Why throwing a blanket statement against Masons is not a good idea.

When Jimmy Saville was outed as a pedophile, everyone jumped on the bandwagon of bashing him. Good. Anyone who would hurt a child deserves no mercy in any respect. But at some point, somewhere, some idiot decided to claim that Saville was a Freemason. He is not. He was not, not was he ever.

I don't know if anyone here can remember the Duke Lacrosse incident a few years ago. A woman claimed she was gang raped by the Lacrosse team and a witch hunt ensued. The media acted as judge, jury, and executioner to these young men. In everyone's eye's they were guilty.

Until... the woman who made the charges was found to be lying. It seems she made up the whole thing.

But now, when you hear some mention of Duke Lacrosse, the first thing that you think of is rapists.

Nothing short of time will erase that stigma from the wrongfully accused boys. Money won't bring back their reputation, "I'm sorry" doesn't seem to cut it either.

If you want to sling accusations about a group of people, be damn sure you know your facts.

Make not mistake, the guilty should pay. And the innocent should no have to live with a false label.

Sure, use one example of a woman who cried wolf to disregard all pervert Masons.

We all agree not every Mason is a monster - Then again - We all agree A LOT of them are.

Agreed.
No one needs to be wrongfully crucified.

Originally posted by ObservingYou
Sure, use one example of a woman who cried wolf to disregard all pervert Masons.

We all agree not every Mason is a monster - Then again - We all agree A LOT of them are.

How many can you prove are monsters?

You can use the news, or any other source to prove your post, but I suspect you have empty accusations.
Have there ever been bad masons? Sure there have. But not very many at all. It's people like you that make these threads necessary.

And who is WE?

That is all well and good,
but what about Anders Brievik,
the KKK, and other affiliations?

What about the Great London Fire,
Seattle Great Fire --
charity is such a good business,
with such great disasters playing out.

I donated money to the Masons about three months ago, only a tiny bit,
but that doesn't mean I don't freak out when people say things about:
A.) Racism, B.) Sexism, C.) Monopolies, D.) Ignorance

Also, a question for masons: how could my family have descended from them if they don't le trash in?
My great grandfather was a Mason and a WWII (normandy beach!) vet -- but none of his descendants have lived such a life, none have been an example like him..


Where are the strong people who build this country? I don't see them anymore

reply to post by network dude


"We" is people that can see past the bull.

I don't have time today to point you to the evidence, if countless witness testimony is not good enough for you - What is?

That's in regards to high profile pedophile rings that have been uncovered. I'm sure you won't need reminding of some of the stories that have hit the head lines over the years?

Not to mention the COUNTLESS stories that never reach the day light.

"Throwing a blanket" - Haven't you just done the same via picking ONE case study?

But even if 30 high ranking Mason were publicly exposed tomorrow - you'd still defend your brotherhood wouldn't you? Because "Its not all Masons".

As JFK said - We oppose secrecy, and your brotherhood defends it.

There's a social complex already.

Originally posted by KhufuKeplerTriangle
That is all well and good,
but what about Anders Brievik,

He was a mason. he is an example of a bad mason. he is one man.

the KKK, and other affiliations?

What about the KKK?
Freemasonry has nothing to do with that group. If you do more than a first hit google search on that topic, you will find that Albert Pike did not have anything to do with the KKK either. that's a prime example of a rumor run amok.

What about the Great London Fire,
Seattle Great Fire --

I'm sorry, WHAT? WTF does masonry have to do with fires?

charity is such a good business,
with such great disasters playing out.

I donated money to the Masons about three months ago, only a tiny bit,
but that doesn't mean I don't freak out when people say things about:
A.) Racism, B.) Sexism, C.) Monopolies, D.) Ignorance

Also, a question for masons: how could my family have descended from them if they don't le trash in?
My great grandfather was a Mason and a WWII (normandy beach!) vet -- but none of his descendants have lived such a life, none have been an example like him..


Where are the strong people who build this country? I don't see them anymore

I cannot speak to the character of your family.

reply to post by ObservingYou


I didn't think you would be able to "find the time".

People like you never do.

And if you care to learn, check out the entirety of the JFK speech. He wasn't against secrets or secret societies, He was a member of one.

reply to post by network dude


I don't see any reason for people to jump on the mason hate bandwagon. They're just people. Good, bad, neutral I'm sure all types are amongst the ranks. I'm so sick of the accusations you folks endure.

The way I see it is that Freemasons built this country. There is no reason for them to be some sort of creepy shadow government, when they created this government. It just doesn't make any sense. I understand the mistrust of secret societies, since the mind tends to think the worst when there are unknown variables.

Anyhow, it's not fair, and I'm sorry you guys get a bum rap so often.

reply to post by network dude


My attention to detail is fine - It appears yours however is not.

I did not say how JFK felt - That section of his speech was speaking on behalf of the people.

