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Sovereignty resides IN the people

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posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 06:07 AM
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reply to post by Dynamike
 


To be honest; I wanted to puke at the mind controlled, patriotic garbage in this post....




posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 06:47 AM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


Hey Heff, we all are domestic Terrorists....



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 08:24 AM
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Originally posted by VeritasAequitas
reply to post by phroziac
 


Because that is not proper english; why bother beating it into your head for 12 years if it doesn't even matter in the 'grown up world'? I seriously think that people are brainwashed; and this scenario augments that belief. If the Government, Established Mainstream Story theory ever gets contradicted; people take the rebuttal of the 'Mainstream' opposed to hearing both sides. Most of you should also know that there are things detrimental to TTPB, and will not be found on simple Google searches.

en.wikipedia.org...

No court case has ever been won on this grounds. Could it possibly be a holdover from before the shift key was invented? Perhaps its a tradition from ancient roman common law, which our legal system is based on, in a country that spoke latin, which only had capital letters?



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 08:25 AM
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Originally posted by mytheroy
reply to post by Hefficide
 


Hey Heff, we all are domestic Terrorists....


I love how the fbi website says sovereign citizens have killed 6 law enforcement officers since 01. Damn terrorists.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 09:34 AM
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Originally posted by Hefficide

It is my custom to enter threads on this topic and post a reminder... The FBI classifies "sovereign citizens" as domestic terrorists.

My research has yet to show me a single American citizen who has accomplished much of anything positive by following these ideas. Many swear they've been let out of traffic stops or even beaten a ticket using these tactics. But, beyond that....

Quite a high risk to take to avoid a speeding fine IMO.

~Heff
Ummm.....They also classify returning vets, anyone who doesn't care to be felt up by TSA, fiscal or moral conservatives, Constitutionalists, etc, etc, etc, ad nauseum as domestic terrorists. Do you make a point of telling the cross stich country clatch that they're domestic terrorists as well? How about Vets, it's Veterans day wkend, are you going to declare us all domestic terrorists? Who gives a flying spit about the FBI's terror list, I'm sure YOUR on it just like everybody else in the country. Their criteria sheet is so broad brushing that it includes every stripe of the political rainbow.....It's all a joke, just not a funny funny, ha ha.

YouSir



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 09:49 AM
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reply to post by Dynamike
 

I don't mean to be offensive,but that was one of the most retarded replies I have ever heard on this site.

I repeat,I don't mean to be offensive,but IMHO,that was pretty dumb.

Sounds like the classic ignorant american. saying "America,Love it or Leave it".

The classic caged animal that doesn't know it's in a cage response.

Don't talk to me about serving my country by the way,I am disabled from doing exactly that,from when I was too ignorant to realize the majority of you nasty little animals don't deserve anyone's sacrifice.

Rethink that thing you call freedom,cuz you don't know what it means.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 01:14 PM
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No one told me to agree with the principles that our country was built on. I learned to appreciate them after traveling to other countries and learning of how governments operated in world history. Do I agree with all of the countries laws and ideals? Absolutely not. I dont agree with many of the laws governing insurance, welfare, social security, commerce, gun control, and drug control to name a few.

I wouldnt consider myself patriotic. I am very passive and neutral with all things. I keep an open mind and consider arguments when presented no matter how absurd they are.

That being said I found your argument to lack substance. You have no definition of what you disagree with like what I listed above. You say you are not free but dont give any credence to your argument. You downright oppose law without listing any alternative measure or reason for doing so. Based on that information I perceive your belief system as this:

You are an anarchist. You oppose laws just because they place barriers on what you can do without realizing what they also protect you from. If the country were ran how you wanted it to it would be a much different place. There would be no policing. If police had no power to stop or identify people then they could not develop probable cause for arrest. Therefore the 40% of Americans who depend on government hand outs such as food and shelter will be next looking for people that have earned those things on their own. They will rob, steal, and kill to get what they want because that is the nature of humans. This would happen because the government could no longer tax its people. Without income all government positions would be lost and therefore no government to control the people.

