understood the value and earning potential (at least it used to earn you more) of a degree. It also shows employers that you are willing to dedicate yourself to something and see it through.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 08:03 PM
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reply to post by MystikMushroom
 


This is a common conservative tactic when it comes to numbers.

"The rich already pay more in taxes...in dollar amounts!"

However, I'm totally with the idea of letting the administration do whatever wants. One of two things will happen; either everything will turn out the way the liberals say it will, or everything will turn out the way the conservatives say it will. Hell, there may be a third option where both were wrong and somethings happen while others don't.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 08:36 PM
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reply to post by burdman30ott6
 


This is what I have been saying for some time now. The problems that brought us to this point were not caused by the left or the right, but both. However, the Democrats/left do it a heck of a lot quicker. Everything you explained will happen, with or without the Republicans going along with it or not. However, what will happen will not be recoverable for the Republican party, despite how vindicated their warnings may be.

If we are not physically invaded by our creditors, the country will split up into regional/social nations. It will either happen as a response to the government, or after social disorder leads to physical conflict between political groups and government (buildings, people, etc.)

Libertarians and conservatives will be saying 'I told you so!' However, everyone will be suffering at that point.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 08:53 PM
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reply to post by Wolf321
 

You make it sound like America could ever really go "bankrupt" and not have anything. This is nonsense.

We feed the entire world, we will not starve ever! We have more than enough rescources, we dont even need the rest of the worlds, we simply use theirs, and when they run out, we will still have ours. This has been the strategy all along.

Many nations have been in way worse positions than anything we will see in the future short of the world ending, and they still remain.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 09:03 PM
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reply to post by inverslyproportional
 


No nation in history has survived what we are going through. Debts we cannot repay. Welfare programs and a massive government we cannot financially support. Continuing attacks on entrepreneurship. Revocation of individual rights and liberty.

History has shown this has always lead to collapse of governments, civil wars, revolutions and depression.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 09:05 PM
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Originally posted by Tw0Sides
reply to post by burdman30ott6
You do realize the Biggest Receivers of Federal Handouts are from GOP won States.
Kinda dismisses the rest of your thread,


What?

source
California
Washington
Michigan
Ohio
Pennsylvania
New York
New mexico
New Jersey
Massachusetts
Wisconsin
Illinois
Minnesota
Oregon

The only states the GOP does really well in which make this bubble graph of percent on welfare are Texas, Arizona, and potentially Flroida. The rest are Democrat bread & butter states. Remember, we are talking about welfare per capita, not overall (though California accounts for 1/5th of the electorial votes needed to win the Presidency and also "boasts" almost a third of their population being on assistance. Coincidence that they are so deep into the Democratic philosophy that it is virtually impossible to imagine a Conservative ever winning the state as a presidential candidate again?)

I also included federal payroll and other federal spending in my statement. Look at non defense spending by the feds per state
Source
Top 10:
California: Obama
New York: Obama
Texas: Romney
Florida: Up in the air currently
Pennsylvania: Obama
Illinois: Obama
Ohio: Obama
Virginia: Obama
Michigan: Obama
North carolina: Romney

(Defense spending can, from where I stand, be removed from any metric about partisan breakdowns of Federal spending per state because the millitary tends to be more transient in regards to population and location. There is also a very valid debate in regards to per state defense spending, particularly where bases are concerned, over whether locating a large base near a city is a good thing for local budgets or a bad thing because crime rates do climb around military bases and (often) profits for local businesses are offset by the associated detriments to resident populations (ie: higher crime, higher rental rates, higher costs of living, etc.) I'll leave that argument for a different thread.)

Bottom line, aside from Texas and Arizona, the majority of the top federal dollar recipient states vote strongly Democrat while the majority of the states which recieve the lowest amount of federal dollars (and in which much of the Federal spending is incidentally a direct result of federal land holdings within that state's borders rather than in the form of any oprograms or constructive spending policies. See Alaska, the Dakotas, Montana, Idaho, Utah, etc.) vote solidly Conservative.

I'd like to see some sourcing for your claim that red states recieve more federal handouts, please.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 09:11 PM
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Originally posted by MystikMushroom
reply to post by Tw0Sides
 


It's not just that "GOP States" utilize more Federal welfare, take a look at which states voted for who:


The following is my opinion as a member participating in this discussion.

As a further aside, Obama won 9 of the 10 wealthiest districts in America on Tuesday... which is the reason a lot of Conservative voters believe the Democrats constant babbling about raising the tax rates on the wealthy are an example of them blowing smoke up the nation's ass. There's a lot to all of this, a lot which is quite conspiratorial and reeks of party collusion and backroom dealings on agreed upon points of argument to ensure the two sides remain distanced from each other's followers in the public eye. Abortion is another back room issue... notice when the GOP held the presidency, Congress, and Senate during GWB's first 6 years there was ZERO effort made to challenge Roe v Wade. That's the reason for my final sentence in the OP... the GOP is lacking in testicles and lacking in honesty to actually do what is best for the nation, and in that regard they share a lot more in common with the Democrats than any of America's voters are willing to recognize.

As an ATS Staff Member, I will not moderate in threads such as this where I have participated as a member.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 09:41 PM
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reply to post by Wolf321
 


All of Europe was completely broken and in ruins after the 2 world wars, they remain.

Mexico has dropped 000s off their money several times, they remain.

This has all happened man times in many countries throughout history, even in a worst case scenario we will be ok. All of our infrastructure will remain, all our fields will remain, all our livestock will remain.

Worst case scenario, absolute financial collapse and hyper inflation. Our government will just drop the zeros off the end, the entire country will work for bartered goods at first, and we will simply rebuild our economy from the ground up.

We are in a very unique position. We export the worlds food supply, if they wont take our money, we will make them pay corn weight in gold for it, they will pay so the dont starve, or they will take our money. Either way, we still have everything we have. It will be bad for a little while, but our country will survive.

It isnt like our economy will collapse, and we will get invaded without any way of defending ourselves. We still have plenty of domestic oil, and our strategic reserves. At the most, the people will have to stop driving everywhere all the time, and do more walking and bike riding.

America is in a great position no matter the scenario, most other nation cant say this, and they all know they are dependent on our food supplies. We are the worlds bread basket, and food in the end, is the worlds most valuable currency, as one cant eat oil or gold.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 09:57 PM
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The excuses NEVER will end from the Right!!

The truth is that the working class and the middle-class KNOW what Bush and his trickle-down economics did to them. They know that the wealthy need to pay their fair share and that ALL CHARTS show that the economy is BEST in times when the wealthy are NOT getting away with not paying their fair share. The working class and middle class also KNOW that it is BEST for the super-wealthy to be burdened with the higher taxes to lift up the country than putting it on the shoulders of the REST OF US!!!

The working class and middle-class have voted. And we dont need a Bush THIRD TERM!! We do NOT need the garbage that GOT us to this nightmare. We WANT TO MOVE FORWARD and not BACKWARDS now/

Take PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY, stop WHINING, stop BLAMING, and LIVE WITH IT already!! Romney lost.

SIGH, GET OVER IT!!!!!!!!
edit on 9-11-2012 by YourWIFI because: (no reason given)




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