A Loving God who throws folks in hell because they didn't want to be controlled by him?

Originally posted by arpgme
How can you love someone if you can't even accept them for who they are, but instead want to change them? If that is the case you do not love THEM, you love who you WANT them to be.

If this is the case, how could a God claim to be love itself? That would be a lie, since the only love is when people are fulfilling HIS desire to be as HE wants them to be.

If there were a god, and if that god created us, what does the human evidence suggest on the nature of this god? We've been warring since before biblical times. We are hellbent on destroying the planet. We men lust after everything with boobs. Women are controlled by a monthly cycle. Everywhere we look we see people full of greed, hungry for power, criminals, insane people...

If we were created in his image and likeness, I'd stay far away from him if I were you!

Nothing?

Hell is the delusion that we have to wait for it to be so.

The Heart Attack Grill, women who refuse to say no to the camera, the excess of billionaires. What do you think God thinks of these things?

What do you think the devil is up to?

reply to post by arpgme


hell is just the place God is not...get it?


You choose to go there, He does His best to deter it from being so.
You choose not to live in His house.
Get it?

You choose, He is there waiting for the chance for you to experience His love, or not, your choice....get it?

Hell is a place for those that do not want to dwell in His presence. He does not have a presence in Hell. That's what makes it hell. That's the description of hell, it's definition is that place where God does not dwell or His presence is known.
so what is your peoblem with that if you don't want to exist in His love?
Is it important to call Him a big meanie because He honors your wishes?
You get to simply.....choose.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by adjensen

 

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by arpgme
Going to hell is the punishment for not letting the god control you.

You have a very bizarre and immature view of what living a Christian life is. I live my life in congruence with God's will because that's what feels right to me. I enjoy being charitable, I enjoy being honest, I enjoy being moral, I enjoy... well, I just enjoy "loving God with all my heart, mind and strength, and loving my neighbour as myself."

I enjoy having God in my life because it has helped me through some very dark and difficult times, and because spending time with him every day helps keep me centered and focused on what is right and good, rather than what is "comfortable for me."

The moment that one realizes that the universe does not circulate around oneself, along with their desires and ambitions, is the moment of ultimate freedom from control, no longer living under the yoke of it.

If you WANT and ENJOY that life, good for you. Still doesn't change the fact that Hell is a place where God sends people when they don't want to be controlled.

Well, if that's what you really believe, and that's the price that you're willing to pay, I sincerely hope that you do more with your life than posting whinging threads on ATS that convince no one of anything.

Sincerely.

Originally posted by subjectzero
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

Short and sweet - spiritual war and the Devil is winning. Hell is real, but it's not what people think it is.

Reality cannot be related. It must be experienced. My backstage pass was courtesy of a NDE.

Look right over your shoulder everyone because the man with the horns is breathing down your neck and that is a fact.

Now you go ahead and call me crazy. I know you're going to and that's fine. I'm square all the way around.

i dont think your crazy,,, i just wish youd ellaborate more,,.,.,.

hell is real but its not what people think....... can you please clear up misconceptions then? what is hell? what do you think hell is?

the devil is winning what? more souls? then what? does the devil like the souls it gets? does the devil hate everything and everyone including the souls? what is the devil made out of?

its so easy to say,, its not this its not that its not what you think,,,, but so hard to say what it is

Originally posted by jiggerj

Originally posted by arpgme
How can you love someone if you can't even accept them for who they are, but instead want to change them? If that is the case you do not love THEM, you love who you WANT them to be.

If this is the case, how could a God claim to be love itself? That would be a lie, since the only love is when people are fulfilling HIS desire to be as HE wants them to be.

If there were a god, and if that god created us, what does the human evidence suggest on the nature of this god? We've been warring since before biblical times. We are hellbent on destroying the planet. We men lust after everything with boobs. Women are controlled by a monthly cycle. Everywhere we look we see people full of greed, hungry for power, criminals, insane people...

If we were created in his image and likeness, I'd stay far away from him if I were you!

I don't think there's much history of war before biblical times (like pre-3000 BCE), in fact the warring seems to have really started around those times... There are way more people against destroying the planet than there are that actually want to destroy it, otherwise it would be all gone by now and us with it. Boobs are a gift. Menstruation, putting it lightly, is just another quirk of nature, and it's still ongoing because it serves a purpose; you don't blame a flower for being blue, because that's just how it is. Everywhere I look I see an ecstatic theatre, one that can elate me to great happiness just as much as it can send me spiralling downward into sorrow, and everything in between.

You see? It's all subjective.

Given the choice to witness the full spectrum of the human psyche versus not experiencing it in it's entirety, well, I wouldn't be here and nor would anyone else. But you see, things change, and change is inevitable. But they won't remain the way they are for too long because nothing is truly static. Every wave has a trough and a crest, and that's the nature of reality. It can be scary going down but it doesn't go down forever.

reply to post by ImaFungi

I wrote a big post but wiped it out to say just this - be a decent person and you won't have to worry about the devil at your shoulder. He's there, but he can't hurt you if you do the right thing.