After this occurs there would be an invasion, most likely by China. They would take control of the country and establish their own government. At first there would be extreme measures. People would die in a power struggle. But that would soon be lost as the Chinese government took control over US military bases. The Chinese people would restore order in their way- Communism. Under Communism you would see what freedom really is.

Again; are you completely free? No. There are laws that dictate how everyone should behave. If you dont appreciate that then you can try to live in another country or in the wild and find out which you prefer. Its that simple.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by phroziac
 


You don't know that no court case has ever been won and neither does Wikipedia. However I am sure you will argue that anyone who was to vouch for this personally is probably just a liar.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 01:22 PM
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reply to post by Dynamike
 


You realized that the Constitution afforded none of these jurisdictions or rights to Big Government; right?



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 01:32 PM
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This is a place for discussion,and I would like to add:

Any organization which takes resources against ones will,accepts donations for it's operations,or operates on an unlimited budget through the collection of taxes......

Tends to be a mediocre organization.

You can name most any agency,corporation,government.Not a one worth a fart in the wind.

I refuse to be controlled by mediocrity disguised as government,church,charities....

....funny thing,I already know how to act,whether anyone thinks I owe something because of implied benefit or not.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 03:40 AM
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reply to post by VeritasAequitas
 


I suppose you're right. But regulations tend to always be playing catch up to the ever changing society we have today; for instance internet piracy of digital media. Sad to say but I foresee the government stepping in on those boundaries too in the near future. Mostly because people cant be trusted to not pirate copy written material. Its hard to say whos ethically right or wrong when things get tangled up so much like they are now. I just hope one day everything will be free like in the Star Trek universe. Maybe then we can work on bettering ourselves intellectually instead of monetarily because thats basically what its all about nowadays. Its all about the power of the dollar.

BTW I like your second quote. I looked it up and spent some time reading about Bill Hicks. Interesting stuff.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 06:54 AM
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reply to post by daddio
 


Dear friend I agree with you 100%. Yes we Americans are sovereign. The only problem I see with this whole picture is that in about ten years with the constant influx of illegals and the offspring they produce, we Americans will become a minority.

The problem then becomes, will those immigrants and their offspring be duty bound to the constitution and feel as patriotic as we all? Will they care if we are sovereign? Fact is that all they care about is surviving. The main reason borders are unprotected is that the spanification of America is planned so that the American culture and its beliefs become watered down to the point where no one will ever give a damn about the constitution.

So the question becomes, what are you really willing to do about it. Voicing your opinion I'm sorry is not going to help, if you catch my drift.

Simply my honest opinion, I hope I havent offended anyone. Truth is all sheep end up in the slaughter house eventually.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 07:31 AM
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Dear OP,

Yes, the PEOPLE is sovereign. But you alone aren't.

The nation serves the PEOPLE, and are elected by the PEOPLE, not just by one human.

When an immigrant is granted citizenship, he becomes a part of the PEOPLE, regardless if he is white, brown, black or yellow, or rich, or poor, or male, or female, etc, etc.

You alone or a few of you can decide how you want your lives to be managed, or not to be managed at all, BUT it will be the COLLECTIVE - the People who will through the system of democracy, to decide ultimately the course and direction of society, not just upon the whims and fancies of a few.

WE, the PEOPLE....begins the preamble of the sacred Constitution, written and paid in blood by thousands of brave forefathers -yours and mine, so that all men created equal shall be free.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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reply to post by daddio
 


Thabk you for the post, I'm really interested to do further research. Being a thinking American, I know all these things are true, just not whether or not you can do it without being imprisoned, killed, or losing everything (through forced confiscation or lengthy losing court battles with the criminals.)

I've never truly researched it. Are these things you really CAN do, or things you should be able to do but won't be able to without falling prey to the illegal behavior of government and enforcement agencies? I know we can fight for our rights, but dad in jail while mom and baby starve and freeze to death isn't an option for me. Not trying to be sarcastic, I realize "they" count on there being a very small percentage of the population with "nothing to lose", and the wherewithal to fight the good fight. To me, its always been a tactic of theirs to keep us "comfortable enough" to stay in line.

