A Loving God who throws folks in hell because they didn't want to be controlled by him?

Originally posted by ImaFungiyou are not owed anything ..... why do you think you deserve a minute of life?

I didn't ask anyone if I could be born, but here I am nonetheless....

if god made the universe he allowed what you are to experience even a second of existence... this is a gift,,, you can respect the creator,,, or feel free to leave at anytime... whats the big deal?

So its pay your dues, kill yourself or have Jesus the intergalactic space ghost mob boss torture me for eternity? hmmm

you just seem sour at the fact that you are not the ultimate creator of the universe and just some bodies pinochio,,, i know its hard to envision and understand so it may be easier for you to continue not thinking about it...

Is that how you see yourself? a play-thing for your 'god'?

A capricious overbearing father figure that created everything, controls everything, explains everything and completely removes the need for anyone to learn anything or think for themselves?

how the can there be a jealous god if god is everything. How can you be jealous of yourself? Unless of course there were in fact other gods to be jealous of. In which case that debunks the entire creation myth and calls into question the veracity of everything stated. Which in turn makes the point moot as we conclude that the jealous god wasnt god to begin with but an imposter of considerable power masquerading as the alpha and omega.

*Slaps himself on the forehead*

What the hell am I doing using logic on religious zealots???On second thoughts why am I even bothering.

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
*Slaps himself on the forehead*

What the hell am I doing using logic on religious zealots???On second thoughts why am I even bothering.

No sport.......

Originally posted by newcovenant

Originally posted by mellisamouse
there is no such thing as hell, it is a bunch of bull added as one of the many manipulations of the catholic church.

The original hebrew is sooooo so different from modern bible translations it is sad.

Transliteration exposes religion as a sham against God and man..... the biggest lie of all.

True, true but I am really starring you for your avatar.

Cool and but seriously I do agree with random translations there is a huge room for error or worse deliberate hijacking and manipulation. Something fairly amazing and rather unclear happened. That's all I know. People have passed from generation to generation these tales, very different but with many common threads.

Take from that what you will which is what we all try to do.

An all seeing God is not that far fetched to me. Right now we can spy on anyone and hear their conversations from remote locations. This might be an organism like connection, like the bees might know their queen. We all just make the best of what we know and think and believe altogether into a world view and a philosophy. For some people their religion is their philosophy - already written out for them.

It is allknowing since it is connected to everything. And now it is time to get the tinhats because I am gonna tell you something that you might not like . Inside your brain is the pineal gland that is a twoway transiver of information if in understand correctly that is using chemicals to make you experiance things. My mom could when I was younger make me come home just by thinking it was time to come home but she cannot do it anymore. She was manipulating/using synchronicity to make things happen and that is the same thing god uses (gods mysterious ways). When the studend is ready the teacher comes.

Originally posted by TiM3LoRd
*Slaps himself on the forehead*

What the hell am I doing using logic on religious zealots???On second thoughts why am I even bothering.

io9.com...
All the world's major religions, with their emphasis on love, compassion, patience, tolerance, and forgiveness can and do promote inner values. But the reality of the world today is that grounding ethics in religion is no longer adequate. This is why I am increasingly convinced that the time has come to find a way of thinking about spirituality and ethics beyond religion altogether.

Originally posted by arpgme
How can you love someone if you can't even accept them for who they are, but instead want to change them? If that is the case you do not love THEM, you love who you WANT them to be.

If this is the case, how could a God claim to be love itself? That would be a lie, since the only love is when people are fulfilling HIS desire to be as HE wants them to be.

Interesting twist on an old question. My short answer? I'm not perfect. You're not perfect. Nobody's perfect: I have to love them for who they are because it would be kinda hypocritical not to, right? How can I expect you to love me for who I am if I don't show you grace in your faults?

Now, if we're talking about the Judeo-Christian God, He is perfect, right? And can perfect good tolerate evil? Can imperfection and perfection be reconciled? Can we expect God to accept sinful man? I think not. And yet He shows us grace anyway.
Now, you ask why God would want to change us? Well, if you love someone--truly love them--wouldn't you want the best for them? And tell them what was best for them, even when it was painful? And wouldn't you expect an omniscient God to know what was best for you? And if He loves you, wouldn't His desire be what was best for you?