What I saw isn't for everyone.

reply to post by arpgme


You are creating a pretext to truth. There are absolutes of truth that are easily seen against absolutes of evil. It's not a matter of God accepting you just as you are or you adapting yourself to His whims. God is aligned with truth. Our reality is out of context with truth. The point of being human is to love and help other humans and to give. Thieves take. This is the central root from which all of us grow. Choices make us who we are. We all are equal in the fact that we think and move only. We do not make our hair grow, the sun shine, gravity work or any of it. We simply move and think. The quality of this movement changes the states of matter and the quality of the change determines how law affects you. You can jump up, but you will come down. It's all guided by natural law.

Suffering is either something that is a result of a cause toward reward or a result of taking on debt. You have the choice and God set the laws of nature to settings that disallow your ability to escape the point of life. Either you take reward and suffer as a result or you make suffering the cause of your reward. Either way, you will suffer.

If you smoke, you get cancer. If you go to the gym, you gain health. God has little to say about your choice to do either. He simply states that one is better than the other and then allows you free will to choose. Make the best choices possible and you will have no reason to complain. Make the choice to take as a thief and you will suffer and reap what you sow. Suffer on purpose and you reap reward. It's your choice.

Jesus said it and so did Buddha. What was Buddha's mistake? He ran from suffering and negated the reward that life offers to those who give and receive. By leaving his family and renouncing suffering, he gave up. Jesus came to give life and life more abundantly. He was our example.

Chapter 1 - Choices
We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts we make the world.
Speak or act with an impure mind
And trouble will follow you
As the wheel follows the ox that draws the cart.
We are what we think.
All that we are arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts we make the world.
Speak or act with a pure mind
And happiness will follow you
As your shadow, unshakable.
"Look how he abused me and hurt me,
How he threw me down and robbed me."
Live with such thoughts and you live in hate.
"Look how he abused me and hurt me,
How he threw me down and robbed me."
Abandon such thoughts, and live in love.
In this world
Hate never yet dispelled hate.
Only love dispels hate.
This is the law,
Ancient and inexhaustible.

reply to post by EnochWasRight

My uncle ran and ate like a bird. Died of a massive heart attack at 48.

Some of the biggest thieves on the planet are in Congress, not prison.

Some of the hardest working people make the least amount of money.

God sure is a swell guy.

Originally posted by subjectzero
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

I wrote a big post but wiped it out to say just this - be a decent person and you won't have to worry about the devil at your shoulder. He's there, but he can't hurt you if you do the right thing.

What I saw isn't for everyone.

what did you see? how do you know it was real and not just made up in your imagination? the same way a nightmare can seem very really,, but is just made up in your imagination?

Originally posted by subjectzero
reply to post by EnochWasRight

 

My uncle ran and ate like a bird. Died of a massive heart attack at 48.

Some of the biggest thieves on the planet are in Congress, not prison.

Some of the hardest working people make the least amount of money.

God sure is a swell guy.

not gods fault your uncle died,, you can blame god for his birth perhaps,,, your uncle is lucky to have lived such a long life...

not gods fault,, the peoples fault for electing thieves into congress...

not gods fault,, peoples fault for establishing the values to duties and economies, and pay rates,,

god sure is a swell guy,, agreed

reply to post by adjensen

Originally posted by adjensen
Well, if that's what you really believe, and that's the price that you're willing to pay, I sincerely hope that you do more with your life than posting whinging threads on ATS that convince no one of anything.

Sincerely.

"I do more with my life" as if I sit here 24 hours a day complaining about stuff. And you say "convince no one of anything". How would you know? Do you know all the people who have saw this thread or will ever read it? No.


reply to post by EnochWasRight

Originally posted by EnochWasRight
reply to post by arpgme

 

You are creating a pretext to truth. There are absolutes of truth that are easily seen against absolutes of evil. It's not a matter of God accepting you just as you are or you adapting yourself to His whims. God is aligned with truth. Our reality is out of context with truth. The point of being human is to love and help other humans and to give. Thieves take. This is the central root from which all of us grow. Choices make us who we are. We all are equal in the fact that we think and move only. We do not make our hair grow, the sun shine, gravity work or any of it. We simply move and think. The quality of this movement changes the states of matter and the quality of the change determines how law affects you. You can jump up, but you will come down. It's all guided by natural law.

When you give and receive, people take advantage; those self who love to take will keep taking from you since you are always giving.

Originally posted by arpgme
How can you love someone if you can't even accept them for who they are, but instead want to change them? If that is the case you do not love THEM, you love who you WANT them to be.