Would it be noble to live off the land, off the grid, and be "free?" Absolutely. Do I want it? No. I want my house, my land, heating and air conditioning and classic cars and vacations with my family. I want those things, WITH freedom?

Does your post mean there is a way to live the life we enjoy...WITH those things, without a violent overthrow of the government, which would only lead to my death, and the death of my family? There are people willing to lay down their lives - i'm simply not one of them, but I too desire the freedom which is rightfully mine.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 09:53 AM
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reply to post by daddio
 


This is an outstanding point!

Most americans do not understand the concept of sovereignty. Worse, they see the government as being sovereign, but the individual not.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 01:25 PM
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The easiest way to tell that you are a slave is the national debt that is $16 trillion and growing. The bankers decide what the interest rates should be after they get an opinion from the credit agencies. Before george bush sr and then george bush jr the debt was approximately half what it is today. 911 was a goddamn false flag that many know but few speak about. Talk about a conspiracy out in the open that has been swept under the carpet.

What is there to discuss about? I think the "free man on the land" movement is worth looking into just to get ideas, but probably not worth the hassle&risk to follow up on. If a civil war ever breaks out in america, which looks likely, the first terrorists to be round up would be these fools, taken to fema camps for re-education(to put it mildely). Then the communists and libertarians. PTB hate extemists because they are not easily manipulated by the serpent.

The best way to fight corruption and make the government accountable to the majority of citizens is make your voice heard everywhere and vote smartely. Voting for democrats and republicans all the time is probably dumb and shows a sheepish mentality. Take the msm to task for why they are not covering the third party debate and demand they do otherwise.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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Originally posted by six67seven

Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by daddio
 

That all makes sense, but I don't understand why anyone would need a fully automatic machine gun? That's the only part I don't get. There are a lot of very dumb and very crazy people in the states and they shouldn't have access to fully automatic weapons.


It could be just a few short years before you understand why anyone would need a fully automatic machine gun.

Now, most gun owners do not own fully automatic machine guns, its very atypical.

Regarding your 'lot of dumb and very crazy people in the states' comment... maybe we should restrict their access to voting boothes.... see what I did there?


Actually a machine gun is a bad idea because it is a waste of ammunition and gives you a false sense of security. One shot, one kill should the motto of any serious gun owner. If not that means you need more practice or don't deserve a gun in the first place.

If I want maximum protection against an invading mob, my best option would be grenades. That is what grenades were designed for. Some are better than others. I think it is against the law to own grenades though. Too bad!



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 09:13 PM
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Originally posted by IsawWHATtheyDID
the whole ucc filing thing is a trap. if someone wants to free themselves, why would they try and gain one of the instruments of control {money} ? our consent is what binds us to tyranny. write up a affidavit of truth, withdraw all powers of attorney that were either obtained fraudulently, or without full disclosure and understanding. withdraw all given or implied consent that you allowed by either fraud or lack of full disclosure and understanding. TPTBs biggest fear is "WE THE PEOPLE" losing fear and gaining knowledge. they can stack the deck against you all they want, but if you dont play their game, it wont make a difference.


What you do not understand is the UCC is NOT a trap, it is the out. It is HOW you taek control of the "strawman" account and stop them from trading you on the international stock market. It puts a LEGAL stopt o the fraudulent activity. It is doing it legally and on the same playing field. He who walks off the field FIRST always loses. So do not walk off the field, learn HOW to play the game and win easily.

Statements such as your without the proper research are what get people into trouble. You are NOT and never WILL BE a "sovereign", what you are doing is reclaiming your Sovereignty. There is a huge difference in the language, and it is done on purpose to confuse people. Learn the language and how to speak it simply.

No problems.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 09:29 PM
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Originally posted by Dynamike
No one told me to agree with the principles that our country was built on. I learned to appreciate them after traveling to other countries and learning of how governments operated in world history. Do I agree with all of the countries laws and ideals? Absolutely not. I dont agree with many of the laws governing insurance, welfare, social security, commerce, gun control, and drug control to name a few.

