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A Loving God who throws folks in hell because they didn't want to be controlled by him?

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posted on Nov, 8 2012 @ 11:35 PM
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reply to post by nownow
 



Originally posted by nownow
reply to post by arpgme
 


God is God. If he says he is love itself, it must be. Who are we to argue?
It is like a child arguing with his father who has spanked him and now says he loves child. The child is going to want to argue how can the father who has spanked me love me. Now the father says he is love itself. If this ain't love, boy, I don't know what is. That would be perfectly acceptable thinking by the father it seems to me. Now taken further, if the father is God, who are you and why are you wasting your time griping about it....? Clinton says depends on what your definition of is is. Spin on that. Clinton is the real definition of love. He is love itself...with a cigar.


If a father claims to be "love" then he is lying. How can he be love itself when he can experience, anger, hatred, sadness, frustration, etc?

Love loves. Now if you are a BEING who is lovING, now it makes sense that your emotions can change, but love loves.

And that "spanking" that God is giving is eternal. So how is that even a punishment? A punishment you learn from to behave better, but what is the point of the punishment if it is eternal? That doesn't make sense.




posted on Nov, 8 2012 @ 11:37 PM
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reply to post by ArtOfTrance
 


Light has a DARK trait of aggression/controlling/manipulating....

and Darkness has the BRIGHT trait of ACCEPTANCE.

How ironic , how they fuse into each other....



posted on Nov, 8 2012 @ 11:38 PM
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Some of these replies by Christians don't even follow through. Comparing denying a God & "accepting his gift" to literal, physical acts based in reality is absurd. Realistically, people don't take well to the notion that they should be tortured eternally just because they didn't believe in an ancient dogma. God should have taken that into consideration before he created an eternal hell; oh wait, he did take that into consideration (he's omni-everything). Therefore he created hell with foreknowledge of EVERYTHING. Which would make him a playful sadist.

The greatest gift God could give would be not allowing a place of eternal torture to exist in the first place. The entire dogma derives from words, from a book, written by men, thousands of years ago, based largely on hearsay and altered by religious elitist throughout history. The Christian logic is that people are accepting hell by denying ONE particular religion that doesn't fit with their mind-state. Then asserting that all these other mind-states are the inspiration of Satan. Many other religions follow this same method of converting & keeping believers.



posted on Nov, 8 2012 @ 11:51 PM
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Originally posted by nownow
reply to post by arpgme
 


God is God. If he says he is love itself, it must be. Who are we to argue?
It is like a child arguing with his father who has spanked him and now says he loves child. The child is going to want to argue how can the father who has spanked me love me. Now the father says he is love itself. If this ain't love, boy, I don't know what is. That would be perfectly acceptable thinking by the father it seems to me. Now taken further, if the father is God, who are you and why are you wasting your time griping about it....? Clinton says depends on what your definition of is is. Spin on that. Clinton is the real definition of love. He is love itself...with a cigar.


Two points I want to make against this post.

One, you're comparing a physical, biological father to a spiritual 'father' --- who is not perceived in any instance other than subjectively, mentally, & through the actions of fallible people. His existence entirely rest upon whether or not you have enough faith.

Secondly, let's just take what you said literally. So we can compare the God who loves his humans, to the biological father who loves his son. Tell me, if your son disobeyed you, disbelieved you, rebelled against you, or decided to leave your home; would you then proceed to sentence your son by sprinkling magic dust on him and throwing him into a brick oven for trillions of years? Clearly God doesn't have to answer to anyone, but if he did, even in the eyes of us sinful mortals; a father who would be willing to do such a thing is so far from loving, it's nearly impossible to even conceive of. Our brains can't comprehend the idea of eternal punishment in return for temporary decisions.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 12:02 AM
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Originally posted by subjectzero
reply to post by ImaFungi
 

I don't know. I'm not God, am I.
.


Actually, yes you are.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 02:02 AM
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God does not send you to hell for anything to do with control! Organised religion on the other hand well you cant have control without some form of fiery pit eh?



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 02:42 AM
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I dont normally reply to these threads because they are nothing more than just pathetic attempts to create an argument between those who have faith and those who dont.

In this case Ill make an execption.

Nobody knows for sure if there is a God let alone a hell, but I would imagine it goes something like this.

As a Christian I firmly believe in God, I would imagine that God would have no problem letting a person into heaven who didnt beleive in him providing they had a good soul and didnt spend their time of Earth commiting evil acts.

We all have a consense, we all know right from wrong. If we chose to lead a wrong bad life then you will be punished in the afterlife. If you lead a good strong life regardless of faith or not then you will be rewarded in the afterlife.

For example, A pedophile priest will not enter heaven, A person who has no faith but helps others will.