Just some food for thought.

reply to post by StalkerSolent


How can a perfect god create something that is imperfect? How can a perfect god not be able to reconcile his own creation? How can a perfect god loose his temper and then regret it? How come a perfect god has enemies, so much so that 1/3 of his heavenly population rebelled against him?

I agree with the above poster, that this Judeo Christian God is a impostor, masquerading as the "Alpha and the Omega."

reply to post by windword


I agree with you totally, its the first part of what prompted me to write my own thread called god is a space alien and not our real creator.

Well, since you can't seem to sort it out that way, turn it around.

Let's say that you live your life as you see fit, ignoring God, badmouthing him, trying to turn people away from him and saying that you want nothing to do with him. You die and, oopsies, it's exactly what Christians said it was going to be -- you're standing before God, ready to answer for your behaviour.

What do you expect him to do, and what's your rationalization for it?

What if you are a simple soul who is good-hearted - you help people, you donate time and food and money, you work hard during your life, but you are not a Christian. You don't really believe in God, but you certainly don't bad mouth him - you believe in live and let live. So as a good person, after death, you get eternally punished because you chose to not worship God?

You are assuming someone who doesn't worship someone is inherently a "bad" person who deserves an eternity of torment. If someone helps people their entire life, they are loved and they love others, they may have had a few sins along their life, nothing major... they seriously deserve an ETERNITY of pain and despair?

So basically you are saying there are only two choices after death. And one can only be gotten if you worship and praise the guy who has the key to the door. If you didn't properly worship him, you are cast into hell. Even if you were a good person. A loving person. A hard working person who actually cared for their human beings on the planet - they get punished horribly for ALL TIME? Hmm... that doesn't really seem quite right for some reason. There is no "choice." It's either you better worship God, or you get eternity in hell. No matter how good of a person you were.

reply to post by windword


What I disagree with is lumping Judeo and Christian together, though the elites have attempted to make a trap out of Christianity as well, they fail to realize something bigger than their middle manager law wolf group is here, and we declare all their contracts null and void, for what the grass roots common people see, feel and believe, if they are choosing with Love is paramount. The greatest is the least. And the only Laws are the Virtues, which amounts to LOVE, Compassion, Walking in Others Shoes, Lending a Helping Hand, etc. In fact, they should read Isaiah 28 and understand he is talking to the elites from the first sentence to the very last one, doesnt change course and suddenly direct the last part to the students here, its all about how they've been misled, they didn't meet with angels, but with the dead. That all their contracts are null and void, and that their hidden lairs (dumbs perhaps?) will be filled with water. And it mentions such things as, a rule of law and overburdening people. It goes on to talk about the proper role of someone who would appropriate to themselves the role of "board of director of the school".

They, not the people, (it remains from the start to the end, directed to the very same group), THEY ARE ASKED, how many times do you plough a field to get off a crop?

(In other words, this little ponzy scheme they have going with the wolves/demons/dracos, to sell out humanity, and working actively to FAIL the students and hand them over, time and time again, so it takes many attempts to pass earth school IS ALL WRONG AND CRIMINAL BY THE REAL LAWS)

Then it talks about the real role of a leader, to serve the people, to demonstrate virtues, to show the way.

I just adore Isaiah 28.

However, the Judaic God that Smites and Christ and His Father are not the same!

Christ actually points out to them, Who Their Daddy Is. They try to kill him for it. He tells them their father is the devil.

It kind of reminded me of the movie, Master Of Disguise, and being asked over and over, Who's You're Daddy!!!! Slap! Slap! Slap! Does he slap you silly! Would Love ever do such a thing?

This is called critical thinking and staying in the heart.

The concept of a god demanding you follow a certain religion to be saved is not Love, its the master of disguise thing. SLAP! SLAP! SLAP!

reply to post by Unity_99


I agree that the God of Jesus, his father figure is not the same entity that calls himself god in the Old Testament.

The Song of Moses: Deuteronomy 32:

7 Remember the days of old;
consider the years of many generations;
ask your father, and he will show you,
your elders, and they will tell you.

