Nearly everyone on UK paedophile ring list is a Freemason says abuse victim

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posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by Afterthought
It sure appears from your above words that you can believe that there was a sicko in a Masonic Lodge in 1885, but you're unable to comprehend how others could've joined since.
I don't believe it's I who has flawed logic.


nonsense! I believe there have been many men who joined the fraternity since 1885. Most of the men from back in that time have since passed away. In fact, I think the oldest member of my lodge was born in 1921.
(Just so you know, 2012-1885=127. Most folks don't live that long.)

Please enjoy this knowledge! There is no charge at all! have a super day!
edit on 29-11-2012 by network dude because: had to add a ")". Oh, and Augustusmasonicus has stale beer. (and it's flat)




posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 09:55 AM
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WHAT IS DISTURBING! Is that the Order of Heredom (As In Heredity) has now become full-fledge open race(s) affiliation...

What happens when all races summon their crafts to battle the white folk heredom...
Do we just give them their daughters for sex?!? Humph!

Tis I... Pinocchio!
Of Acacia Wood Was I Fashioned! With Sh!ttim For My Thoughts!
Adorned In Fine Gold! BUT! But I Am Not The Ark Of The Covenant! Humph!

AND! And I Shall Not Stand For This Tragedy!

Oh... And STOP THE PEDOPHILING!



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 10:00 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


You're hedging now.
You know darn well that I wasn't meaning that men haven't joined Maonic lodges since 1885. Your sarcasm and childish attitude prove that Masonic teachings can't bring maturity and enlightenment to everyone.

Why do you feel so threatened by my belief that there may be bad people hidiing in Masonic Lodges?
Either you're quite dense or your fear of this realization is making you very nervous. Your use of humor and sarcasm demonstrates that you're fearful of something. Have you done something wrong and you're feeling guilty? Do you think that maybe one of your brothers has done something and now you're at odds with yourself about what you should do? Are you concerned that your membership dues and donations aren't being used entirely for what you were told they would be used for?
Something is making you nervous. What is it?

Anyways, if you honestly believe that there isn't ONE sicko in a Masonic Lodge somewhere on this Earth, I have a tropical island in the Sahara Desert I'd like to sell you.
edit on 29-11-2012 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 10:38 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


Before I run out to get some stuff done, I'd just like to leave you with a few things to think about.
Your blind faith is the perfect example of what I'm trying to convey to you and other Masons.
Your flawed perception and unwavering trust is exactly why sickos would hide in Masonic lodges. They know that there are members just like you who will not question their character and protect them at all costs. Remember, there are a whole lot of people out there who have done/are doing bad things and haven't gotten caught yet. I'm sure you know people who have driven drunk several times, but haven't caused an accident or been pulled over, right? Same reasoning applies here.

Please, do everyone a favor and practice using your inner voice and common sense to see through the facades people put up every day. There are tricksters all around us and they depend on people like you.

I've mentioned this before, but I feel it bears repeating.
In The Good Guy by Dean Koontz, the assassin states that people are called sheople, but they're nothing like sheep because sheep are always on the look out for predators.



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 01:33 PM
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reply to post by Afterthought
 


Aw, don't go getting all mad now.


Yes, I do use sarcasm and humor in some of my posts. have I done something that I shouldn't have done at some point in my life. Well, not as far as you know, but then again maybe.


Again, for the &*%$th time, nobody in masonry believes that all masons are perfect. We all accept that as with any group, some bad apples may exist. I will honestly say that the level of quality character is highest when comparing masonry to any other group I have been a part of. Plain and simple, the men I know who are masons are just good men. Maybe I am just lucky and I only meet the good ones, or maybe I have really low standards. (come to think of it, I think Augustusmasonicus is a great guy, so there might be something to that.)

So in closing, not all masons are saints, not all sinners are bad, and not all beer is up north.
have a nice day.

edit on 29-11-2012 by network dude because: Augustusmasonicus is prejudice against sweet tea. The south will rise again.



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 01:46 PM
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Originally posted by Afterthought
You know darn well that I wasn't meaning that men haven't joined Maonic lodges since 1885.
I think what he was getting at is that it would be far more impactful to cite a contemporary example of A: someone who is undeniably a Mason; and B: convicted in a court of law of the crimes he has been accused of; rather than a 100+ year old example where the accused is in no condition to answer his accusers.


