A Loving God who throws folks in hell because they didn't want to be controlled by him?

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

Originally posted by ImaFungi
the punishment is not being his friend,.,.,., not coming over to his house,.,.,. if you can exist without his love and ideals,.,., then go for it,,,, is what he is saying,,,, if you would like to be thankful for what he has created including your existence,, then you will have no problem acknowledging his goodness,,

you are perceiving his disowning of you as a punishment,,, but if you do not want him to own you,, then it is what you asked for

But that "not being his friend" comes with the consequence of SUFFERING in hell, right? Why does the suffering have to be included if it isn't a punishment but just a choose? Why can't you choose hell without suffering? No free will. Just redefining terms to make the god sound "Loving".

because god created the universe and in turn you,.,..,,.

without god,,, you are nothing,,, only chaos exists without god,,, the lack of the order god created exists without god,,, where will you go without god or reside?

you want him to build a palace for you to dwell in enternity? or you want him to give every entity their own universe with the ability to create whatever they want?
that could potentially turn into "hell"...

reply to post by arpgme


You pose the title like that. And I've heard that a gazillion times. Or the other way of saying it is you choose hell because you choose not to have your sins removed which you need to have in order to enter heaven.

Here's on analogy. There's fine resturant you've been invited too. The invite says you have to come wearing formal clothing to enter. If you don't then you won't be allowed in. But maybe were you're from it's more relaxed rules so you think you'll chance it. Then at the door you're not allowed in. Who's fault is it? Yours obviously. You knew full well in advanced they required formal attire to get in, but you choose to ignore it.

Or maybe one more.... A ship your on is sinking and you're in shark infested waters. You've been told that the captain has personally saved a seat in the lifeboat for you. And your given an instruction manual. You're told to read the manual so you understand how to enter the lifeboat safely. And also you before you enter the lifeboat you have to sware an oath that you will follow the rules of the captain and if you don't sware the oath then the captain won't let you on the life boat. So the ship is now only hours away from the point where it's going down. Some friends are saying...."ahh forget those stupid lifeboats, and the captain and his stupid rules! Just come drink and party with us while you can. If we end up with the sharks so be it.". Some other people are saying to you "okay come on lets get to the life boat and did you read the manual and have you swarn the oath before getting on the lifeboat which is all you need to prove to the captain that you're a trustworthy person to bring onto the lifeboat?" and so you find yourself facing a decision. So you talk to some others who are facing the same problem. You say "wow that stupid captain, he actually requires me to read this instruction manual and sware and oath to him in order to get on the lifeboat and be saved". Some are saying "it's stupid", others are like "well it's not hard to do when you think about it?" So in the end regardless of what you do it's your choice and your responsibility as it's just the way the system was built.

reply to post by r2d246

And then you've got the guy who read the rules, wore the tux, swore the oath and didn't make it into the lifeboat.

Because he had no legs.

God is great, eh?

reply to post by r2d246

Originally posted by r2d246
reply to post by arpgme

 

You pose the title like that. And I've heard that a gazillion times. Or the other way of saying it is you choose hell because you choose not to have your sins removed which you need to have in order to enter heaven.

Here's on analogy. There's fine resturant you've been invited too. The invite says you have to come wearing formal clothing to enter. If you don't then you won't be allowed in. But maybe were you're from it's more relaxed rules so you think you'll chance it. Then at the door you're not allowed in. Who's fault is it? Yours obviously. You knew full well in advanced they required formal attire to get in, but you choose to ignore it.

But is the restaurant threatening my life with eternal torture for not making it inside? No.

Originally posted by r2d246
reply to post by arpgme

 

Or maybe one more.... A ship your on is sinking and you're in shark infested waters. You've been told that the captain has personally saved a seat in the lifeboat for you...

It's not the same at all. Imagine if the captain created the ocean and the sharks and he KNEW in advance that the ship would sink. He also designed the life boat knowing full well that most would not be able to operate it. Now THAT is more similar to this god situation...

Look.

I'm "God", you're "God" ... everything is this "God".

The problem lies in the fact that we as humans cannot possibly put ourselves into the shoes of a force so powerful it created the universe. We simply cannot, nor ever will be able to "think like God".

Many have tried and invented squirley teachings and moral dogmas to try and explain and understand "God".

God is not an "entity" nor is it a "creature/person". This is where we as humans have failed. This is why we've created these insane cults and belief systems. We assume whatever "God" is -- it has to have emotions and think like we do. This is # for brains thinking.

I know that I'm whatever this "God-ness" is -- experiencing a 3-D adventure on Earth. I wish I had more wizzard powers, though.

Let me pose a question to the masses:

How can a creature such as yourself insult or anger a force so great and complex? How can an individual skin cell on your arm make you so mad or upset that you somehow punish it?

It's asinine to think that something so incredibly powerful could ever be hurt or upset because you did something "bad". Even killing millions would be small potatos to a force that creates supernovas and black holes.

No, religion is nothing more than caveman-like-thinking to explain that which cannot be understood.

ETA: Everything *is* everything. I've been babbling this for years and no one seems to listen. When you die, you go back to the blinding white light of everything and nothing at the same time. It's as if you are back to where it all began, where there is nothing but pure potential.

In fact, there is no time there. I've been there a few times. When you're in that space it's hard to remember who and what you are/were. The fact that it all never began and never will end doesn't even matter.

Let me put it to you like this. If you could be, do, see anything -- ANYTHING, what would you do?

