How Many Jews Know Your Sabbath Has Been Screwed With

I just found this extensive article, on the Dead Sea Scroll's Book of Jubilees. Maybe this can shed some "light" in the issue.

www.abu.nb.ca...

2.4. Solar Calendar

The proper method of marking the passage of time is the “movements” of the sun (solar calendar) (6:23-31); in fact this was one the purposes for which the sun was created (2:9). This means that the year is to be 364 days long, consisting of four quarters of 13 weeks (13 x 7 = 91 days; 4 x 91 = 364 days) (see 6:32-38). This calendar includes four “days of remembrance” after the solstices and the equinoxes (6:23-29). This solar calendar is equally divisible by seven into fifty-two weeks, which means that the Sabbaths and the festival days will always fall on the same day of the month for every year.

These four units of thirteen weeks are each also divided into three non-lunar months of thirty days each (360 days); to these twelve months are added the "days of remembrance" before the the first, fourth, seventh and tenth months (360 + 4 = 364 days) (6:23-29). Since God created the sun on the fourth day, the year must always begin on a Wednesday (Gen 1:14-19). The festivals always fall on the same day of the week and same day of the month each year, which is never on the Sabbath. (As already indicated, there is a probable reference to 1 En. 72-82 in Jub. 4:17.) The larger units of marking the passing of time are the “week” (period of seven years) and the jubilee (7 x 7 = 49 years).

The fiftieth year is the biblical year of jubilee. Throughout the Book of Jubilees, the author attempts to date all significant events by this method dating by weeks (seven year periods) and jubilees (forty-nine year periods). What is rejected is the lunar calendar consisting of 354 days, with six months having twenty-eight days and six months having twenty-nine days.

Originally posted by magickmaster

Originally posted by Beavers
The same law also tells you not to work every 7th year.

No No No, it says forgive the interest and debts you have, in the 7th year. If you do not work, you do not get paid. Maybe someone will forgive your debts in the 7th year. It's called Jubilee, and if our leaders were actually Jewish, they would have forgiven our debts about 20 years ago. 1913 + 70 = 1983. But we are still in debt!

So they are fake Jews, otherwise called, "Masons".

I'm pretty it says that you're not supposed to work (the land) every 7th year and that anything that grows that year should be left for the beasts too.

reply to post by Beavers


You are correct.

"Six years thou shalt sow thy field, and six years thou shalt prune thy vineyard, and gather in the fruit thereof; But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest unto the land...That which groweth of its own accord of thy harvest thou shalt not reap, neither gather the grapes of thy vine undressed: for it is a year of rest unto the land... And thou shalt number seven sabbaths of years unto thee, seven times seven years; and the space of the seven sabbaths of years shall be unto thee forty and nine years. Then shalt thou cause the trumpet of the jubile to sound ... And ye shall hallow the fiftieth year, and proclaim liberty throughout all the land... A jubile shall that fiftieth year be unto you: ye shall not sow, neither reap that which groweth of itself in it, nor gather the grapes in it of thy vine undressed. For it is the jubile; it shall be holy unto you: ye shall eat the increase thereof out of the field." (from Leviticus, Chapter 25: 3-12 - English language translation based upon the KJV).
www.creation-answers.com...

Originally posted by magickmaster
If you have studied religion for any decent length of time, you would know, the Jews and the Christians fight over one thing and one thing only. The proper day of worship.

Jews, worshiping, El, or Saturn, worship on Saturdays. The Christians, worshiping the Sun of God, worship on Sundays. Simple as that.

And the all knowing Jews and Christians, smoke pot on saturdays and sundays.

edit on 9-11-2012 by magickmaster because: (no reason given)

Hi magicmaster/

Christians worship the Lord Jesus Christ on Sundays(KIRIAKI) because it was on this day that the Resurrection happened!
It is not the SUN of God, but The Son of God! (just correcting your mistake)
There are many differences in what each Faith fight for then days of Worship...believe me!\

ICXC NIKA

If you can make any statement about the Jewish Sages, one thing is certain: Precision. The Jewish Sages, in all of their writings, are quite specific and precise.

Lunar calendars are actually luni-solar calendars, which incorporates both the moon phase and the time of the solar year. The Hebrew, Buddhist, Tibetan, traditional Chinese, Japanese calendars were all luni-solar calendars - Even the Germanic calendar during the pre-Christian era was luni-solar. The Chinese and Hebrew luni-calendar aligned more closely with the tropical seasons, whereas the Buddhist calendar aligned more closely with the full moon as it is related to its position among the constellations.

It's not just the lunar versus solar calendar debate, but this debate coincides with the Jewish holidays versus the Christian holidays. The Jewish holidays are listed and explained quite clearly in the Hebrew Bible, but the Christian holidays of Christmas and Easter all are of pagan origin, now with Christian themes. Even Halloween is of pagan origin.

If you live in the Western world, as I do, you begin to realize that the holidays and festivals described in the Hebrew Bible are no longer practiced by Christians, but only by our Jewish brethren.