If this is the case, how could a God claim to be love itself? That would be a lie, since the only love is when people are fulfilling HIS desire to be as HE wants them to be.

I don't quite follow your logic.. He does love us, He gives us the choice to love Him in return. The inverse of that gift is a percentage of people will refuse to love Him back. He gives you complete control over whether you want to follow Him and love Him in return.

Would you rather be a robot than a creature with a free will?

reply to post by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by arpgme
How can you love someone if you can't even accept them for who they are, but instead want to change them? If that is the case you do not love THEM, you love who you WANT them to be.

If this is the case, how could a God claim to be love itself? That would be a lie, since the only love is when people are fulfilling HIS desire to be as HE wants them to be.

I don't quite follow your logic.. He does love us, He gives us the choice to love Him in return. The inverse of that gift is a percentage of people will refuse to love Him back. He gives you complete control over whether you want to follow Him and love Him in return.

Would you rather be a robot than a creature with a free will?

edit on 8-11-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

So then, there should be no punishment for choosing not to, if he really love US. We are who we are, not who he wants us to be.

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by NOTurTypical

 

Originally posted by NOTurTypical

Originally posted by arpgme
How can you love someone if you can't even accept them for who they are, but instead want to change them? If that is the case you do not love THEM, you love who you WANT them to be.

If this is the case, how could a God claim to be love itself? That would be a lie, since the only love is when people are fulfilling HIS desire to be as HE wants them to be.

I don't quite follow your logic.. He does love us, He gives us the choice to love Him in return. The inverse of that gift is a percentage of people will refuse to love Him back. He gives you complete control over whether you want to follow Him and love Him in return.

Would you rather be a robot than a creature with a free will?

edit on 8-11-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

So then, there should be no punishment for choosing not to, if he really love US. We are who we are, not who he wants us to be.

the punishment is not being his friend,.,.,., not coming over to his house,.,.,. if you can exist without his love and ideals,.,., then go for it,,,, is what he is saying,,,, if you would like to be thankful for what he has created including your existence,, then you will have no problem acknowledging his goodness,,

you are perceiving his disowning of you as a punishment,,, but if you do not want him to own you,, then it is what you asked for

Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Would you rather be a robot than a creature with a free will?

edit on 8-11-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)

Abrahamic idea of freewill is essentially: follow this scripted programming or be disassembled. Seems quite robotic to me. My computer doesn't always do what I tell it to, but I don't throw it in the trash because of that. In fact, it seems more alive this way.

Organic vibrancy is pretty important...

reply to post by ImaFungi

Originally posted by ImaFungi
the punishment is not being his friend,.,.,., not coming over to his house,.,.,. if you can exist without his love and ideals,.,., then go for it,,,, is what he is saying,,,, if you would like to be thankful for what he has created including your existence,, then you will have no problem acknowledging his goodness,,

you are perceiving his disowning of you as a punishment,,, but if you do not want him to own you,, then it is what you asked for

But that "not being his friend" comes with the consequence of SUFFERING in hell, right? Why does the suffering have to be included if it isn't a punishment but just a choose? Why can't you choose hell without suffering? No free will. Just redefining terms to make the god sound "Loving".

Ok not really an issue here but.............God does not send people to hell. No where in any scripture known to man does it say god will send anyone to hell...the only thing in the bible that speaks of hell is that lucifer/devil/dragon will be cast into a lake of eternal fire with his fallen angels by god and his angels,that man will either be rewarded with heaven or take part in what is known as the second death.read up the proof is there.........I am sick of people attacking other peoples ideas/religion's and customs based on ignorance....it sickens me.

reply to post by Onewhoknowsjesus

Originally posted by Onewhoknowsjesus
Ok not really an issue here but.............God does not send people to hell. No where in any scripture known to man does it say god will send anyone to hell...the only thing in the bible that speaks of hell is that lucifer/devil/dragon will be cast into a lake of eternal fire with his fallen angels by god and his angels,that man will either be rewarded with heaven or take part in what is known as the second death.read up the proof is there.........I am sick of people attacking other peoples ideas/religion's and customs based on ignorance....it sickens me.

I didn't attack anyone's "religion". I am addressing people with this specific belief. This is why I tried not to mention the bible in the original post.

Originally posted by ZeroReady
You're not going to change 2000 years of dogma with a couple lines of text.

Religion doesn't make any sense. There's no use arguing with it. Just let religious people believe what they want. If they say their god is jealous, then just let them have a jealous god.

A vengeful God who would punish those who chose not to denounce (number of religions - 1) groups, or pygmies who never encountered a bible. I can't believe in a God like that. I don't think God would have the kind of ego that would warrant eternal flames for people who acknowledge that with our limited five senses, that which can be known is just that, limited. If I encounter the FSM upon death, I'll happily acknowledge him 110%.