Preppers in 2012, to build a bunker or "Bug Out", that is the question.

reply to post by Springer


I say if it all gets so collapsed, there is going to be a rapid huge die off and I'm not so sure that preparedness is going to make much difference. It will be the ones left to bury the dead, that will come together to go on. That being said. I don't think it's going to get that bad. I'm for stocking up and staying in place. I think things will be scarce, but there will be enough to maintain civility. It's the wise man who has some freeze dried stashed to supplement what can be had on the street. and surplus staples will be good barter. Scenarios like the book and movie, "The Road" are simply not possible for the duration implied in the story.

Society has endured system failure and come through without to much murder and plunder. although there does always seems to be a bit of this. Cities will be the most dangerous. Supplies will most likely be controlled by the gangs and what remains of the police forces

Yeah definitely stay in place, stock up big. You'll become a big player in the after shock.

I am not financially able to do he Bunker thing.

Although I figured that if I have a few day heads up, like a meteor impact or something, I can dig a pretty big hole under the house in a few days. That wont be secure but it can help in the short time.

Bugging out to grannies in the country s an option. Although she iS crazy and I almost would rather take my chances on the street..lol.

Buld a Bunker and have a bug out bag. Keep the SUV gassed and loaded.

Personally I think the local governments will have the roads blocked to keep people from flooding their towns for a while.

It will never be how you think. If you are expecting a fast ball, you will probably get a curve ball.

If the disaster area allows it I will hunker down and take a day at a time.

Sorry if this sounds like I'm attacking anyone, but I'm kind of frustrated about the whole subject.

Hunker down? Now you're a fixed target for every scavenger and raiding party out there. And thanks to the media pointing out the behaviors and tactics of "preppers," now they know where to start looking for you and how you think and operate. Private armies, foreign occupiers or rogue factions of the military will be looking to restock-are you going to hold them all off?

The biggest problem about preparing for bugging in or out is that its more work-and cost-than most people can handle.

Whenever I inquire about how to start being a prepper, I usually get advice like, "When you're at the grocery store for your weekly shopping, pick up a couple of extra cans of food." Wow. A couple of extra cans? Lets see. That means, for every week of food I buy, I'll be able to extend my life for...one day. Meanwhile, the descriptions by the serious preppers sound like they are rich people who can afford all those provisions and gear and who spend every spare moment teaching themselves new skills, training, building things, etc. Meanwhile, me and most of my friends barely make above minimum wage and by the end of the day, we don't feel like learning to make our own ammunition or whatever it is that preppers do for fun. I guess we're just lazy and will all die.

Bug out? Now you've got two options-stay mobile and keep resupplying, becoming one of the looters, or find somewhere out in the country. You better know how to completely be self-sufficient and off the grid...farming, hunting, cooking, sewing, building shelters, fixing machinery and vehicles, generating power, alternate forms of communication, entertaining yourself, medicine, concealment, weapons, hand-to-hand combat, orienteering, canning, first aid...and that's just off the top of my head. That describes maybe one person in a hundred thousand. I guess the rest of us will just die.

Bottom line-move to somewhere in the world that won't get nuked, EMP'd, flooded or suffer earthquakes. Someplace with a lot of rural, agricultural areas where the supply lines between producer and consumer are short. Some place where everybody around you doesn't have a crapload of guns. I will let you do your own research on that score.

reply to post by Snsoc


For food don't buy canned stuff, maybe a little but it won't last. It only has a few year shelf life. Get some sacks of rice and some sacks of beans. Just put those away in a cool dry place. That's all you need. If the SHTF after you run out of your regular food you'd have some additional food source for a while. I'd be more concerned about water. What's your secondary water source? Most people have none so they're screwed. If you have a house you could get some rain barrels under the evestroves which is a good idea. At least that would keep you going for a little while. I don't know I'm thinking like if you live in a city. If you live in the country that mgith be different as you could dig a well.

reply to post by Springer


Comforting to know you are alive and well.
Thank you for your thread.

