A Loving God who throws folks in hell because they didn't want to be controlled by him?

Originally posted by adjensen
God doesn't throw you anywhere.

Hell was created for the demons, and is the only place in the non-material world where God is not present.

So, after a lifetime of not needing God, not loving God, not wanting to be in God's presence, you are granted exactly what you've insisted upon -- existence without God.

Where's the injustice in that?

edit on 8-11-2012 by adjensen because: (no reason given)

Well that depends, if god created that realm with pain and suffering then its not quite fair, or the other hand, if god have no place in that realm people probably live in harmony with each other, since no one is arguing how others should live there life, in that case, beam me down scotty

Regarding the Bible, it would help the Christian cause if the Church and all other Christian sects would cooperate with each other and come to a consensus on a proper interpretation of that book.

Metaphor is no longer an appropriate method of communicating with the masses. The Church must comb its library and release all documentation which aids in interpretation of biblical texts.

Originally posted by subjectzero
Regarding the Bible, it would help the Christian cause if the Church and all other Christian sects would cooperate with each other and come to a consensus on a proper interpretation of that book.

Metaphor is no longer an appropriate method of communicating with the masses. The Church must comb its library and release all documentation which aids in interpretation of biblical texts.

I disagree,, thats what they have been doing for thousands of years,, and all theyve been doing is distorting the original message and word more and more,, like a large game of telephone....

what you are asking for has been done hundreds of times and is the reason there are so many sects..

Originally posted by mc4denmark
Well that depends, if god created that realm with pain and suffering then its not quite fair, or the other hand, if god have no place in that realm people probably live in harmony with each other, since no one is arguing how others should live there life, in that case, beam me down scotty

So you'd like your cake and eat it too?

Life doesn't work that way, why should the afterlife?

If you think it all unfair, you are welcome to take it up with God when you meet him, but keep in mind that it is you that wants nothing to do with him, not the other way around.

reply to post by ImaFungi

The Church is sitting on original manuscripts. It needs to release these to a group of select scholars for proper translation and publication.

Originally posted by subjectzero
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

The Church is sitting on original manuscripts. It needs to release these to a group of select scholars for proper translation and publication.

ok i agree.... I get scary feelings while reading the new testament that it is a purposeful work of creative fiction..
also that the old testament is more about human politics then god....

you also know the church doesnt want the public to know the truth because that would be the end of the church...

I would volunteer to be a select scholar,, I can objectively read the bible and interpret most likely what is meant, and its literal accuracy to humans and the universe..

reply to post by lonewolf19792000

Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
Same old song and dance:

"God cannot be good, because he punishes the evil people, and a loving God would not punish people when they do wrong, but rather let them get away with being immoral".

Therefore God does not exist, because he has a sense of justice they do not like to hear about.

I didn't claim that there was not god just because there is justice.
I said, how can it be true that God IS LOVE itself as the bible claims in John, if God cannot even accept people as they are? If you can't accept people, you don't love THEM, you only love who you WANT them to be... So it doesn't make sense to call yourself "love" itself....


reply to post by zonetripper2065

Originally posted by zonetripper2065
reply to post by ZeroReady

 

You said exactly what I was feeling. thanks. People need to get over it believe or don't and keep it to yourself.

Why do I "need" to keep it to myself? I can give my perspective of how such a God is not really loving, just like they can try to justify that it is...

I'm not "forcing" anyone to do anything...

reply to post by Klassified

Originally posted by Klassified
Here's the deal. God created all that exists. In that creation, he only created two ultimate places for humans to go after their death. Eternal life, or Eternal damnation and separation from God.

So... you either live and do as God tells you, or you suffer the consequences. He created it, he owns it, and he runs it. Comply or die.

That's the Christian view in a nutshell, with all the niceties left out that make it more palatable.

"Comply or Die" , so it doesn't really matter that this God is making a false claim about himself because he runs everything? It's ok if that is your perspective. I am just bringing the AWARENESS of the the claim of "God" believing "Love" itself is a lie...

reply to post by ImaFungi

Originally posted by ImaFungi
reply to post by arpgme

 

think of heaven or hell as being experiences for a human on earth.....

are there natural laws on earth for a human?

ones where if a human were to break often, their life may become miserable? physically,mentally, and spiritually weak?

are these things that damage the human physically, mentally, and spiritually known as sins?

is it said that if a human sins they will bring themselves to hell?

i get it..

edit on 8-11-2012 by ImaFungi because: (no reason given)

The only difference is that nature hasn't claimed to be "Love" itself. So nature didn't lie, it just do what it does...

reply to post by JDmOKI

Originally posted by JDmOKI
reply to post by arpgme

 

free-will. God doesn't force anyone to do anything

Since there is free-will and god doesn't "force" anyone to do anything, that would also include hell (that he doesn't "force" them there and gives them free will).

reply to post by adjensen

Originally posted by adjensen
God doesn't throw you anywhere.

Hell was created for the demons, and is the only place in the non-material world where God is not present.