I wouldnt consider myself patriotic. I am very passive and neutral with all things. I keep an open mind and consider arguments when presented no matter how absurd they are.

That being said I found your argument to lack substance. You have no definition of what you disagree with like what I listed above. You say you are not free but dont give any credence to your argument. You downright oppose law without listing any alternative measure or reason for doing so. Based on that information I perceive your belief system as this:

You are an anarchist. You oppose laws just because they place barriers on what you can do without realizing what they also protect you from. If the country were ran how you wanted it to it would be a much different place. There would be no policing. If police had no power to stop or identify people then they could not develop probable cause for arrest. Therefore the 40% of Americans who depend on government hand outs such as food and shelter will be next looking for people that have earned those things on their own. They will rob, steal, and kill to get what they want because that is the nature of humans. This would happen because the government could no longer tax its people. Without income all government positions would be lost and therefore no government to control the people.

After this occurs there would be an invasion, most likely by China. They would take control of the country and establish their own government. At first there would be extreme measures. People would die in a power struggle. But that would soon be lost as the Chinese government took control over US military bases. The Chinese people would restore order in their way- Communism. Under Communism you would see what freedom really is.

Again; are you completely free? No. There are laws that dictate how everyone should behave. If you dont appreciate that then you can try to live in another country or in the wild and find out which you prefer. Its that simple.


Completely absurd post, the "legislature" CAN NOT make laws, they make codification, ordinance, regualtion and statutes WHICH ARE NOT LAWS!!!! Look it up, we have been TOLD they are law sbut the are not, the are regulatory in nature and deal with COMMERCE ONLY!! I am not engaged in commerce so they do not apply to me, I AM NOT A STATUTORY "citizen"!!!! End of story.

The government is a corporation according to the USC and the Supreme Court.


The date is February 21, 1871 and the Forty-First Congress is in session. I refer you to the "Acts of the Forty-First Congress," Section 34, Session III, chapters 61 and 62. On this date in the history of our nation, Congress passed an Act titled: "An Act To Provide A Government for the District of Columbia." This is also known as the "Act of 1871." What does this mean? Well, it means that Congress, under no constitutional authority to do so, created a separate form of government for the District of Columbia, which is a ten mile square parcel of land.
In essence, this Act formed the corporation known as THE UNITED STATES. Note the capitalization, because it is important. This corporation, owned by foreign interests, moved right in and shoved the original "organic" version of the Constitution into a dusty corner. With the "Act of 1871," our Constitution was defaced in the sense that the title was block-capitalized and the word "for" was changed to the word "of" in the title. The original Constitution drafted by the Founding Fathers, was written in this manner:

"The Constitution for the united states of America".

The altered version reads: "THE CONSTITUTION OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA". It is the corporate constitution. It is NOT the same document you might think it is. The corporate constitution operates in an economic capacity and has been used to fool the People into thinking it is the same parchment that governs the Republic. It absolutely is not.

Capitalization — an insignificant change? Not when one is referring to the context of a legal document, it isn't. Such minor alterations have had major impacts on each subsequent generation born in this country. What the Congress did with the passage of the Act of 1871 was create an entirely new document, a constitution for the government of the District of Columbia. The kind of government THEY created was a corporation. The new, altered Constitution serves as the constitution of the corporation, and not that of America. Think about that for a moment.



Thats it.
edit on 11-11-2012 by daddio because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 09:31 PM
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reply to post by daddio
 

"I" am not being traded. while I have read a bunch on the UCC filings, accept for value and the like, I found it worth my while to just not play their game. I filed my affidavits, with drew my consent and revoked powers of attorney and I am pleased with the results. while I have not increased my financial situations, I have the peace of mind knowing that I am a FREE man. I do still have my books, and occasionally peruse through them, I may one day comprehend more of the information but for now I am a little paranoid and apparently ignorant on the whole UCC thing.





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