May I be so bold as to make a few recommendations?

1. There is strength in numbers. AS LONG AS THERE IS SOBER LEADERSHIP.
The Majority of any given Populous in the Urban U.S.A. has survival skills of value.

2. The question of resources comes into the equation.

3. I am confident that The U.S. Military will provide MRE,Potable Water,Blankets,Meds, etc.
No lack of confidence there.

4.Delay Time: This is where you are on your own. Help/Order will arrive, but when?
This is the window for which you should be planning for your own individual family
needs for a 1 month minimum. Most impotantly Insulin/Meds that require refridgeration.
Non -Perishable Foods(Canned Goods,Etc.) are worth their weight in Gold.

5.Rural Property: A Cabin is always good. It worked for Abe Lincoln.
This life experience can be positively influential on Our Nation.

6. Well Water:
If you are so able or inclined to capture a nice spread of Rural Property,
you must first take into consideration Elevation,Soil Conditions,and Aquifer access.
An existing well, or well water rights are a must.

To be on the safe side, avoid potential "Fracking" Areas.

7.Community: It is generally good practice to employ a Professional Caretaker to not only
maintain your property,but to allow you a trusted "Eye" as to the Social Interactions
and Conditions of you Enviroment.

A Good Caretaker will also prove to be priceless when you are in times of need of
Firewood,Garden Vegetables,Livestock Management, and the like.
A Good Caretaker never allows the "Pipes to Freeze", is licensed in the matters
of Security, and will deter potential Hazards from ever forming.

Acts of God Withstanding, This is all I can share at the moment... Best,Wildmanimal

Originally posted by TKDRL
reply to post by olaru12

 

Curious, why a dirtbike? They are versatile and all, but how much experience do you have repairing one? Might be better off going with a mountain bike, don't have to worry about gas, or engine repair, or engine noise. Just a thought

Ummm....there are some fairly nice electric dirtbikes out there now. Also couple that with some of those flexible, rollup solar recharge systems, one or two of those small wind generators, (think sailboat) and you might have a reasonable short range, quiet system.
The problem is that your load capacity is fairly small on a bike, so many many trips, meaning leaving an ever larger footprint for others to follow. The "bug-out" bag scenario is decidedly a very short term plan. Any one with a bug out mentality has no doubt also prepared a number of cache locations.
To Answer your question Springer, it would have to be a combination of both and several for any viable long term strategy.
I dont at present recall the statistics, but during the great depression, most wild game species were hunted to near extinction and every one in the city will pour out into the hinterlands looking for that next meal........which just might be you. Gangs and ad-hock municipalities will be competing for infrastructure and stockpiles and WILL send fireteams out to secure resources. Millions and millions will die, disease will probably be the greatest competition for the human territorial instictualism. Survivors, ie., you, will witness first hand what never gets reported. The proclivity for degeneracy in a post apocolyptic scenario..........ALL of those buried baser instincts will crawl up out of the psyche and if you have a firm desire to survive, then it wont be through the vehicle of ascension. You will descend the the ladder of civilization, all while affirming evolutions "survival of the fittest".

YouSir

Originally posted by Springer


Since the "Survival" forum right here on AboveTopSecret.com is one of, if not the best resources for information on Prepping and Survival on the entire internet I thought I would pose the question to our resident experts to see what you all have to say..

It really isn't.

It depends on where you live, what land you own, what you're prepping for, and how mobile you are. There isn't really a best one size fits all solution, unless you own 50 acres and a castle. In which case, stay put!

Grey man is the way to go. Don't stand out in any way.