Your sarcasm and childish attitude prove that Masonic teachings can't bring maturity and enlightenment to everyone.
We never claimed it could. Again, it's just teachings. Doesn't mean the student is actually going to learn anything unless they apply themselves to the lessons.


Why do you feel so threatened by my belief that there may be bad people hidiing in Masonic Lodges?
Really, it comes down to a matter of scope:

If you say "so and so is a bad man, and when he goes home at night, he does bad things", that is possible. And again, nobody here is saying that every single Mason is a saint.

But then you escalate that one step further. You seem to think that a collection of bad men could somehow use the fraternity to cloak their misdeeds. And I fail to see how. The illegal activities wouldn't be taking place IN the lodge, or the good members would catch them at it and send them to prison. If the illegal activities are taking place somewhere else, then what does their membership have to do with the acts they've committed on their own?



posted on Nov, 29 2012 @ 06:10 PM
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reply to post by JoshNorton
 


To remain on topic, that was the only example I could locate that stated a paedophile was also a Mason.
If you'd listened to the radio show I linked to, you'd know that there will be future examples.

I can't control the media. Who's to say that there haven't been more Masons arrested for such crimes? The news isn't going to say a man from such and such lodge was arrested today for molesting a child. They usually just mention what he did for a living or where he worked. The clubs they belonged to are usually not mentioned unless they had to do specifically with children such as 4H or coaching a local sports team. So, how would we be any the wiser?

Just food for thought, there once was a time when teacher/student relations weren't in the news either, but now it's everywhere you look. Times are a changing and many people out there are going to be questioning how some of these creatures were able to slip past Masons and were able to fit in so well with the group.
The only thing I hope is that when one is found and proven guilty, will you abide by the oaths you all took and disembowel him or whatever his level's punishment entailed? If this happened, I swear I'll never question a Masonic lodge's integrity ever again. This would surely prove to me that they are men of their word. Disemboweling a criminal who was hiding amongst you good men would surely keep the riff raff from thinking about using you all as shields ever again.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 05:29 AM
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reply to post by Afterthought
 

Yes, and my hope is that when the men in question are found NOT to be masons that you come back and apologize. But we all know that will not happen.

Don't look for us to be killing anyone. That is not what we do. Due process and justice should fix things. If it fails, then the public should make it's voice heard.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 07:40 AM
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reply to post by network dude
 


I love how sure you are of those around you. I wish I could be so trustworthy of people, but too many have disappointed me.

You want an apology from me? For what?
If I were part of a group that is rumored to have sickos hiding within, I'd step aside for the investigators and help in any way I could.

You seriously have no idea how many freaks are out there. I'm a very tiny woman (proportionally the size of a 10 year old, but with the mature features women have) and I can't tell you how many times I've met a man who is smiling ear to ear while telling me "Damn! You're the size of a child, but YOU'RE legal." Makes my skin crawl. These guys always appear so normal until they get relaxed and can't help themselves as they blurt out their true desires. I can only believe that you've lived a very sheltered life. They're everywhere. They work at your grocery store. They live in your neighborhood. They are in your police force. They are in our government. They are in Masonic lodges.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 08:40 AM
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Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by network dude
 


I love how sure you are of those around you. I wish I could be so trustworthy of people, but too many have disappointed me.


Might that be colouring your take just a bit?


Originally posted by Afterthought
You want an apology from me? For what?
If I were part of a group that is rumored to have sickos hiding within, I'd step aside for the investigators and help in any way I could
.

I live and conduct myself by fact, not rumour and/or innuendo. To live otherwise is a fool's paradise


Originally posted by Afterthought
You seriously have no idea how many freaks are out there. I'm a very tiny woman (proportionally the size of a 10 year old, but with the mature features women have) and I can't tell you how many times I've met a man who is smiling ear to ear while telling me "Damn! You're the size of a child, but YOU'RE legal." Makes my skin crawl. These guys always appear so normal until they get relaxed and can't help themselves as they blurt out their true desires. I can only believe that you've lived a very sheltered life. They're everywhere. They work at your grocery store. They live in your neighborhood. They are in your police force. They are in our government. They are in Masonic lodges.