The Jewish tradition is not just the monthly calendar, but even a breakdown of daily hours. Specifically, the daily calendar is broken down into several different segments which determine when are the proper times to pray. When does midnight prayer (Tikkun Chatzot) begin? The Jewish daily calendar will actually have the exact daily times for each prayer session.

To find the daily times for various sessions, some Jews will use an online resource based on their current location - Just type in your city here, as an example:

www.myzmanim.com...

Just a question...
If Jesus died friday afternoon just before sabbath, and he said he would be in the belly of the earth three days and three night, that would not add up to sunday morning.

firday afternoon (1 day) friday night (1 night) sat day(2 day) sat night (2 night) Sunday (3 day) sun night (3 night)
He would have to rise on Monday to not be a liar.

Maybe you guys have that sunday thing wrong?

Second. If the Gregorian calendar didn't exist, it would have been on the Hebrew calendar. The chances of that day matching up with the gregorian sunday are pretty slim.

Originally posted by winterkill
Just a question...
If Jesus died friday afternoon just before sabbath, and he said he would be in the belly of the earth three days and three night, that would not add up to sunday morning.

No, he clearly was resurrected on Sunday, as the text shows that the women went to the tomb the morning after the Shabbat (which ended at sundown on Saturday.)

Some believe that he actually died on Thursday, not Friday, though that's a bit of a stretch, because the Romans were in a hurry to kill the prisoners, and Nicodemus was in a hurry to bury Jesus, ahead of the Sabbath, which wouldn't make much sense if it was a whole day later.

So, the traditional answer simply points to the fact that Jews in the time of Jesus didn't count days and nights the same way that we do. Here's an article on the subject you might find interesting.

No, he clearly was resurrected on Sunday, as the text shows that the women went to the tomb the morning after the Shabbat (which ended at sundown on Saturday.)

There is quite a bit of dispute among scholars on this subject.

I think the Jews have their own calendar system different from the general public. What we have now is the Gregorian calendar system which is heavily influenced by the Sumerian system. The names of the days are named after Sumerian deities. Sumerian system calculate base on a sexagesimal system or base 60. So, In 1 minute, there's 60 seconds. In one hour, there's 60 minutes. In 60 minutes, there's 60x60=3,600 seconds. In 1 year (ancient calendar) = 360 days.

I believe this was derived after their Sumerian King, Ninurta, which has a royal mark or symbol of the Hexagram.

The Hexagram is composed of two opposing triangles. Each triangle has a 60 degrees angle on each vertex, thus, the base 60 system. So, it's 60, 60, 60 which is equal to 180. Two triangles in a Hexagram = 180x2 = 360. 360 is the complete number of the Hexagram, thus, 360 days is the complete number of the year.

Even though, the Sabbath falls on a Saturday, it only means that it coincides with the Sumerian 6th day, Saturday.

Jews don't name the days of the week, they only numbered them.

yom rishon = "first day"
yom sheni = "second day"
yom sh'lishi = "third day"
yom revi'i = "fourth day"
yom chamishi = "fifth day"
yom shishi = "sixth day"
shabbat kodesh = "seventh day"

The first day coincides with Sunday (7th day) and the fifth day coincides with Saturday (6th day).

The Egyptian and the Chinese week system uses a 10 day system.

Yes they know ... the following two references are from Jewish sources...

“Sabbath and New Moon (Rosh Hodesh), both periodically recurring in the course of the year. The New Moon is still, and the Sabbath originally was, dependent upon the lunar cycle”
(Universal Jewish Encylopedia, 410.)

“The Israelites . . . made the Sabbath the feasts of a living and holy God. The work of man became symbolic of the work of God, and human rest of divine rest, so that the Sabbaths became preeminently days of rest. Since, moreover, the LUNAR MONTH had 29 or 30 days, the normal lapse of time between Sabbaths was six days, although sometimes seven or eight; and six working days were accordingly assigned to the creation, which was to furnish a prototype for human life. The connection of the Sabbath with lunar phases, however, was [later] discarded by the Israelites . . . .”
(The New Schaff-Herzog Religious Encyclopedia, 135-136.)

Originally posted by CookieMonster09

No, he clearly was resurrected on Sunday, as the text shows that the women went to the tomb the morning after the Shabbat (which ended at sundown on Saturday.)

There is quite a bit of dispute among scholars on this subject.

I rather doubt that.

After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. (Matthew 28:1 NIV)

When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body. Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb and they asked each other, “Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?” (Mark 16:1-3 NIV)

On the first day of the week, very early in the morning, the women took the spices they had prepared and went to the tomb. (Luke 24:1 NIV)

Early on the first day of the week, while it was still dark, Mary Magdalene went to the tomb and saw that the stone had been removed from the entrance. (John 20:1 NIV)

That's four for four on him being resurrected by Sunday morning, so what's to dispute?

Even though, the Sabbath falls on a Saturday, it only means that it coincides with the Sumerian 6th day, Saturday.

The ordinary Sabbath starts on Friday evening, and runs until Saturday evening.

Since, moreover, the LUNAR MONTH had 29 or 30 days, the normal lapse of time between Sabbaths was six days, although sometimes seven or eight;

The Orthodox Jews today rectify this situation by adding an additional "leap" month from time to time.