Originally posted by r2d246
reply to post by Snsoc

 

For food don't buy canned stuff, maybe a little but it won't last. It only has a few year shelf life. Get some sacks of rice and some sacks of beans. Just put those away in a cool dry place. That's all you need. If the SHTF after you run out of your regular food you'd have some additional food source for a while. I'd be more concerned about water. What's your secondary water source? Most people have none so they're screwed. If you have a house you could get some rain barrels under the evestroves which is a good idea. At least that would keep you going for a little while. I don't know I'm thinking like if you live in a city. If you live in the country that mgith be different as you could dig a well.

Ummm.....Not true...you can buy or produce canned food whose shelf life can be measured in decades. Yoders, an Omish canned meat company from Ohio sells all of your meat varieties in #10 cans and the shelf life is approx. 30 years,www.campingsurvival.com... (only one site, there are many) Provided you maintain the storage temperature/humidity, etc. For canning meat you NEED a (musthave)...a pressure vessel canning system and sterile containers. "All American" www.allamericancooker.com.... Truly the best, a gasketless pressure vessel. I own and use the seven quart/19 pintsize, well worth the expense.

YouSir

reply to post by Snsoc


I agree i guess most these people are loaded with money, i see on these pepper shows some of these people have family's to support and are still able to put over 50-100 thousand dollars in prepping stuff.

I don't know how people afford it or what kind of jobs they have. For us surviving pay check to pay check how do we compete with this?

Some people just have more money to throw around than others.

Plus there are some things prepping ain't gonna do a jack bit of good for. 1+ mile asteroid, gamma ray burst etc etc some things that could happen you can kiss your butt goodbye unless you are fifthly rich and have a underground facility.

If a asteroid comes such as the one that killed the dinosaurs your weapons, canned foods ect isn't gonna mean jack.

That said i think its good to prep within your financial means but to some that amounts to very little. Sad but more than likely its gonna be the rich who have the money to build underground bunkers and stock the crap out of it with the best chance.

BTW can anyone link me to the best affordable premade preppers kit they have seen? lol

We plan to stay at home if anything "not optimal" happens. We're in a pretty decent location, I'd only change a few things if I could, really. We prepare only for more "mundane" emergencies, anything trending toward major catastrophe, well, for us there are just too many scenarios and we can't prepare for everything.

If it doesn't involve needing to shelter from a blast, supervolcanic ash fallout, concerted high tech assault etc. we're probably good. We can "bug out locally" if we have to; caching supplies, hiking/camping/hunting/snaring equipment, knowing your local terrain/flora/fauna, and knowing how to use them are your friends. Oh yah and you can never have too many projectiles.

If there is major catastrophe, plan B is to:
#1 Bend over
#2 Spread your feet
#3 Grab your ankles
and
#4 Kiss your # goodbye

reply to post by HolgerTheDane2


You all are welcome to the party, if you're willing to pay the price for admission. I think it's so awesome you can "track IPs" through proxies/VPNs, btw.

reply to post by Springer


Good question. I'm glad I don't have to think about that kind of scenario given my situation, but speaking from my experience on living with people who "survive" as a way of life, here goes on my opinion:

1. Survival (also known as basic living let's say 110+ years ago) knowledge is superior to survival "stuff." If you having the working knowledge on how to find/grow/hunt/fish/trap AND store/preserve food as necessary (depending on geo-location/weather), then you're ahead of the game.

2. "Prepare" through practice. Start out with short camping trips to the wilderness where you know there is good water to drink straight or to filter. Get used to fetching water. Have a good tool to make firewood with. Get used to collecting wood. Have some food and pot to cook with on a campfire, use 3 stones (NOT river/wet) stones as "legs" for the pot above the burning wood/charcoal.

3. Salt is important for long term living. Imagine eating food without salt for over a month, and the potential health risks if neglected long enough.

