Sovereignty resides IN the people

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posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 05:49 PM
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Originally posted by 1PLA1
My dictionary defines sovereign in this context as self governing.

We are not self governing in reality. We elect (hire) people to govern for us. Unfortunately, the hired help have come to believe they are our rulers.



Jonathan Dayton ~ represented New Jersey at the Constitutional Convention. He believed that government should defend individual freedoms, but within the framework of an established social hierarchy. Dayton's father, Elias, was a militia officer in the French and Indian War who returned home to prosper as a merchant and colonial official. Dayton was clearly influenced by his family's position in the community and his father's ideas about government. Both men, like most Americans of their day, believed that the average citizen should defer to the views of his "betters". www.history.army.mil...


Of course New Jersey's butchers, bakers and candlestick makers didn't hire Dayton to represent them, he was chosen by his rich landowning cronies. Because he was "a better", dontchaknow.

They've always had the belief that they are our rulers.




posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 06:01 PM
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reply to post by daddio
 

That all makes sense, but I don't understand why anyone would need a fully automatic machine gun? That's the only part I don't get. There are a lot of very dumb and very crazy people in the states and they shouldn't have access to fully automatic weapons.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 06:13 PM
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Originally posted by NewAgeMan
reply to post by daddio
 

That all makes sense, but I don't understand why anyone would need a fully automatic machine gun? That's the only part I don't get. There are a lot of very dumb and very crazy people in the states and they shouldn't have access to fully automatic weapons.


It could be just a few short years before you understand why anyone would need a fully automatic machine gun.

Now, most gun owners do not own fully automatic machine guns, its very atypical.

Regarding your 'lot of dumb and very crazy people in the states' comment... maybe we should restrict their access to voting boothes.... see what I did there?



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 07:31 PM
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reply to post by phroziac
 


Elaborate? Anybody, not necessarily this particular guy.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 07:43 PM
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Because, as I've seen others point out in other threads, the right to bear arms is specifically to protect yourself from a tyrannical govt, which will be using the military armed with those types of weapons, and worse.

edit to add: and if the military won't do it, we know they have mercenaries on the payroll who will...and take care of those military dissenters.
edit on 9-11-2012 by curiouscanadian777 because: (no reason given)


oops, I think you meant elaborate on a different post...sorry bout that.
edit on 9-11-2012 by curiouscanadian777 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 07:52 PM
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Originally posted by Samtzurr
reply to post by phroziac
 


Elaborate? Anybody, not necessarily this particular guy.

Not sure what you meant, brother. But social security numbers and birth certificate numbers supposedly can be searched for as mutual fumd numbers on some banks website...what, wells fargo? So you look it up and ots reap. Just by coincidence, not because theyre trading you.....

And why does it matter if im john doe or John Doe or JOHN DOE or JoHn DoE?
edit on 9-11-2012 by phroziac because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 07:59 PM
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Originally posted by Samtzurr
reply to post by phroziac
 


Elaborate? Anybody, not necessarily this particular guy.



An obscure little law passed quietly in the 1940's known as the Buck Act is the one major piece in the puzzle of understanding how the Federal Government has seemingly usurped most of the State's jurisdiction.

The “BUCK ACT,” created one huge federal state by the authority of Article I, Section 8, clause 17, incorporating the states as “federal areas” and renaming them, for example: New Mexico identifies the sovereign state and the STATE OF NEVADA, identifies the “federal area.” Title 4, chapter 4 of the United States Code, defines a “Federal Area” as:

Title 4, United States Code, §110(e):

The term "Federal area" means any lands or premises held or acquired by or for the use of the United States or any department, establishment, or agency, of the United States; and any Federal area, or any part thereof, which is located within the exterior boundaries of any State, shall be deemed to be a Federal area located within such State.

A "Federal area" is any area designated by any agency, department, or establishment of the federal government. This includes the Social Security areas designated by the Social Security Administration, any public housing area that has federal funding, a home that has a federal bank loan, a road that has federal funding, and almost everything that the federal government touches though any type of aid. Springfield v. Kenny, (1951 App.) 104 NE2d. 65.

thelastoutpost.com...