Its all about the final judgement, a test of Good V Evil.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 03:02 AM
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This has to be the most ignorant excuse for rejecting God I've read in ages.

I could give you heaps of simple everyday human examples to prove you just as angry and rebellious but I think they'd be beyond your understanding frankly.

It's not an attack on you personally, it's a "someone has to shake you out of your ignorance' situation.

Go away, have a think, and come back again.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 03:05 AM
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Originally posted by Scouser640

Originally posted by subjectzero
reply to post by ImaFungi
 

I don't know. I'm not God, am I.
.


Actually, yes you are.


Ah, finally someone who understands what the Bible means when it calls us 'sons' of God. A cat gives birth to cats, a horse to horses, therefore a son of God is a god... or godlike. Pity most Christians never get past being struggling human being with a spirit instead of a spirit being having a human experience.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 03:21 AM
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Originally posted by subjectzero
reply to post by r2d246
 

And then you've got the guy who read the rules, wore the tux, swore the oath and didn't make it into the lifeboat.

Because he had no legs.

God is great, eh?


Then if he's got no legs they throw him in the water and use him as shake bait



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 03:23 AM
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Originally posted by AdamsMurmur

If we were created in his image and likeness, I'd stay far away from him if I were you!
I don't think there's much history of war before biblical times (like pre-3000 BCE), in fact the warring seems to have really started around those times... There are way more people against destroying the planet than there are that actually want to destroy it, otherwise it would be all gone by now and us with it. Boobs are a gift. Menstruation, putting it lightly, is just another quirk of nature, and it's still ongoing because it serves a purpose; you don't blame a flower for being blue, because that's just how it is. Everywhere I look I see an ecstatic theatre, one that can elate me to great happiness just as much as it can send me spiralling downward into sorrow, and everything in between.

You see? It's all subjective.



I'm not talking about the choices we make, or even how each of us views the world. No matter what we do, we destroy. Living in a house is good, right? We build a house by first cutting down the trees and tearing up the land. Transportation is good, but we need to rip Mother Nature apart to pave those roads. Nuclear plants generate much needed electricity, then we bury the spent radioactive rods in the ground and render that ground useless and dangerous for 100,000 years.

So, it isn't subjective at all. We all need to eat, so we will empty the oceans of all its fish, and drive animals into extinction because they taste so darn good!

We are destroyers.
edit on 11/9/2012 by jiggerj because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 03:31 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by r2d246
 



Originally posted by r2d246
reply to post by arpgme
 


You pose the title like that. And I've heard that a gazillion times. Or the other way of saying it is you choose hell because you choose not to have your sins removed which you need to have in order to enter heaven.

Here's on analogy. There's fine resturant you've been invited too. The invite says you have to come wearing formal clothing to enter. If you don't then you won't be allowed in. But maybe were you're from it's more relaxed rules so you think you'll chance it. Then at the door you're not allowed in. Who's fault is it? Yours obviously. You knew full well in advanced they required formal attire to get in, but you choose to ignore it.


But is the restaurant threatening my life with eternal torture for not making it inside? No.



Originally posted by r2d246
reply to post by arpgme
 


Or maybe one more.... A ship your on is sinking and you're in shark infested waters. You've been told that the captain has personally saved a seat in the lifeboat for you...



It's not the same at all. Imagine if the captain created the ocean and the sharks and he KNEW in advance that the ship would sink. He also designed the life boat knowing full well that most would not be able to operate it. Now THAT is more similar to this god situation...


How can you a mier mortal man tell God that you don't like he's rules. We're only men, a creation. Does the pot tell the potter why is your work shop like this? or why did you design me like this? You can't, tell someone more powerful than you and who wrote the rule book how it should be written. Hell was designed not for man but for Satan. But the rules are that if you're not planning right now to bow down and worship and accept Jesus and join the good side, then you're automatically with the bad by default. There's no inbetween or other options. That's the rules. Besides once you get your pride and ego in check you're a better person, a better human being, that's no longer brainwashed. You woke up to TPTB, or are waking up as you're in this forum. But you better wake up to the more important reality of where the universe came from and who runs it and what the rules are for eternal life and where you'll spend it. He's a loving God, why not get to know him. He'll be your friend and help you threw life if you let him.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 03:34 AM
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reply to post by arpgme
 


Like a child, you love them, but you still make them sit on the naughty step when they do something out of line.

Maybe this is hell and we're still being naughty?