And its a true and fair assessment.

People that paint all Masons with the same brush are just like people who are racist, or bigoted, or homophobic. People come in all flavors and that applies to Masons too.

The reason why people shouldn't make blanket statements about anythingis because blanket statements are lazy at best and show poor reasoning at worst.

As I said on that particular thread, some paedophiles were Masons. So what? Pre-digital cameras, a lot of paedophiles were also camera buffs and had home 'dark rooms'. Does this tell anything about camera enthusiasts, or does it tell us something about paedophiles? It's this kind of logical fallacy that allows people to think all Jews are in on a secret plan against the rest of the world. That all blacks are lazy* or thieves. That all Muslims are suicidal bombers. Most of the richest, most powerful people in the world are, usually white, men in their late middle-age. Does this mean that all middle-aged white men are obscenely powerful?

No different with Masons and paedophiles.


*Weird how these lazy blacks are also so good at basketball, athletics, boxing, marathons - to pitch one stereotype against another.

William Morgan (1774–1826?) was a resident of Batavia, New York, whose disappearance and presumed murder in 1826 ignited a powerful movement against the Freemasons, a secret fraternal society that had become influential in the United States. After Morgan announced his intention to publish a book exposing Freemasonry's secrets, he was arrested, kidnapped by Masons, and believed murdered.

reply to post by network dude


this is why you dont say anything bad about the frree masons

en.wikipedia.org...

reply to post by network dude


If a group has secrets, or professes to have secrets in some way, founded on secrets, whatever, then they are going to be targets by lesser minds. And no, I'm not a mason.

The problem as I see it, is that people don't think before they say/type something. As a result, someone picks up on what is originally said and takes it elsewhere, then you get a case of chinese whispers. Things like facebook/twitter should be shut down in my opinion.

Once it's said, its said, you can't take it back. Sorry won't always cut it.

reply to post by DocHolidaze


I think if we killed everyone who got their panties in a wad over our fraternity, there might be some evidence of a crime. Or this would be a very, very boring forum.

Originally posted by ObservingYou
Sure, use one example of a woman who cried wolf to disregard all pervert Masons.

We all agree not every Mason is a monster - Then again - We all agree A LOT of them are.

"A Lot"

I don't know a single one, and I know hundreds, and have met thousands.

And for the record, he used two examples.

reply to post by DocHolidaze


If only it were that simple.

And, that guy didn't just say bad stuff, he violated his blood oath. He agreed to be murdered in advance. We're sweet like that.

reply to post by KhufuKeplerTriangle

Anders Brievik only attended 4 meetings as a Mason (3 of them were his initiations). He was a bad apple, but he was a Mason in name only. His views and actions do not reflect the Fraternity's views.

The KKK is not an affiliated body of Freemasonry.

What about those fires? Are you saying Masons started those disasters?

I can't speak to the character of your family, but not everyone who joins takes the lessons to heart and lives a Masonic life.

Where are the strong people who build this country? I don't see them anymore.

There have been threads on some prominent Masonic forums talking about this very thing.

reply to post by ObservingYou

I wasn't going to respond, but looking at some of your points, I feel compelled to correct the errors I see.

Witness testimony is not always credible and is the least credible of evidence brought in trials. Plus, just because lots of people tell the same lie doesn't make it true. I'm not saying these witnesses are lying, but rather in general. Just because a lie is told many times over doesn't mean it should be taken as fact.

I wouldn't care what their degree or rank was, if they broke the law they should face the consequences.

As JFK said - We oppose secrecy, and your brotherhood defends it.

Actually if you read his entire speech you'd see he was against a secretive government who wasn't transparent, but he also spoke of the responsibilities of the media in what they reported.

Just before he said the overused and misused words he said the following:

This deadly challenge imposes upon our society two requirements of direct concern both to the press and to the President--two requirements that may seem almost contradictory in tone, but which must be reconciled and fulfilled if we are to meet this national peril. I refer, first, to the need for a far greater public information; and, second, to the need for far greater official secrecy.

Originally posted by Merriman Weir
The reason why people shouldn't make blanket statements about anythingis because blanket statements are lazy at best and show poor reasoning at worst.

Very well put.

reply to post by DocHolidaze

** Facepalm **

Originally posted by network dude
I think if we killed everyone who got their panties in a wad over our fraternity, there might be some evidence of a crime.

You and your nunchucks would have a field day.

Back, sorry.

Okay, to focus my questions a bit more, I will ask this: what organization in America enjoys as much privacy, secrecy, yet openness (lodges and temples etc. everywhere!) than the Masons?

And do Masons consider segregation and misogynistic practice to be consistent with the morality of the times?
Until very recently, Prince Hall was the only african american path available, and women still have to join separate orders and never get to enjoy the "knowledge" shared by "brothers". Yet women suffer and toil in the same world, as does the black.

I guess those are the only questions I have for now.
Over and out.