Hope that helps.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 08:00 PM
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I like this... I've been researching sovereignty for months and it seems it is there for the taking, we just don't. The name is key here. We think we are our name and forget its just a label. As soon as we admit to being the name in the system we are admitting to being property of the government, as the government owns the name/corporation, or is rather trustee of the corperation untill it's rightful owner claims it.

Here's one act that made them legally able to own us.
www.legislation.gov.uk...

When registered at berth, our parents registered a vessel with no sole on board. The sole was considered lost at sea and the vessel kept in trust should the soul return and claim its vessel.

Laws and acts are different, acts are only enforceable under "concent of the governed"
The moment we admit to being the name we give up our sovereignty as the name is in a trust owned by government. You have just created joindus, and now there is a conflict.
edit on 9-11-2012 by Wifibrains because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 08:38 PM
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reply to post by MystikMushroom
 


Are you aware of how much the rich even pay on taxes? How do you prove it? Secondly, why do celebrities spend juvenile time in jail compared to us if we had been convicted of the same crime? *couh* Paris Hilton coc aine *cough*
edit on 9-11-2012 by VeritasAequitas because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 08:44 PM
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reply to post by phroziac
 


Because that is not proper english; why bother beating it into your head for 12 years if it doesn't even matter in the 'grown up world'? I seriously think that people are brainwashed; and this scenario augments that belief. If the Government, Established Mainstream Story theory ever gets contradicted; people take the rebuttal of the 'Mainstream' opposed to hearing both sides. Most of you should also know that there are things detrimental to TTPB, and will not be found on simple Google searches.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 09:39 PM
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the whole ucc filing thing is a trap. if someone wants to free themselves, why would they try and gain one of the instruments of control {money} ? our consent is what binds us to tyranny. write up a affidavit of truth, withdraw all powers of attorney that were either obtained fraudulently, or without full disclosure and understanding. withdraw all given or implied consent that you allowed by either fraud or lack of full disclosure and understanding. TPTBs biggest fear is "WE THE PEOPLE" losing fear and gaining knowledge. they can stack the deck against you all they want, but if you dont play their game, it wont make a difference.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 11:53 PM
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reply to post by daddio
 


As much as I agree with you, the way the states are going you could hang for posting such patriotic material online. Be careful, friend soon the watch lists will become kill lists for them drones in your airspace. ATS isn't necessarily as anonymous as you think. IP addresses, Email accounts, it can all be traced. Wicked world we live in ain't it?



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 11:58 PM
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UCC isn't a trap,it's what those who have authority over you use to trap you!.

Uniform Commercial Code has been used to subliminate ppl 4 ever.

Uh oh,slppn in2 txt mode.

Study,don't be afraid to be free.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 12:05 AM
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Capitus Diminutio.
Capitus Diminutio Maxima.
Capitus Diminutio Media.
Capitus Diminutio Minima.
These are various examples of the meanings of your name.
The arrogant asses piss in your face every day.
Oh god,I'm back on that law # again......
No.................................................................................................................................................... .........
edit on 10-11-2012 by MyHappyDogShiner because: I might add



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 12:05 AM
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reply to post by daddio
 


I love threads like this but they also make me sad.
At this point the people of this once great country are so lost they will elect anyone. Look at the choices in the last election. We are truly lost as a people and up is down. We should not even call this america anymore.



Apamerica--------Apathy+america. I did not make the "A" upper case for a reason.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 12:15 AM
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reply to post by SubTruth
 

I have always known I was not really free,pretty much since I was like,8 years old,I really don't know how.

But,some advice for you young uns,don't learn from experience,listen to the experienced,listen,learn.

THINK!,a lot of thought was put into building your invisible cage.

The system is set up in such a way,that by the time you learn what I know,you are so dis-honorable in their system to ever make a difference.

Get it right the first time,listen to those crazy old #ers.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 12:20 AM
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Originally posted by Hefficide

It is my custom to enter threads on this topic and post a reminder... The FBI classifies "sovereign citizens" as domestic terrorists.