I rather doubt that.... After the Sabbath, at dawn on the first day of the week, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to look at the tomb. (Matthew 28:1 NIV)

All I am saying is that there is an academic dispute among scholars. For example:

According to Andrew Gabriel Roth, the Aramaic biblical scholar, the Aramaic for this verse - Matthew 28:1 reads, "b'ramsha din b'shabata", or, "in the evening of the Shabbat".

Roth proposes the theory that Christ was crucified Thursday, the 15th of Abib and a high Shabbat:

Thursday - 3-6 pm - day 1
Thursday 6pm - Friday 6 am - night 1
Fri. 6 am - 6 pm - day 2
Fri. 6 pm - Sat. 6 am - night 2
Sat. 6 am - 6 pm - day 3
Sat. 6 pm - Sun. 6 am - night 3

He also gives an alternate theory that Christ may have died on a Wednesday.

Roth makes mention of two symbolic signs that the 3 days and 3 nights have passed: the earthquake that struck when Christ died, as well as the earthquake that struck when Mary and Mary Magdalene visited the tomb after Christ had been resurrected. Roth notes that there are several verses that make mention that Christ must be in the tomb 3 days and 3 nights, just as Jonah was in the whale for a similar period of time.

reply to post by CookieMonster09


Again, that demands that one throw out any connection of the Crucifixion to the Sabbath, and that's far more problematic than saying that just because we don't see "three days and three nights" in there, the people of the time did.

reply to post by adjensen


There's something in there about the "High Sabbath" in which the high holiday of Passover and the Friday Sabbath, somehow coincide.

I say "somehow" coincide, because the reasoning I've heard is that Passover fell of a Thursday that year, accompanied by the Friday Sabbath, making the holiday doubly long, and accounting for the 3rd day.

It would take an historian who can translate the Hebrew calender of the day, to coincide with the (speculated) year of the crucifixion.

I think Notyourtypical has info on this.

Again, that demands that one throw out any connection of the Crucifixion to the Sabbath, and that's far more problematic than saying that just because we don't see "three days and three nights" in there, the people of the time did.

Roth's theory, as outlined above, does not negate any connection between the Crucifixion date and Shabbat.

There are 2 types of Shabbat. High Holy Day Shabbat and ordinary Shabbat. Passover is considered a High Holy Day, and thus there would have been 2 Shabbats celebrated in a single week.

Again, you have to go back to the original Aramaic, and not depend upon a modern translation that goes from Aramaic to Greek to Latin to English. Frankly, the Greeks botched the translation in so many places, you have to really look closely at an Aramaic to English translation, or learn Aramaic itself. Roth is one of the few biblical authors that has done just that, and he clears up a lot of these mistranslations, confusing passages, etc.

There's something in there about the "High Sabbath" in which the high holiday of Passover and the Friday Sabbath, somehow coincide.

Bingo.

reply to post by CookieMonster09


Well, okay, I guess that could well be the case, as it shifts the day of crucifixion, not resurrection. Thanks for the info.

That said, as I have said before to the SDA crowd -- I highly doubt that God is overly concerned with dates and times, and if it was of any importance to him, it wouldn't be obscure.

reply to post by CookieMonster09


Has this Roth fellow written any books on the subject? If so, do you know the titles?

Has this Roth fellow written any books on the subject? If so, do you know the titles?

He has - He wrote an Aramaic English New Testament translation. He's one of a few authors that I have read that have started translating the New Testament into English from the Aramaic. Amazon has several authors that have done recent similar translations.

I've long been frustrated with the multitude of translation errors in the New and Old Testament. The best I have been able to do is to read the Stone Edition of the Tanach - a great English translation of the Old Testament from an Orthodox Jewish perspective for the layperson, and Roth's translation for the New Testament. Roth has a huge Appendix in the back of the book -- a good bulk of which espouses his theological bent.

Sid Roth's television show promotes The One New Man Bible which I believe is along the same lines as Roth. I haven't read it yet, nor purchased it yet.

I have pretty much come to the conclusion that unless you know Hebrew and Aramaic, you are pretty much at the mercy of the translator. Hebrew and Aramaic have all of these subtle nuances and idiomatic expressions that are difficult to convey in English.

reply to post by CookieMonster09


What "Aramaic version"? The New Testament was written entirely in Koine Greek.

What "Aramaic version"? The New Testament was written entirely in Koine Greek.

Some scholars - the minority opinion, no doubt - believe that the Greek was translated from an Aramaic original.

On a basic level, those advocating the primacy of Aramaic New Testament focus on the high probability that the native language of Jesus, his Apostles, and most or all the authors of the New Testament was Aramaic, not Koine Greek.

They also note that the first Christian communities may have come into existence in mostly Aramaic-speaking areas now in modern Lebanon, Syria, and Israel, and that the first converts to Christianity were likely members of Aramaic-speaking Jewish synagogues, even when in Greek or Latin-speaking cities.

Advocates of an Aramaic original also refer to the patristic writings (Papias, Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, Eusebius, Jerome) that indicate Aramaic was the original written language of parts of the New Testament.