Preppers in 2012, to build a bunker or "Bug Out", that is the question.

With all the attention (for good or ill) that cable television has given Survivalists, now known in the lexicon as "Preppers" (I'm still not sure I like that name), there seems to be somewhat of a debate about whether to stockpile supplies and build a bunker or, stockpile enough to get you and yours through but, be mobile and ready to move out if necessary.

Since the "Survival" forum right here on AboveTopSecret.com is one of, if not the best resources for information on Prepping and Survival on the entire internet I thought I would pose the question to our resident experts to see what you all have to say..

ATS Supermod and genuine survival expert "semperfortis" and I have had several conversations on this topic and I can see both sides.

There is always the potential for a disaster to cause people who are not responsible enough or financially capable to make sure they have the bare necessities to consider looting. I personally hold that out as a certainty based on the historical and even contemporary record (Long Island this week). I would hope (and believe) all of us would help our neighbors but I'm not thinking about neighbors, word spreads fast and far and there are lots of rotten apples in humanity's basket. I could see gangs of thugs looking to start little fiefdoms by having what everyone else needs.

Looking at it from that perspective I can see a bunker as huge target asking to be attacked in the event of a major, nationwide catastrophe, especially one that knocks the grid off line or, halts the transportation of goods for more than a month for whatever reason.

Unless you have several acres of land out in the boonies, I don't believe you'll ever able to completely hide the fact you've got what is essentially a warehouse full of all the stuff everyone else will want and many will need to make it through alive. In a wide spread disaster you'll have to be prepared to defend it, that likely means physical confrontation. Even if you build a bunker that is super fortified there will always be a way in given enough time and motivation. In an "end of the world as we know it" scenario there will be lots of time.

On the other hand, I can also see how having to pack up and "bug out" as they call it in the vernacular, is a pretty risky proposition too. A truck loaded up with goodies is a nice target too. Another issue is if you don't own land "out there", where are you going? What's the plan once you've escaped the more densely populated area you seek to leave to avoid looters? Squat on someone else's land? I guess there is plenty of Federal land that the government is not going to be patrolling so there is that possibility, but, you become a target there too unless you're fortunate enough to get so far out in the boonies nobody else is around. That requires lots of fuel which is something else you have to bring with you at the load expense of food and tools. I don't see an easy choice here, both options carry risks and benefits.

An interesting conundrum that I imagine most people's current circumstances will dictate for them, but, what if you have the option to do one or the other? What's the best way to go? What's the best way to prepare for, stay put or get out of Dodge?

Springer...

reply to post by Springer


It all depend on where you live etc building a bunker in your backyard may get a couple of dozen people trying to get in like you said.
It also depends on what type of SHTF situation happens, certain ones I would not even bother trying to survive.
If SHTF did happen I live in the UK, a small island with 68 million people on it so I do not think I would be in a good place.
I have a bug out bag and have a decent place to go but it wouldn't be safe for long.
Oh sod it bring on Mad max times I always wanted a Mohawk

Im buggin out to the retreat. we dont really have a bunker but a retreat out in the boonys. Next house over is 1/2 mile away and everyone up there is prepping. It makes it easy when everyone is in the same mind set. We help each other out up there.

you need to be in a place where you can grow food and run cattle, chickens, pigs, ect... if the SHTF, gas stops, trucks stop, and food stops. you got to learn to live off the land. one year of food supplys has a down fall, it only last one year and it takes up alot of room.

Living in Central Florida, I don't see bugging in as an option. I hope to be able to foresee the danger and get out of dodge prior to actual collapse.

A few people have said that once your bunker is found, your death is inevitable. And when people are in that sort of survival scenario, they will find you eventually.

Not a big time survivalist, but it would be better in my very limited knowledge, to have two or three safe spots to go to that are somewhat supplied. Move around weekly/daily to all locations with essential gear being on your person.

You could scope them out before you advance to make sure they are secure. If one place gets occupied or looted, you have several other places available to live in. As to what kind of facilities they are would be up to you.


I still have this vision of all ATSer’s leaving survival gear hidden in different locations throughout the world, somehow getting the maps to said locations out to its members just prior to/right after a big event occurred. Helping anyone left on this board to make it through the aftermath.

