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Obama won because we live in a Welfare State

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posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 11:18 AM
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reply to post by neoholographic
 


I'm so glad we live in a welfare state. After working my whole life I will get Social Security, Medicare. The rich don't need these programs and don't want to pay for them. too bad. If they don't like it they can move to another welfare state like Canada or Europe. If they don't like that they can go to Somalia




posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 11:25 AM
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Really?

You are aware that red states take the most fedral assistance while not putting as much back in don't you?

Democratic states do not receive nearly as much government assistance as those southern republican states. This is a fact.

You are creating a straw man to make yourself feel better. The GOP lost because their ideas suck, not because Dems want free stuff. Who is talking about giving free stuff away anyway? Cite examples.


 
Posted Via ATS Mobile: m.abovetopsecret.com
 



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 11:36 AM
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We should measure welfare's success by how many people leave welfare, not by how many are added.
Ronald Reagan

Unfortunately, this is no longer the case.

edit on 10-11-2012 by Alxandro because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 01:41 PM
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I find it appalling that people including Fox News are saying that we have to accept the welfare state consciousness in the country our Founding Fathers planted the Tree of Liberty. Nanny Statism is slavery to the World Totalitarian rule planned by evildoers and controllers. I will not give up because people want free stuff.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 01:54 PM
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reply to post by neoholographic
 


For the most part, I think a lot of what you are saying is true, of course I'm speaking mostly of obamacare. I don't think its good, but I have to agree that something had to be done. Obama didn't create these problems, hes just looking for a way to deal with them, and I can respect the attempt.

I had assumed that most of this drive was from the debt that gets created by people from medical expenses, and they never pay them. The problem is that there will never be a heatlh insurance that can cover this cost. No one has ever learned yet that they need to seriously roll back health costs to get a real grip on this problem.

Taxing full time workers is something that shouldn't have been done, taxing a higher bracket should have been a better way to go. Obviously I fall into that lower bracket, but I'm not working full time which makes me exempt from the tax. So I will get paid health care and not have to pay into that tax based on the fact that I don't qualify for the tax.

IMO I think this problem arose from greedy business owners. When an employer doesn't pay enough for an employee to be able to afford health care, there is something wrong with the system. There is more to the picture as well, there needs to be roll back on the cost of rent and homes which is also the banks causing this trouble. This is not an issued of getting anything for free, its an issue of being screwed by the system. Banks are owning people and they shouldnt be able to.

Papa Johns pizza is going to cut hours to all of their employees so that they don't have to comply with the heatlh care request, so once again the employee gets screwed. We need this so bad to happen because up untill now the government hasn't recognized the greed issue with wealthy business owners. Other business owners will jump on the band wagon and also cut full time hours so that they too don't have to comply with the heatlh care changes. This places more responsability back on the government, which they will eventually recognize, and when they do they will learn that its the employers that have always caused the problems to begin with.

Taco bell as an example pays minimum wage as an example, because they can. You can't tell me that Taco bell couldn't afford to pay 25% more in wages to all of their employees. It doesn't even do anything when the government raises the minimum wage because the business immediatly act and raise all their prices to accomodate the change. They just pass the loss on to the public and the employees. There are two ways to look at this, you might say ya they should, or they are screwing us.

My understanding comes from a lifetime of different employers that have screwed over the system. One employer I worked for paid minimum wage but revealed to us in a meeting that we were the largest electronics producer in the world, If thats true why are they paying their employees minimum wage? Because they can. Employers have never been happy with just making money off their product and business, they also want to make money off the employees too.

Employers are firm that you must show up to your shift and show up on time, and not call in sick. This is obvioulsy becuase you are important, but not important enough to pay a good wage and not important enough to afford a health package so that your not sick on the job.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 02:51 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 


I understand your grievances but this is the world we live in. The United States is built on the power and liberty of the individual and not the Collective or Government. This is a choice that's facing us now and Obama's transformation of America seems to be liked by many Americans.

