A Loving God who throws folks in hell because they didn't want to be controlled by him?

I think it all depends on your definition of god. If you believe the biblical god, then you obviously believe in 'someone' with psycopathic tendencies, which may be why there are those who believe the biblical god is some fourth - or other - dimensional being who is actually a bit of a knob.
Then there are those - like myself - that believe that god truly is All That Is, or Infinite Oneness, in which case there is no judgement at all. Because there's no-ne to do all the judging.

reply to post by adjensen

Originally posted by adjensen
Reread what I wrote there. God plays no part in it -- you make the decision, you take the consequences. If you believe that hell exists and don't want to burn in fire, then make a different decision. If you don't believe in hell, then what's the point of this thread?

Why would there be consequences for not doing what someone else wants you to do if that person claims to be the essence of love itself? If you are the essence of love, why can't you love people for who they are instead of who you WANT them to be? That is a contradiction.

reply to post by ImaFungi

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by arpgme

 

your thread title equals....

a loving parent who punishes their kid/puts kid in time out ...... because the kid wanted to eat its poop, throw it at its parents and neighbors, and punch holes in the walls of the house

The difference between the parent and God is that the parent never claimed to be the essence of love. We already know that they will get angry or punish the child when the child gets out of control, but if they tortured the child for all eternity is that still love?

If you claim to be LOVE itself (God IS Love, not LovING but LOVE itself - claims the bible in John)
then how is it possible that you do NOT LOVE people as they are but only as you want them to be?

You keep talking about natural laws of nature, but nature never claimed to be love itself.

reply to post by arpgme

Think about what you wrote. You described women.

Originally posted by mc4denmark
Take it up with god? Hmm, I do not believe in a god, so that wont be a option.

So, by extension, you agree that God doesn't "throw folks in hell because they didn't want to be controlled by him"? Glad that we can come to agreement on that.

And I really dont see anywhere that Christianity teaches freedom and respect, the only phrase I heard is that Jesus tells one to turn the other cheek, sadly it seems to be a phrase that is not very used by "modern" Christians.

Here is the core of Christianity, from Christ's own words:

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22:36-40 NIV)

(And, to save you the bother of asking, yes, that's how I strive to live my life, as should all believing Christians.)

Originally posted by arpgme
Why would there be consequences for not doing what someone else wants you to do if that person claims to be the essence of love itself? If you are the essence of love, why can't you love people for who they are instead of who you WANT them to be? That is a contradiction.

You keep trying to deflect responsibility for your own decisions on someone else, and life doesn't (well, shouldn't) work that way. If you don't want to associate with God, he's not going to force you to, ever. Not in this life, not in the next.

Originally posted by subjectzero
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

Fungi, I would like you to give me some examples that prove God is benevolent.

im not sure I know god that much personally... but i know its work and its pretty cool..... first we will have to discuss what it means for something be real,,,,, then you will have to ponder what you are.... then you will have to think about how you were given existence and you did nothing for this universe to deserve that gift.... basically the universe doesn't cater to you,,, infinite history has become for this moment,,, you are late to the party,,,
so you can be thankful for this gift and do the best with it,,, do nothing or do anything,,, doing nothing or anything is similar to what the animals do even though some animals are rather civil..,., the being thankful and doing the best with life is more a trait of man,.,., this is possible with mans intelligence,..,., intelligence is thought to be a quality possessed by one that would have the ability to create a universe,,

back to what is real..,,.

if at the base of everything is the same fundamental qualities and quantities of pure/primal "energy" (whatever energy/matter IS at its most basic level),, then you and everything is nothing more then this twisted and additioned pure substance,..,., your life and experience is very real,,, the realest thing,, you are you,, and real,..,,. but if god exists,,, and there may be an after life,,, or this universe and existence is not what it seems to be..,., then after you die you may see that what you thought was "living" was not even as you thought... perhaps this fleshly existence is to experiment and comprehend concepts such as benevolence and malevolence,,,

basically what im saying,,, if reality is just a super hitech creation by an highly advanced intelligence,, to teach its creation and give experience and gain knowledge,, i dont know how such an intelligent creature could "get off" on the misfortune and suffering of its creation,,, and if it is all for learning,, then maybe upon death all will be healed and shown that they were just on a hidden camera show
and I have done nothing to deserve a life,, but have enjoyed so much time and memories in this one that i am thankful for one breath of air and one beat of heart,, for that the creator is good in my book,,,

i personally think the universe is a) an epic science experiment b) one of the greatest stories ever told and c) a lot of other things that do not come to mind exactly this moment.

reply to post by arpgme


Man claimed god was the essence of love...... can you find me evidence of god stating what he was?

reply to post by adjensen

With respect, you're wrong about this. He is onboard and the test is ongoing.

I had an NDE. He is real and so is his counterpart.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by mc4denmark
Take it up with god? Hmm, I do not believe in a god, so that wont be a option.

So, by extension, you agree that God doesn't "throw folks in hell because they didn't want to be controlled by him"? Glad that we can come to agreement on that.

And I really dont see anywhere that Christianity teaches freedom and respect, the only phrase I heard is that Jesus tells one to turn the other cheek, sadly it seems to be a phrase that is not very used by "modern" Christians.

Here is the core of Christianity, from Christ's own words:

“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.” (Matthew 22:36-40 NIV)

(And, to save you the bother of asking, yes, that's how I strive to live my life, as should all believing Christians.)