So, after a lifetime of not needing God, not loving God, not wanting to be in God's presence, you are granted exactly what you've insisted upon -- existence without God.

Where's the injustice in that?

edit on 8-11-2012 by adjensen because: (no reason given)

If hell is a place of burning in fire then it still isn't loving/accepting. Just because one chose to not be with the Christian God doesn't mean that they want to burn in fire.

Originally posted by subjectzero
reply to post by ImaFungi

 

The Church is sitting on original manuscripts. It needs to release these to a group of select scholars for proper translation and publication.

What original manuscripts? The original papers that the authors of the New Testament and Hebrew wrote on? Those are long since (like "1,950 years" since) lost -- what exists now are copies of copies of copies ... the originals. And they are available for people to translate.

Here you go, knock yourself out: Codex Sinaiticus

reply to post by ImaFungi

I believe you would have to know languages like Aramaic, Hebrew, Greek, Latin, and other ancient languages.

I have no idea what they've got down there but we all know it's a gold mine.

Honestly, I don't care if it destroys the Church. The truth is more important than an institution. It's time for "The Club" to come clean.

To clarify, I'm not anti-religion. I'm against being lied to and being treated badly by institutions for the benefit of a select few.

Originally posted by arpgme

Originally posted by adjensen
God doesn't throw you anywhere.

Hell was created for the demons, and is the only place in the non-material world where God is not present.

So, after a lifetime of not needing God, not loving God, not wanting to be in God's presence, you are granted exactly what you've insisted upon -- existence without God.

Where's the injustice in that?

edit on 8-11-2012 by adjensen because: (no reason given)

If hell is a place of burning in fire then it still isn't loving/accepting. Just because one chose to not be with the Christian God doesn't mean that they want to burn in fire.

Reread what I wrote there. God plays no part in it -- you make the decision, you take the consequences. If you believe that hell exists and don't want to burn in fire, then make a different decision. If you don't believe in hell, then what's the point of this thread?

reply to post by arpgme


your thread title equals....

a loving parent who punishes their kid/puts kid in time out ...... because the kid wanted to eat its poop, throw it at its parents and neighbors, and punch holes in the walls of the house

Back to the thread topic, I don't think God loves. If he did the Bible wouldn't be full of rape, murder and incest.

If this is a misunderstanding of the text then the Church could clear all this up with a proper translation for modern eyes.

How about it, Pope Benedict? You have the power to tell the truth. Do you have the courage?

reply to post by arpgme

"Comply or Die" , so it doesn't really matter that this God is making a false claim about himself because he runs everything? It's ok if that is your perspective. I am just bringing the AWARENESS of the the claim of "God" believing "Love" itself is a lie...

Not my perspective OP. That's the Christian perspective. I come closer to being in agreement with you than I do Christianity.

Sounds like God and Obama are the same person.

God = Dictator

Do what I say or I will shoot you or send you to the gulag.

reply to post by subjectzero


replace god with nature....

why dont you eat rocks?

why dont you not eat food and drink water?

why dont you cut your arms off?

why dont you jump off cliffs?

ohhhh you obey laws??

reply to post by subjectzero


basically you hope the universe is a free market economy controlled by a hidden hand

instead of there being a hierarchy that instilled order... because how can you be fully free if order exists.. for if there is an instiller of that order,, that means you are obeying another,, or following anothers command,, and that would make the a dictator and you not free....

too bad you have no say on whether a god created this universe or not,, and if one did,, what you mean to it.

reply to post by ImaFungi

We all do what makes sense. Sometimes God makes impossible demands on the human soul.

Temptation is a good example. We are all tired of being tested.

It's a game I don't care to play. God should stop allowing the Devil to toy with us, don't you think?

If God was benevolent he would put a stop to this madness and there would be no hell.

Originally posted by adjensen

Originally posted by mc4denmark
Well that depends, if god created that realm with pain and suffering then its not quite fair, or the other hand, if god have no place in that realm people probably live in harmony with each other, since no one is arguing how others should live there life, in that case, beam me down scotty

So you'd like your cake and eat it too?

Life doesn't work that way, why should the afterlife?

If you think it all unfair, you are welcome to take it up with God when you meet him, but keep in mind that it is you that wants nothing to do with him, not the other way around.

Life works as you want it to work, our problem is that we are forced to live under the rules of some people who likes to pretend they know what is best for others, you think the afterlife is like that to? there is not much divine in that.

Take it up with god? Hmm, I do not believe in a god, so that wont be a option. I would very much like to be free, both in life and in mind, and I wish the same for all around me, because what I see we got here on earth, is just a big jail created by dogmas, fear and hate of those different from one self. I dont believe that, I believe that anyone should be free, and have the insight to create room for all others, as long as their way of life wont abuse others.And I really dont see anywhere that Christianity teaches freedom and respect, the only phrase I heard is that Jesus tells one to turn the other cheek, sadly it seems to be a phrase that is not very used by "modern" Christians.

reply to post by ImaFungi

Fungi, I would like you to give me some examples that prove God is benevolent.