My research has yet to show me a single American citizen who has accomplished much of anything positive by following these ideas. Many swear they've been let out of traffic stops or even beaten a ticket using these tactics. But, beyond that....

Quite a high risk to take to avoid a speeding fine IMO.

~Heff


To Wit: We are NOT Statutory citizens, 14th Amendment citizens, U.S. citizens and so on. As long as you give no name, there is no consent. And yes, there have been many, many cases of people who beat the government down on a daily basis. Commercial liens after a formal complaint is filed. There is a process to it and it is a bit of paperwork but it does work.

For taxes: www.famguardian.org...

the 4852 inplace of the W-2: www.losthorizons.com...

For a lesson in the Sovereignty movement: sedm.org...

And for the forum moderator to read....court cases which rebut the traffic BS....freedom-school.com...

And finally a form that has been used many times and is successful...freedom-school.com...

We are sovereign, we ARE NOT Sovereigns. There is a difference, one is that "state" of being and the other is a noun.... person place or thing. Language is very important here. THIS is where it all goes wrong, if you do not speak correctly, then you can screw yourself.

Watch this guy, he is about the foremost authority on how it is done, he has been arrested numerous times and has gotten out and won his cases. This is not BS and YES, Man existed long antecedent to the creation of government. That which Man creates can NEVER have jurisdiction over the Man!!!!!!!! Got it????!!!
freedom-school.com...

One more site to look into...www.articlesbase.com... l

And okay, one more on top of that, well worth reading and printing out and sending to the DMV to set the record straight!!!!....freedom-school.com...



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 12:25 AM
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reply to post by SubTruth
 


Do not give up or give in. A lot of us are still fighting. It is a struggle but worth it in the end. You will make new friends and have good stories to tell, I have many!!! Just read and research, DO NOT take my word for it!!!! Make up your own mind, only you know what is the truth TO YOU!!

Okay



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 12:37 AM
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reply to post by daddio
 


From the last "freedom school" link you provided....



Is this not a clue? The person giving you the advice is, in turn, telling you it is "void where prohibited by law".

And NONE of what you sourced or cited negates my previous warning to the members of ATS. The FBI does, indeed, as shown in my first post - consider "Sovereign citizens" - the people attempting to engage in these paperwork shenanigans - as domestic terrorists. Given that we live in a nation that has passed two Patriot Acts, a Military Commissions Act, and the NDAA... the potential price of curiosity or misadventure could well be much more costly than one might first imagine.

Obviously people can choose to investigate and do whatever they wish - but it is my belief they should make those decisions well informed and aware of the potential pitfalls.

~Heff



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 04:44 AM
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1) This is a democracy. If you dont like any of the laws that have been set forth by the actions of millions of people that came before you then change it. The laws in this country are always changing because we are a relatively young nation. If you dont like the rules that are in it and dont want to change them then you can move out of the country. You cant benefit from what our government has to offer, such as security from invading people, freedom to do almost whatever you want, financial and health and education assistance, land and opportunities; then say, "I want all of this but I dont want to follow the rules that apply." Sorry, the rules are there so others dont take advantage of our system we set in place.

2) What exactly are you saying no to? To giving your name when applying for licenses? Thats fine just dont get licenses. When stopped by a police officer? If you didnt commit a crime or infraction you dont have to. But if you did then you need to in order to answer to the alleged violations in the court of law like the rest of America. If you dont like that answer then refer to #1.

3) It is your right to own automatic guns? Sure it is. I dont agree with it however. What do you need it for? Self defense? Against who? Other people with automatic guns? The government? Yeah right if every American (other than military) wanted to overthrow the government and armed themselves with guns they still would be no match. Even if they were, then what? Re-establish another government? I challenge anyone to start a government fresh from scratch and have it ran with more liberties than what we have now. Governments can be more liberal on its people the longer it is in place. New ones cant afford to be because it would just fall apart at the seams leaving a society filled with marshal law. And under those circumstances small factions of tyrannous feudal systems would rise and the people would be far worse off.

4) Get a life. Stop living in your fictitious world that you created courtesy of the free time and energy supplied by the cushions of our government. Serve our country and join the military.





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