I know, it’s a pipe dream, but, we do have a great member base here……

Anyhow, more knowledgeable people will be along shortly…..

Thanks,
Blend57

Me...when comes time, nobody will know when I'm gone

Shelter is one of the most important means of survival.

Unless your home is destroyed ,or your personal safety is at risk,hunker down and stay put.

In theory, either strategy could work, under the right circumstances.

However, planning to bug out without a prepared destination in not bugging out. It is becoming a refuge and survival is questionable.

And planning to hunker down and "bug in" in an urban setting is also asking for trouble. Especially the two-legged predator kind.

My feeling the best solution is to have a remote retreat and live there full time. It should be defensible and provisioned for the long haul.

The next best solution would be to live in town and have a pre-provisioned retreat location, reliable transportation and a bug out bag with you at all times. Have several planned routes to your retreat and go there often. Get yourself there before the stuff hits the fan.

Personally, I live about 30 miles away from the middle of nowhere. I telecommute a few days out of the week, but go into the city a couple days per week too. I always carry my "get home" bag. It's never more than 100 feet away from me.

Originally posted by AnonymousCitizen
In theory, either strategy could work, under the right circumstances.

However, planning to bug out without a prepared destination in not bugging out. It is becoming a refuge and survival is questionable.

And planning to hunker down and "bug in" in an urban setting is also asking for trouble. Especially the two-legged predator kind.

My feeling the best solution is to have a remote retreat and live there full time. It should be defensible and provisioned for the long haul.

The next best solution would be to live in town and have a pre-provisioned retreat location, reliable transportation and a bug out bag with you at all times. Have several planned routes to your retreat and go there often. Get yourself there before the stuff hits the fan.

Personally, I live about 30 miles away from the middle of nowhere. I telecommute a few days out of the week, but go into the city a couple days per week too. I always carry my "get home" bag. It's never more than 100 feet away from me.

I agree with you.
My answer was just a simplified one.
It would be to good to have a secondary place,or a plan in place to evacuate.
But a place within reasonable distance to travel to by foot,if need being.
Then multiple routes of escape from there,if the need arises.

Points to consider..
Always,if you can,and if you have a car,keep it topped off.You see whats going on in NJ and NY right now with the gas shortages.

Keep a case of some bottle water and some canned goods,soups mainly,enough for a week.If you have to bug out you can take with you what you can carry.

A water purifier is a must as is a means to start a fire.

Make sure you include everyone in your plans and that they all have they're own bug out bag in case you are separated.

That's just a few,simple things that anyone can do

We have some pretty serious food and basic supplies in our home. Lots and lots of firewood (8 face cords all hardwood too)

If this scenario ever came to fruit we are prepared to stay put, but we also have the means to "bug out"
if it was absolutely needed to do so.

For that we have our food stash, a heavy duty 4x4 that holds 100 liters of fuel, and we always keep at least 75 liters of fuel in storage ready to go in the back of the truck.


I guess it would depend on the situation at hand weather to go or stay.
Our personal feelings are it is best to stay put here in our home unless it gets really really dangerous.

We live in a city but our neighbourhood is very tight as in everybody knows everybody.
Safety in numbers they say.

Then on the other hand there could be very serious consequences to living in an area with high density as that means more people with possible lack of means to survive.

Our location is in Canada and I can say with assurance that we would be good here in our home for the better part of 6 months summer or winter.

After that if the crap is still hitting the fan I figure we are all dead and we did our best.

Very interesting post and most difficult to respond to as I see no real answer, by time we understand the dilemma at hand it may very well be too late to act in a appropriate fashion to save your life.

Regards, Iwinder

That old axiom, If you fail to plan, you plan to fail is very important to consider in this situation. I know a lot of people who have no plan and don't plan on thinking it through. I use to be a training instructor for the airlines and we trained flight attendants repetitively until every safety issue was drilled into them. Their responses became reflex. They didn't have to stop and think about what to do. They followed a very carefully thought out response to emergencies. 95% of their training was about emergency response, 5% about how to operate the ovens and how to serve food. The same goes for military training, etc. Without a plan people are prone to panic and make really bad decisions. There are also those who exhibit stationary panic. They become overwhelmed with fear and indecision and become emotionally paralyzed. A lot of people are not willing to put a plan together. They are afraid to think about the possibilities, especially worst case scenarios! I encourage my ATS brothers and sisters make a plan!