4. Make sure anything you do has limited access. To address this threads topic of a bunker, if you build a bunker then keep it obscure (underground) or with limited access (no road.) Many "westernized" people are not used to long hikes and prefer driving as it is faster and easier. Making your bug out location only accessible by walking in is a good screening process. If you have to use a road, keep whatever you can out of sight. Road access is easy for any zombie to find you (same possibly for a highly used path)

5. To go back to #1 -- Know how to survive if you have no option and must leave your bug out place, and how/where to create a fire and shelter, and have wood to keep you through the night if it very cold. The situation may always arise where you may need to escape your (emergency plan name goes here) and you're left with only the basics -- fire starter/spark maker, big heavy knife/bolo/axe/whatever, and who knows what else, maybe. ETA: Water container(s)!!!!

Just my take, good topic and nicely detailed/written =)

Excellent thread!

After reading all the info and advice it seems I've been prepping for the past seventeen years. I'm not telling what I have done, what I am doing or what I plan to do. That would be rather self-defeating.

You may know my ip address, but you don't know me or my devious little mind.

I think I have been a little too diligent about throwing away the dryer lint. One is never too old to learn something new.

Cool thread - thanks!

I agree with the points about having to MOVE or be ready to MOVE at a moments notice in relation to building a bunker or bugging out.

If you look at the 2012 phenomenon as ongoing earth changes like increasing quakes,shifting weather patterns that involve massive rains/flooding etc I think, in that scenario, staying in any one spot, like a bunker, and hoarding too much food would be counter productive because you may be having to pick up and move a great deal because of the relative instability of all infrastructure and natural environment that are constantly disturbed by such a process.

At least I don't think it would be wise to hunker down TOO much.

/IMO

Sometimes I think its safer to bug-out in lots of different locations than be fixated in one location as there is always a chance any other survivors could end up where you are and cause more danger than its worth, if you can always be mobile and on the move you may have a better chance of survival.

reply to post by YouSir


Yeah you are right, there are some nice ones out there. Never thought of it, thanks. I like the zero x ones, but they sure are pricey.

I really hate to say this but if this world becomes so intolerable, I will commit the unimaginable....and no its not cannibalism.......

reply to post by Springer


Excellent idea...was thinking of something like this myself.....Id consider myself a survival nut to some extent...i have military experience, swat experience, and work in law enforcement. I can say with 100% certainty that people will kill you for your stuff at some point if it means them surviving. Two options exist:

If you bunker down you are familiar with the area, can better plan and prepare, maybe even get a survivalist community going. If you have enough wares stored you could really live comfortable for a year...but you have to sleep sometime. This is why if you stay...you need friends, family or someone who you can really trust to watch while you sleep. Unless you are in a harsh climate...i recommend hunkering down for sure if you are prepared. Moving around can open up all kinds of risks. However......

You have to have a "bug out" option....the land you live in could easily have a radiation cloud wander in after a nuclear attack or get hit hard with X disaster. You must have an option to move out...for me that is at least a half of tank of gas in any direction. I never let my tank go below half and i have a 4 wheel drive vehicle. If you are on foot you cant carry as much so essentials really become important here since if you dont find gas after your limit...you are on foot...and that is really not much weight at all. My bug out option involves me migrating to a warmer climate scavenging on the way, but it is very risky. No matter how much of a bad dude you are you do not want to be in a fire fight. I would avoid conflict at all costs even if you are good at what you do. It only takes a stray minor bullet to wound you which may lead to infection. It doesn't matter what guns you have...we are fragile beings. Avoid conflict unless its a must.

So what should you pack? My bug out bags consist of 2 large rubber made containers and a set up back pack. I could literally grab my containers and backpack with 2 guns and ammo in probably 5 mins if I really pushed....My vehicle would be loaded and I could get out fast...its that quick if I had to...If I had a little more time id fill up my extra containers with water. Items listed loosely in order of importance.

Backpack...contains: large first aid kit, 2 very good knives, saw, hatchet, probably 100-200 yrds of thin rope (550 chord), medium tarp with bungee chords (this is my roof/tent..its all you need and its light and can be used to get water, but thats a whole other topic), probably 10 lighters, compass, maps, water purification tablets and water filter straws, spare set of clothing warm/cold, extra socks, tiny fold up saw, lots of candles. With this pack alone I conquer everything I need but food.