And here, my earlier response comes to the fore. Your experience(s) with certain men appear to have made you assume that such individuals are more common than they actually are. By your screed, shall we now avoid all grocery store workers, police officers, government bureaucrats (not that that's an entirely bad idea
) et al because you might have run into an individual who gave you the creeps? You make a huge leap in logic to tar-and-feather entire groups at the drop of an implication.

You'll excuse me if I think it's a rather bad idea to recommend living life at the pleasure of an Internet star chamber.

Fitz

p.s. Just as a post-script, I don't believe for a moment that you are what you claim to be (a petite, buxom woman); there just seem to me to be too many unlikelies in your posts that suggest otherwise. However, for the sake of discussion in the thread, I'll live with that pretension.



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 08:48 AM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


NO! You're not getting it.
I never stated that I think ALL grocery workers or whomever ARE committing crimes against children.
All I'm trying to say is that "they" CAN BE anywhere. Your lodges are not immune to these types of people. Jezuz Criminey! FINE! Everyone who becomes a Mason has obviously been sent to lodges because they have been touched by the Creator himself and are way above doing any harm to anyone. THERE! Is everyone happy? I almost want to donate all my gold so you higher than thou immortal gods can melt it down and use it to paint your godly temples with it. All Hail the sinless lodges and the men who can walk on water in their own minds.

(Some people are in for a rude awakening and it's not me.)
edit on 30-11-2012 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 09:49 AM
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Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by JoshNorton
 


To remain on topic, that was the only example I could locate that stated a paedophile was also a Mason.
If you'd listened to the radio show I linked to, you'd know that there will be future examples.


Well, at this point

a) All there is is an accusation of an organised paedophile ring
b) All there is is an accusation that if paedophile ring exists, that anyone let alone nearly everyone is a Freemason
c) Nobody has (to my knowledge) been charged with anything
d) Until a trial takes place, innocent until proved guilty is still the rule of law in the UK

This harks back to my previous comment about star chambers and this thread provides an object lesson in why mobs are not known for creating just law
.

Originally posted by Afterthought
I can't control the media. Who's to say that there haven't been more Masons arrested for such crimes? The news isn't going to say a man from such and such lodge was arrested today for molesting a child. They usually just mention what he did for a living or where he worked. The clubs they belonged to are usually not mentioned unless they had to do specifically with children such as 4H or coaching a local sports team. So, how would we be any the wiser?


As a media professional, there's an axiom "If it bleeds, it leads". That is to say, the more sensational a story (no matter how relatively news-worthy it may or may not be), the closer to the beginning of a newscast/closer to the front page it is. Given the number of news outlets and the scope of competition for eyeballs these days, do you honestly think if there were more Masons being arrested for any crimes let alone "such crimes" that there wouldn't be a news media feeding frenzy? I mean, isn't that what made Anders Breivik especially notable for his actions? I mean, when his name is mentioned who doesn't think of the photo of him in his tux and Masonic apron?

The reason the media doesn't say "a man from such and such lodge was arrested today for molesting a child" is quite simply that it's meaningless. It's as relevant to the story as his street address.


Originally posted by Afterthought
Just food for thought, there once was a time when teacher/student relations weren't in the news either, but now it's everywhere you look.


Multiple reports of the same story don't suddenly make the number of instances increase. And as I said previously, there are more news media outlets with more news cycles to fill with something....anything and so what previously on balance wouldn't have been considered newsworthy except on a really slow news day is now courtesy of the hyena-like pursuit by 'gotta have my fix of news' junkies considered newsworthy. This isn't to say that the previous dynamic was perfect but rather that we've over-shot where a reasonable balance lies and now we live in a conviction-by-reportage world. Doesn't matter if the accused was tried and convicted; he/she was mentioned ergo he/she must've done something

TMZ mobthink mentality writ large


Originally posted by Afterthought
Times are a changing and many people out there are going to be questioning how some of these creatures were able to slip past Masons and were able to fit in so well with the group.