Well, actually I just commented on your thought that it was fair that god threw all non-believers in a pit with demons and all, but to answer you, no I dont think he do that, because the god as Christianity in my world does not exist. I do think we all have a sort of energy, a soul in lag of better words, which is beginning to be accepted in the field of quantum research, even though nothing solid is proven yet.

Still, Christianity has a nasty habit of alienating non-believers and "some" Christians use hell and alike to threaten does who does not share the beliefs, and that is one thing I complete dislike.

All so, there are many bloody stories in the bible and in the old testaments there are "rules" I simply can not share belief, such as ownership and possibility to sell ones daughter and slave laws.

reply to post by adjensen

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by arpgme
Why would there be consequences for not doing what someone else wants you to do if that person claims to be the essence of love itself? If you are the essence of love, why can't you love people for who they are instead of who you WANT them to be? That is a contradiction.

You keep trying to deflect responsibility for your own decisions on someone else, and life doesn't (well, shouldn't) work that way. If you don't want to associate with God, he's not going to force you to, ever. Not in this life, not in the next.

Responsibility implies that there is some type of obligation - in other words that "God" is "controlling". If he is "controlling" then that means he does not love people as they are but ONLY AS he WANT THEM TO BE.

So this God is NOT love, but only has selective loving which means that he CAN'T be the essence of love itself, which is my point.

reply to post by arpgme


i keep bringing up nature because nature is what we are and what we reside in and the only reason the concept of god has arisen and the only way we could potentially exist and the only way we may potentially know god..

reply to post by ImaFungi

This is not benevolence. God is selfish. He wants something from you.

reply to post by ImaFungi

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by arpgme

 

i keep bringing up nature because nature is what we are and what we reside in and the only reason the concept of god has arisen and the only way we could potentially exist and the only way we may potentially know god..

Ok, but "nature" and "God" should not be operating the same way since "nature" never claimed to be love but "God" did claim it according to the bible.

(By the way, there is a difference from being Loving and being Love [the embodiment of love itself])

reply to post by arpgme


do you love a shark about to bite your head off?

why should god love an evil man who distorts his creations and defiles his gift of life and harms his neighbors?

reply to post by ImaFungi

And the same could be said of God. Why should we love and obey that which would kill us and condemn us to burn forever?

reply to post by ImaFungi

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by arpgme

 

do you love a shark about to bite your head off?

Irrelevant. I didn't claim to be Love itself, only a LovING being.

Also, I understand the nature of the shark and can choose to stay away from it, and before you make an analogy to hell, it is completely different because I absolutely would NOT even want to torture a shark for all ETERNITY even if it was going to kill me or another - that is a bit extreme...

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by arpgme

 

why should god love an evil man who distorts his creations and defiles his gift of life and harms his neighbors?

Because otherwise he is a LIAR to his own claim in the bible. If you are the embodiment of love, not lovING but LOVE, then how can you NOT love someone for being who they are? That is a contradiction.

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by arpgme

 

do you love a shark about to bite your head off?

why should god love an evil man who distorts his creations and defiles his gift of life and harms his neighbors?

You might not love the shark, but you have to respect that this is the nature of the shark, and is a understandable act, since it is a carnivore. That does not give you any reason to hate and /or torture the shark - would you not agree?

Originally posted by subjectzero
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

This is not benevolence. God is selfish. He wants something from you.

I guess,,,

if you gave someone a gift,,, would there be any circumstance in which what they did with that gift would offend you? anger you?

have you ever had a pet who wouldnt listen to you? did this anger you? even though that pet is a free and individual being,,

im sure you will have no problem when man creates AI,,, allowing the AI to do whatever they please even if it means neglecting mans ideas and words and feelings?

Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by arpgme

 

i keep bringing up nature because nature is what we are and what we reside in and the only reason the concept of god has arisen and the only way we could potentially exist and the only way we may potentially know god..

Ok, but "nature" and "God" should not be operating the same way since "nature" never claimed to be love but "God" did claim it according to the bible.

(By the way, there is a difference from being Loving and being Love [the embodiment of love itself])

define love....

the bible is the interpretation of nature.... interpretations can be incorrect.,,.,.
you are arguing against mans beliefs.... not against god....

it is obvious this realm of universe is not complete love.,.,., complete love is the concept associated with the term heaven.,.,.,.

Originally posted by mc4denmark
Still, Christianity has a nasty habit of alienating non-believers and "some" Christians use hell and alike to threaten does who does not share the beliefs, and that is one thing I complete dislike.

I agree. While fear is a motivator for some, I personally find it pointless and rarely even bring up the subject. I believe that hell exists, but I think even God would say that to believe in him simply to avoid it is a pretty crappy reason to believe.

All so, there are many bloody stories in the bible and in the old testaments there are "rules" I simply can not share belief, such as ownership and possibility to sell ones daughter and slave laws.

There are two problems with this -- first, I'm not a fundamentalist, so I view the Hebrew Bible (the one that people take offense at, rare is the critic who picks on the New Testament) as a book that foreshadows Christ and the Second Covenant, as well as telling the history of Israel and their God, in the context of both real and imaged (or allegorical, if one is so inclined) stories.

Secondly, by dismissing the whole of the work, based on the 5 percent or so that one finds distasteful, one is on a par with a scientist who collects data, then dismisses all observations other than the five percent that agree with the conclusions he wishes to find. Even Dawkins would call such a scientist a charlatan (while he does the exact same thing, lol.)