Containers: white rice, honey, white vinegar, noodles, sugar, salt, mres...and tons of it, I also have utensils and a couple pots and pans and a kind of grill plate thingy haha...probably enough food for a couple months.

Weapons: I recommend a pistol and a rifle....doesnt matter what you get as long as you are familiar with it, can maintain it, have ammo for it, and it can kill a human as well as an animal for hunting. Oh I forgot id carry a siphon and small container for gas....there will be abandoned cars on the way to siphon. Also dont get over done with shelter...there will be abandon buildings everywhere with an increasing rate..a tarp will do fine...I also have a cot packed away as well but its heavy...good for the car but not to carry.

This is not a hugely expensive set up at all and should keep you alive for 2 months in a bugout situation with no scavenging.

If you are staying home....add kerosene heaters and solar panels....man solar panels are awesome...learn how they work...i also store tons of pdf books and ebooks on my computer and phone which can be charged with a solar panel...so i have a library of survival at my fingertips. Generators make noise...they will draw attention. You will eventually need to find fresh water...if you don't live by one then fill up all your containers immidetaly then plan to get to fresh water eventually...I really feel you have to make it one year before things let up...after 1 year the planet will have nothing but survivalists left..and that could be a very dangerous scenario as well because everyone left standing has at least some wits about them. You can't prepare for every scenario..and if you die...well crap you died....but go out fighting guys and gals...you owe it to the species to survive.

To answer your original question.....You can't just prepare one way.... you have to be ready to bug out or bunker down...period. Good luck and if anyone is from Central Illinois PM if you want to get a little survival group going...Im considering trying to get like minded people together....be safe all.

Originally posted by cosmicexplorer
reply to post by Springer

 

So what should you pack? My bug out bags consist of 2 large rubber made containers and a set up back pack. I could literally grab my containers and backpack with 2 guns and ammo in probably 5 mins if I really pushed....My vehicle would be loaded and I could get out fast...its that quick if I had to...If I had a little more time id fill up my extra containers with water. Items listed loosely in order of importance.

Backpack...contains: large first aid kit, 2 very good knives, saw, hatchet, probably 100-200 yrds of thin rope (550 chord), medium tarp with bungee chords (this is my roof/tent..its all you need and its light and can be used to get water, but thats a whole other topic), probably 10 lighters, compass, maps, water purification tablets and water filter straws, spare set of clothing warm/cold, extra socks, tiny fold up saw, lots of candles. With this pack alone I conquer everything I need but food.

Containers: white rice, honey, white vinegar, noodles, sugar, salt, mres...and tons of it, I also have utensils and a couple pots and pans and a kind of grill plate thingy haha...probably enough food for a couple months.

This is one of the more sensible (imo) postings I have read. You seem to understand that weight DOES add up, and have probably done this before. My bag is packed similar to yours, except for less warm clothing and no water filtration tools (clean spring water is no problem here.)

Also on your food, spot on -- rice (dry, light and filling), and other less heavy items, though MREs are heavy and should be eaten first or saved for emergency when you can't cook. Heavy though! However, food, water and shelter are key and you have a grasp on that, except I don't see as much of an emphasis on water.

I also pack (hang on my bag) empty 5 or 6 liter plastic water jug bottles. They are basically no weight and having easily transportable, large water containers is a must for me, unless my camp is next to the spring which is very cold at night and is not advisable to camp next to water here. I really don't like having to walk to the water source before going to sleep and would rather have my water next to me =)

Bug Out now if you are in the city and then Hunker down in your new destination. There are way too many variables to simply bugging out (govt checkpoints and pirate roadblocks) and yet hunkering down in your bunker can make you a prisoner in your own home and an easy target to be burned or bombed out. The biggest advantage of hunkering down is a superior defense and stored resources while the advantage of bugging out is thru the use of evasive tactics.