If they exist at all, they "fit in so well with the group" because they "fit in so well" with every group; they pass very well as normal in society and it's only in hindsight that their detractors typically come out and say 'I knew something wasn't right about so-and-so'.

Such people don't just go from their little basement apartments to a group meeting and back again, never interacting with anyone else; they navigate society at large avoiding being noticed by all and sundry. Shall we pillory society at large for housing such individuals?



Originally posted by Afterthought
The only thing I hope is that when one is found and proven guilty, will you abide by the oaths you all took and disembowel him or whatever his level's punishment entailed?


If tried and found guilty, I (like every Mason on this board) would expect (nay, demand) him to be sentenced to the fullest extent of the law; no less. What you propose has nothing whatever to do with Masonry


Originally posted by Afterthought
If this happened, I swear I'll never question a Masonic lodge's integrity ever again. This would surely prove to me that they are men of their word. Disemboweling a criminal who was hiding amongst you good men would surely keep the riff raff from thinking about using you all as shields ever again.


Well, if that's what it takes to earn your love, I have no problem living with your disdain. You seem to be harbouring a serious anger and I'm quite sure that Masons are just your current target.

Fitz



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 10:01 AM
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Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


NO! You're not getting it.


I get it alright. I just choose not to 'get it' in the hysterical way you'd like.


Originally posted by Afterthought
All Hail the sinless lodges and the men who can walk on water in their own minds.

(Some people are in for a rude awakening and it's not me.)


Nobody least of all Freemasons believe themselves free of sin. However, excuse me if I don't choose to follow your tub-thumping parade. Such parades usually turn into goose-stepping

Fitz



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 10:12 AM
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reply to post by Fitzgibbon
 


You and your brothers, except for the one who understands how innocence by association can work in this situation, are extremely egotistical. All of you put your pants on the same way everyone else does, yet you are so sure that just because someone walks through the threshold of a Masonic lodge, they should be considered saintly. I think this is a huge mistake for anyone to make, Mason or not. People should always be wary of those around them. People should always have their guard up around someone until they can honestly say that this person has proven that they are worthy of my trust and love as (most) blood brothers would be.

Most Masonic Lodges hold meetings twice per month, right? On average.
I can't say that I've ever hung out with anyone a handful of times per month and said I trusted them implicitly. Why can you be so sure about these members? Because they are able to make it to the meetings each and every time? Because they are able to memorize the material and regurgitate it back like a good parrot? Because they smile and shake your hand firmly? Because they enjoy the same beer you do? Because they tell you they are happily married? Because they tell you that they've served this country or their father served this country? If we all lived in a world where we could let our guard down, hitchhiking would still be common, we could allow our children to play unsupervised until dark, and you wouldn't have to run background checks on potential dates. But, that's not the way this world is today. I have no problems considering someone a good person until they prove otherwise, but most people I wouldn't even leave them care for a dog until I've spent a whole lot of time with them -- and not just at a few monthly meetings.

Which reminds me, nobody answered my question from earlier about what happens at the lodges all the other nights of the week? If you men only meet two days out of the month, what goes on on all the other nights?

Edit to Add: One more question, can anyone get those Masonic stickers for their car's back window? Would you feel warm and fuzzy if you knew that a girl was hitchhiking and thought it was OK to accept a ride from a man just because he had Masonic symbols stuck on his windows? She should trust him completely according to your logic and reasoning. How do we know that the man picking up the hitchhiker is a Mason at all and not using your symbols to make people think he can be trusted?
This whole thing is much bigger than you boys care to consider.
edit on 30-11-2012 by Afterthought because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by Afterthought
Which reminds me, nobody answered my question from earlier about what happens at the lodges all the other nights of the week? If you men only meet two days out of the month, what goes on on all the other nights?


We rent our lodge out to:



    Person's having special events (Birthdays, Christenings, Engagement Parties, etc.)
    The local Retired Persons Club
    Two Eastern Star chapters
    The Demolay
    The Rainbow Girls
    The Firemen's Benevolent Society
    The Little League
    The township Police Benevolent Society
    Several non-profit groups
    Other Lodge functions



There are very few days when the lodge is not being used for one function or another.



edit on 30-11-2012 by AugustusMasonicus because: networkdude has no beer



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 01:45 PM
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reply to post by Afterthought
 

I for one have always been skeptical of baseless accusations, but I for one won't say that everyone who walks through our doors is a good person. That's obviously not true, but I believe in the "innocent until proven guilty" and that we shouldn't conduct witch-hunts.