8 When the Most High gave to the nations their inheritance,
when he divided mankind,
he fixed the borders of the peoples
according to the number of the sons of God.
9 But the LORD's portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted heritage.

In this case, the word LORD translates YHVH, or Yahweh. His portion of the divided earth is the people of Jacob. He has no other authority over the populations assigned by the "Most High" to other sons of God.

It is my believe that YHVH screwed the pooch so badly that he was disbarred from his position. Perhaps Jesus was his replacement, or he was the replacement for all the sons of God.

But whoever is the Most High, I would guess that to be the father God that Jesus spoke of.

I believe that the "Most High" handed out a mandate to these sons of God, and that it can be found in the book of Psalms, Chapter 82.

Psalms 82
1 God standeth in the congregation of the mighty;
he judgeth among the gods.
2 How long will ye judge unjustly,
and accept the persons of the wicked?


3 Defend the poor and fatherless:
do justice to the afflicted and needy.
4 Deliver the poor and needy:
rid them out of the hand of the wicked.
5 They know not, neither will they understand;
they walk on in darkness:
all the foundations of the earth are out of course.
6 I have said, Ye are gods;
and all of you are children of the Most High.

What happens to the sons of God who don't follow the mandate?

7 But ye shall die like Adam,
and fall like the princes.

Only an immortal being would be threatened with death, as we mortals already know that we will die.

Originally posted by Prezbo369

Originally posted by ImaFungiyou are not owed anything ..... why do you think you deserve a minute of life?

I didn't ask anyone if I could be born, but here I am nonetheless....

if god made the universe he allowed what you are to experience even a second of existence... this is a gift,,, you can respect the creator,,, or feel free to leave at anytime... whats the big deal?

So its pay your dues, kill yourself or have Jesus the intergalactic space ghost mob boss torture me for eternity? hmmm

you just seem sour at the fact that you are not the ultimate creator of the universe and just some bodies pinochio,,, i know its hard to envision and understand so it may be easier for you to continue not thinking about it...

Is that how you see yourself? a play-thing for your 'god'?

A capricious overbearing father figure that created everything, controls everything, explains everything and completely removes the need for anyone to learn anything or think for themselves?

all i meant by pinochio was.,.,,. inanimate matter given life,..,.,., ( ya know,,, pinochio,, wooden toy,, given the gift of life....)

God created the universe,,, it hardly seems he intervenes,,, so yea,,, its just an epic science experiment,,, whatever happens shall happen,,, but i think there are such things as for better and for worse,,, especially relative to the beings in the creation,.,.. and they could figure out how to live better with on another,.,. with the simple thought that they are all created from the same source.,.,. and if you look as the creator of creation as a father,,, then all humans are brethren.,.,. that existence as a human ... isnt that bad,, its actually really cool,, especially all the things man can accomplish,,,

no jesus,,,, pay your dues ( whatever that means),,, or kill yourself yes,,,,, but only kill yourself if you really cant wait till the end,, because death is gureented,,,, so its a frebie.,,.,. you are simply shown how much goes into caring for a self,. you have to do your life all by yourself.,., build your body day by day nutrient by nutrient,,, there has been an unbroken chain of success and reproduction by your ancestors, mine, and anyone alive today,,, hundreds of thousands of years of struggle to experience the fruits and brighter sides of existing on this planet,, and struggle through the darker ones to persevere,, i cant speak for you,, but i know i have it easier then most likely all my ancestors had it ,,, so i really cant complain.,.,.

Something inside me is nudging very strongly to point out, that while I believe in Mercy, Forgiveness, that Love Heals, that the Cosmos has sent in its counselors and that the Higher Ups and Biggest Universal Counselors who wish to spare all here who are operating as dark hats and doing insane psychotic sacrifices and murders and enslaving people, along with their trauma victims who are wounded and harming others through crossing their breaking points, so in other words, we don't want people to line up for hell and regression/reduction of soul, and torture. We want people to be healed and retrained. I don't believe in the game here, its a crime against Love and cannot stand.