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 04:14 AM
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Since you obviously hate God, why would you want to spend an eternity surrounded by him and his followers? You wouldn't. He is so nice that he created a place void of him and his attributes. Unfortunately for those that choose to be seperated from God, God is love, joy, peace, beauty, comfort etc. Which means the place you will be spending eternity is completely void of all of those things.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 04:17 AM
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OP, a quick response about your statement that people can't even comprehend eternal punishment for a temporary decision. There is the death penalty that men impose on others for a temporary decision. That said, I think I was probably 10 years old before I realized I would be put to death under Old Testament Bible law. So I do understand the shock and awe effect of the law. Hell forever.
I am not a biblical scholar or for that matter, a church going man. I do get very overwhelmed by the religion, but I still try to understand. Nothing like realizing your hellfire fate to get your attention. That is why I still put my hope in Jesus. What else can I do, but appeal to that personality of God called Jesus (As I mentioned, I try to see the Trinity as a whole with multiple personalities, or differing views. I "humanize" God in order to understand him.
My comment about the Father saying he is love is just to meant to express that if he isn't love then what is?
He gave us this whole world and everything in it. Maybe it's temporary, but that is at least as good as what men and their governments give. Unpaid taxes lead to eviction.
I hope that that Jesus personality gives me a break. What more can I do? All unrepentant sinners are thrown into the lake of fire for eternity, they say. But in the Bible it says that the lake of fire itself will eventually be no more. At least I think that's what it says. Myself I cannot comprehend a "brain freeze" much less a hell for eternity. A temporary decision (drinking a frozen drink too fast) leads to a temporary hell called brain freeze. It's very bad and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. Still at least once a year probably I backslide and have to repent (rethink) my actions. People are stupid. I am just curious why I am not praying about Fukushima Nuclear hell every day 24/7 . They just had 7 more quakes? are you kidding me? Wow. I better watch the movie, "Children of Chernobyl" again and see if that makes me pray. Seriously like the Bible says we are a proud and stiff necked people.
edit on 9-11-2012 by nownow because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 05:19 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme
How can you love someone if you can't even accept them for who they are, but instead want to change them? If that is the case you do not love THEM, you love who you WANT them to be.

If this is the case, how could a God claim to be love itself? That would be a lie, since the only love is when people are fulfilling HIS desire to be as HE wants them to be.



Been there done that.

Tell us a new story will ya?



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 06:49 AM
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Originally posted by subjectzero
reply to post by arpgme
 

I completely understand where you are coming from here.

God's love is conditional, which has always bothered me.


God's love is conditional, it really is. But is that such a bad thing? I DON'T THINK SO. Call me bad, call me evil, but don't tell me you love me because that would be a lie, because OUR LOVE IS CONDITIONAL TOO!!!

"Ohh I can't love God I refuse to even believe in him, under what condition? His love has conditions and that bothers me!"



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 07:51 AM
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Originally posted by lonewolf19792000
reply to post by mc4denmark
 





the only phrase I heard is that Jesus tells one to turn the other cheek, sadly it seems to be a phrase that is not very used by "modern" Christians.


Cool so a guy who only "heard" one verse thinks he knows it all. Context man, "turn the other cheek" is Jesus speaking about people persecuting his believers for their faith in him. Doesn't mean we cannot walk away from fools who are just out to be asshats because it makes them feel good. I can turn the other cheek, and turn my back at the same time and walk away. He never said we had to be gluttons for punishment.


Wow, just wow.

You really should try to be a bit less aggressive in your way of expressing your self. That is exactly the thing I am talking about when I mention that the Christians dont turn the other cheek. Many of the Christians I meet turn to be aggressive and not very pleasant people when someone is talking about their religion. its sad to see how those who claims to have the way of the light and love so easily turn to hatred and condensation.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 08:09 AM
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You really should try to be a bit less aggressive in your way of expressing your self. That is exactly the thing I am talking about when I mention that the Christians dont turn the other cheek. Many of the Christians I meet turn to be aggressive and not very pleasant people


I think all of this, the anger, the aggression, the hate, all stems from having their genitalia mutilated at a young age, leading to a lifetime of regret.

Intergalactic dictators and eternal punishment for finite crimes must surely be a breeze after having such a 'procedure'.
edit on 9-11-2012 by Prezbo369 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 08:09 AM
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Originally posted by arpgme
reply to post by adjensen
 



Originally posted by adjensen
Well, if that's what you really believe, and that's the price that you're willing to pay, I sincerely hope that you do more with your life than posting whinging threads on ATS that convince no one of anything.

Sincerely.


"I do more with my life" as if I sit here 24 hours a day complaining about stuff. And you say "convince no one of anything". How would you know?


Because the questions that you ask are pretty much what an 8th grade Confirmation student would ask their pastor, and, as you have seen, there are reasonable responses to them. You don't agree with the responses, which is fine, but an undecided critical thinker is going to have both sides presented to them, and they're likely to come down on the side that they already tend towards.

As for your particular "contribution", let's see if you're the first to make such an inquiry:

Why would God send someone to hell?

Lookee there, 27 million results. Thanks for adding to the pile.




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