Originally posted by lifttheveil
I wouldn't be happy, but until something is investigated properly and fairly then tagging something as hearsay gives people like that a free roam, look at Jimmy Saville, it was no secret and hearsay across many many circles, but because he was a high up powerful figure it was covered up and he got away with it while children who were abused were ignored and left to suffer and silence, imagine how hard it was for those kids seeing their abuser portrayed as a here before their very eyes on TV?

Wouldn't be happy? I'd be effing livid!

The people that knew or were complicit in the abuse should be brought to justice too, but not via the court of public opinion nor, I might add, via a politically motivated witch-hunt. The only way this can be resolved is through an evidence based inquiry by the Police, not by dragging politicians who, it might turn out, are connected either directly or indirectly to some of the alleged abusers and using "evidence" printed out from the internet.

Originally posted by lifttheveil
So Stu Mason lets get this in persective shall we? I do not condone a witchhunt, and neither does Phillip Schofield.

Indeed, let us get this into perspective. It seems some have already made their minds up about who is guilty and who isn't, based solely on an unsubstantiated list which may or may not contain names of people linked to Freemasonry. let the Police do their work, this is no place for Phillip Schofield, the Prime Minister or even Gordon the Gopher...

Originally posted by lifttheveil
He did not publicly say the names, he handed them to The PM, which is apt because they are MP's who are the alleged abusers, it's alleged the camera angle may have made the names visable although I have seen no proper evidence of that.

No, he might not have done, but it adds weight to the list which would be easy to locate by virtue of the fact it has been trotted out on TV when there is no supporting information to go with it. It is just a list of names making some very serious allegations..

Schofield isn't stupid, so he should know the PM CANNOT get involved in a criminal enquiry, so this list thing was a cheap political shot or an attempt to garner ratings. The PM can only pass it on to Police, which is what Schofield should have done. It was wholly unfair to expect the PM (or anyone) to comment on that list without having a proper investigation or the giving the people on that list a chance to defend themselves.

Whatever happened to the "proving guilt" bit of our Justice system?

Originally posted by lifttheveil
In light of what Jimmy got away with I believe Phillips heart is in the right place, and people like Jimmy who abused their positions of power should face justice for what they have done to children and vulnerable people,

I don't doubt his intentions, but his methods are no better than the lowest of tabloid journalism. He attempted to create a story out of a list of people who may or may not have anything to do with this most serious of crimes, without even giving them a chance to respond to those allegations. A proper journalist, in possession of any evidence of untoward behaviour, should at least give the accused person a chance to respond to the allegations, even if the response is "no comment", before "going to press" or in this case, going to the PM.

Originally posted by lifttheveil
and their positions of power should not protect them from it, my opinion is instead of spending al his efforts defending accused peodophiles in power and attacking people wanting them investigated he should make some efforts to ensure these people are investigated.

He is hardly "spending all his efforts" defending anyone, is he? Have they not launched a major inquiry (which will have to wait until after any criminal investigation anyway)? He hasn't defended anyone, precisely because doing so would confirm their name on the list, therefore prejudicing any future investigation! If anything, the PM did the right thing by refusing to comment whatsoever on the list!

Originally posted by lifttheveil
Of course that isn't how Politicians work though, is it?

Exactly. Politicians don't investigate crimes, the Police do.

Originally posted by lambros56
Well thank god Schofield never mentioned any names.

Unlike when the police, media and government accused Liverpool fans of causing the deaths of their fellow supporters at Hillsborough.

What has that got to do with the price of Fish in Grimsby on a Wednesday?

Originally posted by stumason

Originally posted by lambros56
Well thank god Schofield never mentioned any names.

Unlike when the police, media and government accused Liverpool fans of causing the deaths of their fellow supporters at Hillsborough.

What has that got to do with the price of Fish in Grimsby on a Wednesday?

I think he's highlighting the fact that it's OK for The Police and Government to say alleged serious offenders names without evidence on TV but it's not OK for the man on the street or in this case TV Presenter to do the same thing?

Going back to your replies on my comments, I don't know how many times I have to repeat that I am not in favour of a witch hunt but I'll say it again this last time in the hope it gets through.

I do think these names should be investigated, I don't think Phillip Schofield did anything wrong passing these names to the PM, if someone showed the balls he did when Saville was abusing kids that monster would have never gotten away with it

Now I have to say, watching that clip and reading other things about this case has left me feeling a little strange.
I don't for one minute believe that The Freemasons are all Paedophiles and that their ultimate goal is to to abuse children that are in care homes or ritually sacrifice them or any other such nonsense.
Nor do I believe that all Freemasons know about the abuse that is carried out by members of their organisation.
Much like the Police, Politicians, Care Home Staff..... they are not "All in on it"

Freemasonry has never interested me before as a conspiracy and I'm not sure it does now either to be honest.
But I do find it odd that we have a councillor & retired police inspector both saying that the Freemasons need to be investigated.... one from the stance of "just to be sure and have a look" and one because "all the names on his list are Freemasons" or have links to them.