This is sad because Obama's America isn't about the God Given rights of the individual, it's about the collective and all powerful Government. Individual rights are meaningless if they're not good for the collective. This gives a small group of crooked Politicians power to control the collective. They can tell you how to live the more you depend on them for everything.

This is why Obama said he was bringing Americans Collective Salvation and he said the Constitution was fundamentally flawed because it doesn't talk about the redistribution of wealth.

The problem with Redistribution of Wealth is that a small group of crooked Politicians control everything. So Obama says he's going to help the Middle Class but he has done more to destroy the middle class than most Presidents before him.

Massive debt, poverty up, unemployment up and cheap dollars enriching the 1% that Obama always speaks against.

As far as working for businesses like Taco Bell or Papa John's people shouldn't settle for those jobs if they don't like them and they shouldn't want Government to step in because that will just make things worse for the individual and the business. We're 16 trillion dollars in debt and the Fed is flooding the market with cheap dollars just to keep us above water.

It makes zero sense to support Obama when he talks of more taxes and bigger Govt. when America is sinking in Debt. The crash that's coming will be thunderous. The Fed basically booms the economy with cheap dollars. This artificial boom by the Fed under Obama will crash the economy worse than the Real Estate boom and bust or the .Com boom and bust.

I had a friend who worked at a Convenient Store nights and weekends while he was going to Barber College. He now owns his own Barber Shop, drives a Escalade, has a house and 4 employees.

My point is, people have to stop whining and make their own way. Too many people are saying they need Govt. for everything when they just need themselves. Again, we're 16 trillion in the hole and Obama will promise the world and deliver nothing but destruction as he borrows and spends us into Oblivion.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 03:22 PM
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Yes, this is definitely a change for the worse. How did this happen?
BO played it like he was Santa Claus - handing out free money, phones, etc.
and Robin Hood, stealing from the hard working rich to give to the lazy a** poor.
We should divide this country in half - the Dems take one side and the Republicans take the other.
Gee I wonder how long the Dims would last supporting their welfare country? Sounds like a plan to me.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 03:48 PM
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reply to post by neoholographic
 


I don't agree, I think most of the problems we are faced with today are because of lack of control on what businesses are allowed to pay thier employees. Granted taxing us all to death is not the solution but only the middle and upper class are getting taxed. It's the poor people that are getting a break.

Employers really screwed themselves this time, because they thought they could take control of UI funds by cutting hours and eliminating that pay out, even though it was at the cost of the employees income. Someone has to pay for these benefits and the goverment isn't going to do it. It's projected that by the year 2016 each single adult that has decided to NOT accept and pay for a health care package will get a $695 penalty. It's projected to multiply that by the millions that will feel its cheaper to pay the one time $695 rather than carry a monthly health premium. This money is suppose to more than offset the cost of the poor people that are getting free medical.

The problem is that most employers are going to cut employers hours to avoid having to supply heatlh insurance. This will throw the cost once again back on the government. Either way, it looks like the employee is taken care of this time. Whats sad is that it actually looks like its more worth it to only work part time. You would get $200 a month in food stamps up until about the $500 a month income mark, with about a 30% decrease up until around the $1,200 amount. Along with this you would also get paid heatlh care. The cost is probably around $200 to $300 a month. So the question is if its worth it to work your last 80.5 of your 161 full time hours. It's looking like you would still make about $300 but that could mostly go to taxes, so no, its not worth it. It's More worth it to work part time and get food stamps and free health care.

Not that many people have an option right now anyhow. I have been out of full time work for over 4 years now. I have had part time work however. I think most people are working part time or have reduced hours. If its so easy for employees to just cut hours, I'm sure thats exactly what they will do.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 04:28 PM
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reply to post by itsthetooth
 


Your post proves my point.

In an Obama economy, it's best to get a part time job, get food stamps and "free" healthcare than it is to work a full time job. But who pays for this?