However despite all that I believe, and have even been shown, not a renegade, and am a part of Family and Teamwork, or hope to be in that Team, however this can be put. So some mysteries of what is to come, are placed in the hands of God/Goodness/Love.

By saying, its not what religion you are in, this is not endorsing harm as a legitimate way back home and saying that the most insane torture of others is forgiven and there are no consequences.

Your own souls will not let you off the hook for consequence even if Family above And God would simply forgive.

Your own souls are very strict taskmasters and want you to be Love and of their frequency and are horrified by the harmful things we do.

Please think deeply, choose Love. Knock on your heart and soul each day, in meditation, in prayer, while doing dishes or connected to water, baths/showers, while doing mundane things, before sleep and ask questions: Why am I here? I'm so sorry for the programs running in me, please forgive me and help me detox from everything including all programs and regain a heart of Love. I want to help others. Direct me in the right paths.

Look critically at your lives and relationships with others and step back and stop controlling but strive to simply assist those in your life, not harm or be angry. Try to pull back in the heart and acknowledge failings and the traps the darkside bring in, that cause flare ups, from computer mishaps to fights.

Forgive all.

Examine your ISMS, beliefs in religions and poltiics and do what you can to help those around you, with prayer or tangible things, depending on circumstances.

reply to post by Cuervo


If there is a god.He is the most vile,evil sob to ever inhabit the universe.His will is death ,pain and suffering that he allows.

i think its not about controlling its about discipline,
teaching people moral and discipline the rest of most religion is just a perversion version of something that aint religion anymore

i for myself belive in god, but im not a christ,jew or muslim

reply to post by rockymcgilicutty


I believe it is not the will of god that we suffer, it is his will that we be free and as such we are free to choose suffering. If you pick up a knife and stab yourself in the back will you blame god for the pain? While I believe it to be a poor choice you are certainly free to stab yourself in the back.

God gave us freedom, we turned our back on him when we denied freedom and this was our own doing, not his.

reply to post by Symbiot

God gave us freedom, we turned our back on him when we denied freedom and this was our own doing, not his.

Can you elaborate? What freedom did God give us that we denied?

reply to post by windword


We are free to do anything that the laws of physics allow. It is not god who would deny you the freedom to be late to work, but your boss who is not god. It is not god who would deny you the freedom to build a house on an empty plot of land, but your government who is not god.

Edit: Our governments are liars. Those who would claim government of the land I occupy claim that driving is a privilege granted by them, but this is not true, it is the laws of physics that grant me the freedom to drive a car, not the government. The government claims that they grant me the freedom to speak my mind, but this is not true it is the laws of physics that grant me this freedom.

All of the freedoms the government claims to grant are actually freedoms you already had and they falsely claimed responsibility for. The government claims to own god's work. The government claims to be god, but they are not and will only lead you to suffering. Liars.

Human beings are not sent to hell, but they are allowed to become their own hell of rebellion.

I am thankful that I have been given the opportunity of consciousness. I have the strength of character to be humbled by the notion of something far greater than human beings can even comprehend. And in that humbleness, I perpetually concede the right of authority over creation to the One Whom created it in the first place.

How can we as human beings understand the scope and purpose of Infinite Wisdom from our perspective here on earth when we don't even know the exact size of the Universe, nor all of what it contains? That seems preposterous and absurd.
Much like telling the Something that desired your companionship enough to create you in the first place to F- off: "Thanks for awareness, now GTFO of my way so I can start to destroy all of this for you through my ignorance and imperfection."

His creation, His rules. Those that don't have the mental, moral and spiritual nature to exist within those boundaries will choose not to, whether through indignance or rebellion or otherwise. You either trust that God is good and wants good for you and has only good things in store for you, or you don't.

I had my children because I wanted them. I love them because they are a reflection of me and the one human being I loved enough to commit to sharing the rest of my life with. They are unwise to the ways of this world that we live in, and there are many things in life that they may encounter that they are not yet mature enough to possibly comprehend. Thus, even though I only want good things for them my endeavor to teach them and protect them, they sometimes perceive as malicious and unfair. They cannot see the bigger picture from their perspective, and even if I tried to explain it to them, they do not yet possess the ability to understand nor appreciate it.