I can't say that I've ever hung out with anyone a handful of times per month and said I trusted them implicitly.

Some of my Brothers I hang out with more than just at the meetings.


...we could allow our children to play unsupervised until dark...

I did that in my childhood and I'm not that old...at all.


Which reminds me, nobody answered my question from earlier about what happens at the lodges all the other nights of the week? If you men only meet two days out of the month, what goes on on all the other nights?

At my building, there are 4 Lodges that meet, 2 Eastern Star Chapters, the York Rite bodies meet (and hold their weekend degree festivals twice a year), the Daughters of the Nile meet, and then throughout the year the Job's Daughter hold their officer installations there. The Temple Board meet once a month. The bottom floor of the building we rent out that space to anyone (right now we have 4 of 5 spaces filled). Almost every day of the week there is someone meeting for one reason or the other. Even when there isn't a scheduled meeting some bodies (like the Commandery) meet to practice different ceremonies.

EDIT: We also have had several non-Masonic groups such as college fraternities use our building.


One more question, can anyone get those Masonic stickers for their car's back window?

You can get them online.
edit on 30-11-2012 by KSigMason because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 30 2012 @ 03:52 PM
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Originally posted by Afterthought
reply to post by network dude
 


I love how sure you are of those around you. I wish I could be so trustworthy of people, but too many have disappointed me.


I am sorry about that. I trust until I am given not to trust. I don't expect anyone who is not a mason to understand the inherent trust we share with each other. Luckily, we don't have to worry about what others think about us.


You want an apology from me? For what?

If it's found that the men in question are not masons, yet you have been basing all your posts as if they were, perhaps you might offer a brief "I am sorry for jumping to conclusions", but as I said, that most likely will not happen.


If I were part of a group that is rumored to have sickos hiding within, I'd step aside for the investigators and help in any way I could.

As would I. What should I do from my kitchen in Dunn, NC?


You seriously have no idea how many freaks are out there. I'm a very tiny woman (proportionally the size of a 10 year old, but with the mature features women have) and I can't tell you how many times I've met a man who is smiling ear to ear while telling me "Damn! You're the size of a child, but YOU'RE legal." Makes my skin crawl. These guys always appear so normal until they get relaxed and can't help themselves as they blurt out their true desires. I can only believe that you've lived a very sheltered life. They're everywhere. They work at your grocery store. They live in your neighborhood. They are in your police force. They are in our government. They are in Masonic lodges.

I am an average 44 year old slightly (perhaps a bit more than slightly) overweight guy, so I don't get hit on like you. I am sure there are sick folks out there. Sex is one of the biggest sellers out there. I am not sure what else I can say about that. I can honestly say that I have seen some young girls and thought they were very beautiful. Does that make me a sicko? I don't know, but I would never hurt a child in any way. And I think child molesters should get instant death penalty as that is the worst crime imaginable to me.



posted on Dec, 1 2012 @ 07:49 AM
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Originally posted by network dude
What should I do from my kitchen in Dunn, NC?


As Prince did for Charlie Murphy...

Cook me some pancakes.



posted on Dec, 1 2012 @ 08:36 AM
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Originally posted by AugustusMasonicus

Originally posted by network dude
What should I do from my kitchen in Dunn, NC?


As Prince did for Charlie Murphy...

Cook me some pancakes.


That was only because he lost. Blouses won.

Never assume Prince is not a baller.



posted on Dec, 4 2012 @ 12:59 AM
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Originally posted by network dude

Originally posted by HIWATT

Even if you're the scum of the earth, if you are in the right club and you know the right people, the skids will get greased... and then soon enough you're free to go back to sodomizing children, or whatever else suits your fancy that day

They should all hang by the neck until dead, but not before being tarred, feathered, and set on fire




Ah yes, and what would an ATS masonic thread be without the Death Threat.

Kill em all, and let God sort em out!
yip god does say in his book not to go into the fire or cast spells
or be in the company of witches eh






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