We're 16 trillion in debt. You will not tax the wealthy to death because they will just park their money overseas or into things like Gold or Mutual Funds.

The Government will then borrow and spend based on projections of revenue from these taxes. When the revenue doesn't come in, who pays? The Poor and the Middle Class.

The Fed will have to print up more cheap dollars which will drive up the price of everything from Food to Gas.

This is why under Obama there's more poverty, unemployment, cheap dollars flooding the market and the gap between the rich and the poor has increased.

People think the Government is giving them "free" stuff but nothing is free.



posted on Nov, 10 2012 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by neoholographic
 


Well your right nothing is for free, the people that will be covering the health costs for the poor, is all the people that have access to health care that costs below 8% of thier income. There is an easy way around this, employers could just use a more expensive health care so that it doesn't fall within the 8% goal.

I think your missing the point here so maybe if I lay this out in a different way it will make more sense. Who has the money the employee or the employer? The employer doesn't want to pay good wages they would rather pay minimum wage, and we currently have a system that supports them in doing this. The employer doesn't want to pay for a health package so that the employee doesn't have to call in sick to work, but they sure do want them to show up to work not sick. The employer doesn't want to pay UI benefits so cuts employees hours. The employer doesn't want to be forced to offer a health package so they are cutting hours to avoid that too.

As you can see, the problem is and always has been the employer, this has nothing to do with Joe Smoe wanting free health care, these problems have always existed long before it was ever brought up. The bottom line is the employer doesn't wan't to pay for dick. Now they do want a reliable, responsible, and sufficiant, dependable employee, but they don't want to pay to take care of them. IMO these types of employers shouldn't be in business. When I don't make enough money to fix a flat tire on my car, something is very wrong with the system here.

Plus, I don't feel that Obama caused any of this, I think this all got dumped in his lap from things that happened back when Bush was in office. Free health care for the poor at the earners expense sounds unfair but I think the goal here is that if people all have health insurance, they wont be racking up anymore unpaid medical bills. And if for some reason they choose to take the cheap rout out by just paying the $695 a year, ya they will have saved some money on costs but they also wont have medical coverage.

The bottom line is what did you expect him to do? You can't tax people that don't have an income. People that are living like 200% below the poverty line couldn't possibly be expected to pay for it. We had an excellent option years ago where just a mere $15 a month and copay, You had insurance. Unfortunatly when your income is 0 not even that is possible.
edit on 10-11-2012 by itsthetooth because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 01:23 PM
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reply to post by neoholographic
 


You know what I'm trying to figure out, how is it that just a few years ago I could get the basic health package for $15 a month not including copay, now everone will have to pay about $200 a month for a health plan. Something is not right here.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 01:25 PM
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Show me how the situation differs between a sitting republican president and democratic president. For the last 30 years or more the talk before the election was quite different, but as far as action goes, where exactly was the difference between the democrats and republicans? Last fiscal conservative I can remember was Bill Clinton.



posted on Nov, 11 2012 @ 05:29 PM
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reply to post by Merinda
 


Thats because both of them support corporations. It doesn't matter if you vote for republican or democrats, they are both going to have a high interest in corporate america. This is why I didn't want to vote for either one of them but instead vote for Jill Stien. Shes part of the green party and has a higher interest in the person instead of the business.

One comment she made was how she couldn't understand why we are bailing out the banks when we could be baling out all the poor people that owe school loans. Sounds a little crazy but honestly why do we look at bailing out banks as an acceptable thing and bailing out poor people as a no no?



posted on Nov, 12 2012 @ 10:49 PM
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Oh wow! And this kind of thinking is going to offer a real solution because....

The top elite capitalist class put millions of Americans into poverty and destroyed the US economy and the GOP wanted to gave a president from the exact same class of people. That is why Obama got reelected. It was because the GOP is sticking to the old way of thinking which caused the mess the US is in now.