You'd do EVERYTHING! That is what "God" did -- everything in every possible infinite combination. It'll never end, because it never began. It's a paradox for sure to our very limited 3-dimensional minds.

Anyone watch Dr. Who? Remember the Pandoricum? Reality is sort of like that. It's a never ending rabbit hole that traps itself into infinity.

Originally posted by ImaFungi

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

Originally posted by ImaFungi
the punishment is not being his friend,.,.,., not coming over to his house,.,.,. if you can exist without his love and ideals,.,., then go for it,,,, is what he is saying,,,, if you would like to be thankful for what he has created including your existence,, then you will have no problem acknowledging his goodness,,

you are perceiving his disowning of you as a punishment,,, but if you do not want him to own you,, then it is what you asked for

But that "not being his friend" comes with the consequence of SUFFERING in hell, right? Why does the suffering have to be included if it isn't a punishment but just a choose? Why can't you choose hell without suffering? No free will. Just redefining terms to make the god sound "Loving".

because god created the universe and in turn you,.,..,,.

without god,,, you are nothing,,, only chaos exists without god,,, the lack of the order god created exists without god,,, where will you go without god or reside?

you want him to build a palace for you to dwell in enternity? or you want him to give every entity their own universe with the ability to create whatever they want?
that could potentially turn into "hell"...

Fungi, Fungi my friend...

How can someone be without a non-entity? We're always without non-entities by default.

By "God" do you mean the idea of God? People can still live without an idea. The universe continues without concepts.

If by God you mean an entity called God, I would ask where your convictions are derived from? because you made many daring assertions in one sentence.

reply to post by arpgme


There is a lot of confusion as to what "hell" is. Hell comes from the word "HADES" which mean death or grave. God so loved the World that he gave his only Son, and whoever believes in him shall not die(HADES), but shall have everlasting life. If you do not want his control then you will just return to the grave after Judgement. No fire or brimstone, just "death". Those of us that accept his control will go on to everlasting life.

reply to post by VeniVidi

Those of us that accept his control will go on to everlasting life.

How does God control you? Did you have to give up your freewill for that to happen?

reply to post by VeniVidi


Who wants to live forever with a bunch of prudes?

Not me ... that would get pretty boring after about the oh, I don't know...300,000 year mark.

I'd probably be looking for ways to un-everlast my life.

reply to post by MystikMushroom

How would you know? You're a mushroom. He keeps you in the dark and feeds you poop!

reply to post by subjectzero


Yes, but my spores are from space ... coated in some of the hardest organic substances known to man. They can exist and drift in interstellar space for millions of years before finding a planet to seed.

Perhaps if you want to meet an alien, take a look outside after it rains

Oh lord, you got me rambling again.

Anyway....

To me, hell would be having to be stuck as the person you are for eternity.

reply to post by MystikMushroom

I AM an alien.

Originally posted by subjectzero
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

The Church is sitting on original manuscripts. It needs to release these to a group of select scholars for proper translation and publication.

Maybe they don't want people to know that Aliens exist and that we are smaller then we look compared to other beings. Bit like on MIB movie at the end where the alien is rolling earth as a marble along with other planet marbles. Why would the church hide important manuscripts from the public but release others probably the others have been edited so much to scare you into believing. We need to see the bigger picture outside the religion box and question what we read from books. I believe that we hold the answers to everything in our subconscious mind and we get that info from energy.

reply to post by Sk8ergrl

Originally posted by mc4denmark

Originally posted by adjensen
God doesn't throw you anywhere.

Hell was created for the demons, and is the only place in the non-material world where God is not present.

So, after a lifetime of not needing God, not loving God, not wanting to be in God's presence, you are granted exactly what you've insisted upon -- existence without God.

Where's the injustice in that?

edit on 8-11-2012 by adjensen because: (no reason given)

Well that depends, if god created that realm with pain and suffering then its not quite fair, or the other hand, if god have no place in that realm people probably live in harmony with each other, since no one is arguing how others should live there life, in that case, beam me down scotty

Do you think people in heaven are arguing how to live their lives amongst one another? once you die you are apart of infinite wisdom and all knowing.

reply to post by Foxy1

That's one theory.

God is an animal abuser.

Originally posted by Foxy1

Originally posted by mc4denmark

Originally posted by adjensen
God doesn't throw you anywhere.

Hell was created for the demons, and is the only place in the non-material world where God is not present.

So, after a lifetime of not needing God, not loving God, not wanting to be in God's presence, you are granted exactly what you've insisted upon -- existence without God.

Where's the injustice in that?

edit on 8-11-2012 by adjensen because: (no reason given)

Well that depends, if god created that realm with pain and suffering then its not quite fair, or the other hand, if god have no place in that realm people probably live in harmony with each other, since no one is arguing how others should live there life, in that case, beam me down scotty

Do you think people in heaven are arguing how to live their lives amongst one another?

Maybe

once you die you are apart of infinite wisdom and all knowing.

Not according to Jesus.

Matthew 18:18
"I tell you the truth, whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven."

God is holy. Therefore God must be just, otherwise he isn't holy.
You must be judged according to the law. Why his law? He is the creator, so he writes the rules.
Think that is unfair? How about Hitler or Stalin or Manson or Sandusky or the millions of other people who have done unspeakable things. Do you think they deserve to be held accountable for what they have done?

God is loving because we deserve destruction, yet he provides a way of forgiveness.
Think it's illogical or that you don't need forgiveness? Fine. Better hope you are right because if you die and you're wrong then it's game over.

reply to post by MeesterB

Why do we deserve destruction?

What did I do?