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Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by Prezbo369
God doesn't need to ask you to exist. He is giving you a choice, you forget, just because you don't want to bend to authority doesn't make the authority go away.
You can also just deny God's existence and hope you're right.
Jesus paid your dues. If you don't want anything to do with God or Jesus, then there is a place for that.
Originally posted by windword
Originally posted by milkyway12
Jesus paid your dues. If you don't want anything to do with God or Jesus, then there is a place for that.
You mean that we can go to hell if we don't want to be a member of the country club, who's dues Jesus pre-paid? Does membership expire?
Originally posted by fleabit
Well, since you can't seem to sort it out that way, turn it around.
Let's say that you live your life as you see fit, ignoring God, badmouthing him, trying to turn people away from him and saying that you want nothing to do with him. You die and, oopsies, it's exactly what Christians said it was going to be -- you're standing before God, ready to answer for your behaviour.
What do you expect him to do, and what's your rationalization for it?
What if you are a simple soul who is good-hearted - you help people, you donate time and food and money, you work hard during your life, but you are not a Christian. You don't really believe in God, but you certainly don't bad mouth him - you believe in live and let live. So as a good person, after death, you get eternally punished because you chose to not worship God?
You are assuming someone who doesn't worship someone is inherently a "bad" person who deserves an eternity of torment. If someone helps people their entire life, they are loved and they love others, they may have had a few sins along their life, nothing major... they seriously deserve an ETERNITY of pain and despair?
So basically you are saying there are only two choices after death. And one can only be gotten if you worship and praise the guy who has the key to the door. If you didn't properly worship him, you are cast into hell. Even if you were a good person. A loving person. A hard working person who actually cared for their human beings on the planet - they get punished horribly for ALL TIME? Hmm... that doesn't really seem quite right for some reason. There is no "choice." It's either you better worship God, or you get eternity in hell. No matter how good of a person you were.
Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by stupid girl
That is interesting...
But in that case how do you know that your perspective of god (or his word - whatever holy book) isn't flawed?
Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by NOTurTypical
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Originally posted by arpgme
How can you love someone if you can't even accept them for who they are, but instead want to change them? If that is the case you do not love THEM, you love who you WANT them to be.
If this is the case, how could a God claim to be love itself? That would be a lie, since the only love is when people are fulfilling HIS desire to be as HE wants them to be.
I don't quite follow your logic.. He does love us, He gives us the choice to love Him in return. The inverse of that gift is a percentage of people will refuse to love Him back. He gives you complete control over whether you want to follow Him and love Him in return.
Would you rather be a robot than a creature with a free will?edit on 8-11-2012 by NOTurTypical because: (no reason given)
So then, there should be no punishment for choosing not to, if he really love US. We are who we are, not who he wants us to be.
Originally posted by NOTurTypical
Again, not following your logic. Heaven is a place filled with people who love Him, praise and worship Him, and everything is about Him. It would NOT be loving to force people to be there for eternity who don't love Him or desire to do those things.
Originally posted by stupid girl
reply to post by fleabit
Only God can see a person's heart-- the essence of who someone truly is. No matter how much human beings tend to levy judgment against their brothers, it will always be a flawed perspective.
Who among us can say what someone who led a seemingly unsavory lifestyle (...albeit subject to each and every individual perspective of whatever that unsavoriness may entail, all of which will respectively differ and vary...) experiences at the moment of their passing from this world to the next? What choices they are given or revelations they experience?
The simple truth is, no human being alive on earth really knows. And even if there were a handful that did, the truth would simply get lost in the myriad of opinionated understandings professed by others on the matter.
Regardless, pontificating on the existence or purpose of hell serves more as a distraction from Truth than any sort of defining standard for it.
Originally posted by Wonders
Alright, so we see here that Jesus, the only begotten son of God, can indeed forgive sins and no hypocrite on earth can change that fact and no righteous person would dispute.
You said, "The simple truth is, no human being alive on earth really knows." You can ASK to know!
James 1:5 If any of you lacks wisdom, he should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to him.
Originally posted by milkyway12
reply to post by arpgme
Sin cannot exist in his presence. Only the blood of Christ will cover your sins. If you are not saved, you go to hell. Why? Because you were created to exist forever. Everything, except hell was created for his children. If you aren't saved by Christ, then you support satan, evil, and reject Yahweh. So you go to the only place where you could possibly exist. Hell, the place you chose.
Originally posted by Itisnowagain
reply to post by Philippines
Christ is this moment of presence and if you come to this moment and forget all other time you will enter the kingdom.
Humans can't see this moment because they are scared of the past and scared of the future - they live in continual fear and desire. They can't see that everything is complete right now - they search to complete themselves because they feel that there is something missing.
Christ (consciousness) is where the light is shining, the illumination, this moment of presence.