Face it conservatives the idea of having everyone in a mad dash for profit, without any protection for the common worker or regulation in general, is not going to work anymore. America has had enough of that. We need to rebuild the nation so there will be jobs for people and a wage higher enough so people can life with decently instead of like subway rats.



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 04:51 AM
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USA is a welfare state for the rich. With Obama winning, the elite are looking at higher taxes. That's why they are crying so bad.
But it's not like Obama is going to cut these parasites of completely - see military-industrial complex.
militaryindustrialcomplex.com...



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 04:25 PM
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Taxes are being raised because its the ultima ratio, same for extending healthcare. The people have gone as far as they can with hire and fire, less money more work, rising costs. Right now there are still Americans spending top dollars on your iPad and iPhone, but if they get hammered any more, consumption might slow down more and with it corporate profits.

Of course those in power could set themselves up that they can get their dollars straight out of the printing press (and to some extend those in power did), but what good is money to you, if the underlying economy and with it all goods and services collapses.

The very wealthy whom control both sides are not crying, they just realize they need to ease up a little, or risk everything.
edit on 13-11-2012 by Merinda because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 13 2012 @ 08:46 PM
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reply to post by neoholographic
 


I was just reading online about the mega tax breaks and assistance that small business is getting in part of this new health care reform, so its only the large corporations that are crying, the ones with all the money.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 10:22 AM
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The good news is that the people that voted for Obama will suffer the most economically. Obama got 67% of the youth vote, yet they have the highest unemployment rate. The blacks, in a display of the most blatant form of racism, voted for their messiah almost exclusively. 19,600 blacks in 59 precincts in Philadelphia voted for Obama, while Romney received ZERO votes. Blacks, under Obama had the highest unemployment rate of any demographic, and they voted for more. It's about time that those that think the government owes them a living get off their duffs and actually go out and work for a living. Oh, wait , there are no jobs, right? Right now, thousands of companies are hiring for the holidays. Beneath you? Tough. work or starve.



posted on Nov, 14 2012 @ 10:25 AM
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You do not live in a welfare state. Foodstamps are not programs that help equalize people.

Medicare is not people/nation run/government run, mixed in with private insurance. You can't run the two together without fleecing the citizens even more.

Medical means an end to private insurance and people run/state run programs.

You guys need far better programs, far more equalizing programs to even toe in to being liberal, let alone socialist by a world standard.
edit on 14-11-2012 by Unity_99 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 17 2012 @ 12:23 PM
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reply to post by Merinda
 





Taxes are being raised because its the ultima ratio, same for extending healthcare. The people have gone as far as they can with hire and fire, less money more work, rising costs. Right now there are still Americans spending top dollars on your iPad and iPhone, but if they get hammered any more, consumption might slow down more and with it corporate profits.

Of course those in power could set themselves up that they can get their dollars straight out of the printing press (and to some extend those in power did), but what good is money to you, if the underlying economy and with it all goods and services collapses.

The very wealthy whom control both sides are not crying, they just realize they need to ease up a little, or risk everything
I think its to late. Push has come to shove and people have been spotted for to much greed. What a sad time this is, thats so bad that the government has to stick their nose into slavery. The bottom line is if people wouldn't have been so greedy to begin with, none of this would have ever happened. But why pay someone a decent wage when you can profit off their wages. I have allready don't the math to caculate what type of income would somone need to just get by and we are sitting about 1/2 of what it needs to be. I can't argue that I don't be able to afford health care if I do get a full time job, but its nice to know that employers are going to have to start sending the love this way to ensure I don't call in sick.

Employers have gotten away with enslaving people for far to long, and its still going on, even with the new health care changes, they still pay crappy wages. This is why so many states are requesting to secede from the union, they want to take their slaves and have their own way with them.

The only difference between having medical and not is you can't end up in debt from not paying your bills, and you will have the option of seeing a doctor when you need one. No more of this wating until 10 things are wrong with you to try to save money. Of course this is all good news for the medical field as well as now thier pockets are secure.





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