These aren't conspiracy theorists or Anti-Mason nutters.

The Councillor himself was abused and in his search and research over the years, he has concluded that there are definite links to Masons and that there absolutely is a cover up.

Now on the second part I absolutely agree.

The first investigation was a whitewash..... as was Haute De La Garenne..... as was Dunblane.... as was Hollie Grieg

These things ARE covered up.

D notices and other such means...

A nod and wink

If I go down, I'll take you all with me... etc etc


People saying, like Cameron did, that people need to go to the police and come forward and tell your story.... this just makes my jaw drop.

WTF??

This is what these people, children and whistleblowers did.... time and time again.

Evidence was destroyed, documents altered, people told to shut up and stop complaining.

Think of Hillsborough, think of the altered statements against the Miners in the Miners strike fiasco...


There is a cover up at the top.

A MASSIVE one.

Top people are being protected.... top names are covering for one another.

I don't know whether it is linked to Masons or any other organisation or society, I would like to think that all avenues will be covered and that in a proper, unbiased and serious investigation, these things will be looked into and either cleared or implicated.

I wont hold my breath for a proper investigation though

Nothing will be done as the majority of top police officers are probably involved.

This is a shocking moment for the elites and alas it appears that child abuse is prevelant in these circles. Jimmy Savile was not just a fixer for children's dreams, he was a fixer for these vile individuals who have commited such action.

I don't think anyone is claiming all freemasons are paedophiles, just that the majority of the alledged appear to be freemasons.

People claim what Schofield did was naive and inappropriate. I'm sorry, but allowing the abuse to happen and turning a blind eye to such incidents is far more grossly inappropriate. If this is the kind of thing people need to do in order to raise awareness, then more power to them.

I find it amazing that there appears to be more vitriol for Phillip Schofield than the actual abusers. And hiding behind claims of Witch Hunt is a poor excuse for doing nothing.

Okay Cameron cannot investigate this directly, but he should make sure that the list is handed over to the police and demand to be kept informed of developments. Cameron's response yesterday implies he knows much more that is being let on and shame on everyone who knew about any of this and has decided not to do anything.

Oh and by the way, the names on the list were not picked up by the camera, so claims that this action will jeopordise any future trial should now be stopped.

Originally posted by lifttheveil

Always out in defense - Even regarding THIS subject.

Tut - tut.

I've actually just discovered my friend - who was abused as a child, was abused by his uncle who had strong ties to Local Freemasons..

Coincidence? I think not.

I agree, every thread with Mason in the title always attracts the usual Mason defenders who are themselves Freemasons, it's really quite transparant now and the Command of Masonry is to keep the secrets of the craft or suffer having yourself mutilated so why anyone would believe anything said by their cult members here really is beyond me when their whole cult instructs them to lie and decieve about what Masonry is about

I wonder why that is? Hmm. Let's see, some faceless internet dweller decided to make up lies about the group you belong to, offers no proof or evidence to back it up, and then gets multiple other faceless internet dwellers to jump on the bandwagon.

Now why on earth would anyone question that?

Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by lifttheveil

Always out in defense - Even regarding THIS subject.

Tut - tut.

I've actually just discovered my friend - who was abused as a child, was abused by his uncle who had strong ties to Local Freemasons..

Coincidence? I think not.

I agree, every thread with Mason in the title always attracts the usual Mason defenders who are themselves Freemasons, it's really quite transparant now and the Command of Masonry is to keep the secrets of the craft or suffer having yourself mutilated so why anyone would believe anything said by their cult members here really is beyond me when their whole cult instructs them to lie and decieve about what Masonry is about

I wonder why that is? Hmm. Let's see, some faceless internet dweller decided to make up lies about the group you belong to, offers no proof or evidence to back it up, and then gets multiple other faceless internet dwellers to jump on the bandwagon.

Now why on earth would anyone question that?

Are you out of your mind?

Lets get the facts straight, YOU are a faceless internet dweller, YOU!

The people making these allegations are a former deputy Chief Constable and a Councillor who is also an abuse victim. Very real people, and a very serious real issue. So shouting at the person who uploaded it, or at me for posting it here, or at people for replying to it only highlights how you jump to defend your secret cult at any opprtunity for whatever reason regardless of the facts involved whenever a Masonic thread is started.

Belonging to an organization that requires it's members to help cover for one another and lie seems to me to be something that would be attractive to anyone involved in illegal activities... I've only known one Mason that was a pedophile... He was abusing his wife's granddaughter who was living under their roof... He was able to shift the blame to her pre teen son even though his wife knew the truth..... He had been able to get a 100% service connected disability rating with help from fellow lodge members at the local DAV and she liked the money.. If he'd been convicted he would have lost his benefits and she would have lost her free ride...When his wife finally got her fill of his schemes and was going to leave him and he was required to pay child support after going before a judge and playing up being a poor widow's son he put the barrel of a .357 magnum in his mouth and made a huge mess by decorating the front yard with his brains... He told me on numerous occasions that if I hung out with him he would show me how to get anything I wanted for nothing like he had ...