I'm prepping by scanning the internet - including ATS - for descriptions and pictures of secure locations made by other preppers.
I'm paying special attention to pictures with a view of the surrounding area. I have a friend in Anonymous who tracks their IP's and from that we build a map of prepper places.

I have invested in counter surveillance equipment to spot their electronic surveillance systems and my good old EMP-device, built from descriptions found on the internet, can take out any electronic system they might have.

My portable plasma cutter will help me make the holes and my portable pump will help me fill the dugouts with water. They won't escape because I will weld their doors shut first.
After two days MAX I will have my own storage facility. When that runs out it's on to the next one.

EDIT:
I forgot to tell you guys. Those Prepper Markets are a gold mine of information. Even preppers pay by credit card, so it's rather easy to find them. Not to mention the poor sods who order a truckload delivered.

I believe the best thing is become nomadic. A bunker is a target.

Like Boymonkey74 I live in the UK, and reckon dependent upon the circumstances the best bet would be to do as most in the US would do, and try to find somewhere in the countryside.

I live in a city, which when the riots occurred last year, had pockets of people trying to start a riot, thankfully it failed.

So for me it would be rucksacks at the ready, and a three man pop up tent...hiding in our green and pleasant land.

After a bit, maybe try and find an army base or something, and offer up my skills (someone has to do the washing) in return for limited protection (closest you can get to gun ownership here in the UK I reckon) and shelter.

Of course this is by no means a plan, and probably a really bad plan....Maybe anyone more knowledgeable could give me some pointers ?

Bear in mind there would be two small people in tow .

Sensible preparation means getting at least 250 miles from the ocean, at least 650' above sea level, putting down supplies of all kinds, getting far from large population centres, moving west of the Mississippi but stay in central USA. We can expect some high x-ray periods, so some protection underground would be nice.

reply to post by Springer


Here's my basic 3 step plan:

1) get away from the oceans
2) get away from fault lines
3) get away from highly populated areas

Beyond that I think everything else is pretty much pointless... because it all depends on the disaster in question. If you build a bunker and the Earth experiences a massive tremor everyone underground will be crushed. And I think bugging out and running into the bush is just as dangerous. You need a secure home base which can hold food and provide you with a safe place to sleep.

Would I build a bunker? It's a little late to do that now.
Unless you have the resources to build fast.
Bug out? That's already been planned for years.
It should've been a backup plan for everyone by now.

We have to be able to adapt to any situation.

If a crisis forms and people freak out, you must be able to get to your designated location quickly.
Therefore, "bugging out" in my definition, means to get from where you are at to where you are going.
Not necessarily leaving your bunker/home, just getting to it.

Everything depends on your particular location if said event would take place.
If you are already home, then you would just hunker down and try to survive.
If you are at work or away from home, you need a way to get back and fast.
Routes should've been planned and even thought about beforehand.
How to effectively walk/run to your location...or drive.
Once a person makes it to their home/bunker, then a person could decide what to do.
Running to the hills, or standing their ground.

That all depends on the crisis at hand.
To me, bugging out is a last resort.
It's much harder to survive in the wilderness.
Plus carrying all your gear isn't easy either.
But that's why you practice...

Everything depends on whats gone wrong, fires/floods/zombies/hello kitty dolls coming to life....who knows so your plans will always be based on what you know of your local area, for me theres no chance of floods as when the river trent breaches its banks we would of had the biggest rain storm ever and it would still have to reach another 100 ft before i'd be scared for my parents and by that point 90% of the UK would be underwater so i can rule out certain problems but can people in other areas do the same? the trick is to look at the local area and see what could or couldn't happen and plan accordingly

my 2 cents
1...learn to control your fear
2...learn how to hide
3...learn how to be silent
the last thing you need is confrontation...it could cause you and/or people around you harm. it alerts others to your whereabouts. it expends resources. if violence is your last resort, it should be done as quietly as possible, with the least amount of interaction.
the rest is a matter of the proper equipment and supplies for your own particular mental and physical well-being, for your own location, and for the particular disaster.

reply to post by ChaoticOrder


Here's what bugs me. If the world goes to # by a hyper quake. I couldn't say if Australia is really safe or will be #ed up hyper hard.