Obama supports UN global gun ban less than 24 hours after reelection

reply to post by kerazeesicko


Yes,I do get my panties in a bunch when you even breathe the
words gun control.
Have you ever heard of the cities that have been under the control
of gangsters? The mob controlled chicago and many other cities
for years.I know that is not the same as having control of a country,
but it is close.

reply to post by kerazeesicko


These "experts" agree that gun control works:
Stalin,Pol Pot,Hitler,Mao Tse Tung,Kim Jong Il,Castro,Qaddafi...

reply to post by TKDRL


Well I Suppose that was a little strong . For a gun prohibited city they seem to have a lot of gun crime . Down in Jacksonville there was a carjacking . The police came and confronted the assailant and two cops fired 42 shots . The mother and baby were both shot . The assailant then unhurt stood up to surrender and was killed .
Good shot boys !
Yes there are proficient policemen but this new just pick up the pieces , write the report and go home policy does not bode well for the average citizen . They stand behind their car wait for the killer to finish his work and when there is no more gunfire fill out the paperwork .It would almost seem like the first order of business at a standoff is to order the doughnuts and coffee .

reply to post by mamabeth


There exist a movement to disarm the public and it is a global movement by the Globalist .Also there are local Agenda 21 people called ICLEI that are hard at work PRIVATIZING , fire and rescue , building inspectors and Police departments . You can look up ICLEI organizations in your city hard at work to privatize government jobs although some cities have disassociated themselves with ICLEI .
The Anti Gun agenda is a precursor to the One World Government which supports Agenda 21 the UN guide lines for the future world of their version of Socialism more like Totalitarianism .

reply to post by eLPresidente

Actually, after Australia had their gun ban, crime and murders increased.

That is false. Completely. 100% untrue. Total bullshyte in fact.

For those who came in late, between 1984 and 1996 several multiple mass shootings took place, culminating in the "Port Arthur Massacre" in 1996 where 35 people were killed and 21 wounded. The Government (easily the most Conservative in Australian history by the way) said enough was enough and instigated a gun buy back scheme and a ban on all semi-automatic rifles and all semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns, and a tightly restrictive system of licensing and ownership controls. People can still own guns, just not the banned ones, and somewhere between 5% and 6% of Australians do.

In 1997–1999, more than 80% of the handguns confiscated were never legally purchased or registered in Australia. According to the Australian Bureau of Statistics, from 1985–2000, 78% of firearm deaths in Australia were suicides, and firearm suicides have fallen from about 22% of all suicides in 1992 to 7% of all suicides in 2005. Immediately following the Buyback there was a fall in firearm suicides which was more than offset by a 10% increase in total suicides in 1997 and 1998. There were concerted efforts in suicide prevention from this time and in subsequent years the total suicide rate resumed its decline. (Detail in this paragraph from Wikipedia).

I suspect your error comes from the NRA. The NRA published a FICTIONAL report in 2000 that claimed that "that violent crimes had increased in Australia since the introduction of new laws, based on highly unrepresentative statistics from newspaper articles". The federal Attorney General Daryl Williams accused the NRA of falsifying government statistics and urged the NRA to "remove any reference to Australia" from its website.

There is no evidence what-so-ever that violent crime has increased since the gun ban. There is also no evidence that violent crime has decreased. People are using different weapons however: knives, clubs, even rocks. The absolute numbers of the violent incidents are staying relatively level, however the Australian population has increased by about a third since the ban, so violent crime by population is declining.

There is no doubt that suicide by gun has decreased by more than 20%. However people are finding other ways to kill themselves at much too high a rate. New South Wales Police statistics show a significant drop in crimes with guns involved (murder, assault, robbery, etc).

But frankly, the gun restrictions were not really aimed at those kind of crimes anyway. Look at what weapons were banned: semi-automatic rifles and semi-automatic and pump-action shotguns. These bans were clearly designed to limit the possibilities for mass murder sprees like Port Arthur. And they have been 100% effective.

There have been NO mass attacks since the ban was put in place. ZERO. NADA. NIL. Compare that to the 10 years immediately before the ban when there were at least 5 separate incidents and almost 100 people murdered and a similar number wounded.

reply to post by eLPresidente

Who here justifies Obama's support of the UN global gun ban?

I dispute, in the strongest possible way, your characterization of the issue as "Obama's support of the UN global gun ban".

FIRST, and to repeat for the nth time: it is NOT a "UN Global gun ban". It is a "UN International Gun Trafficking Treaty". It does not ban guns, except in international cargos. It most certainly does not ban private ownership of guns in any country on earth, let alone the U.S.

SECOND, there is NO evidence that Obama supports this treaty, at least in its present form. The U.S. continues to block its adoption while more changes are worked out that will, no doubt, be to the advantage of the U.S. arms manufacturers.

The arms export business just makes way too much money for the any US Administration to roll over on. That is one dangerous lobby group to cross, if you get my drift. They just aren't going to sit still for their business to be handed over to the Ukrainians (already the largest arms dealers on the planet).

Originally posted by eLPresidente

Originally posted by eLPresidente
I will settle this debate right now with any of the anti-gun members in here.

How do you morally justify stripping a human being (against his/her will) from his/her last line of defense against tyranny?

I see there were no opposers to this settlement.

Good, at least we know ATS members know moral standing when they see one.



I'd also like to see if any of the opposers of gun rights think the UN has any right whatsoever of disregarding our national sovereignty and stripping us of our HUMAN RIGHT TO SELF-DEFENSE.

Do you indeed support the new world order? that is what the UN is right? a world government trying to blur the lines between global and national sovereignty?

Interesting...isn't it?

edit on 10-11-2012 by eLPresidente because: (no reason given)

But how again is it socialist or communist? The people behind the nwo are billionares and trillionares, supported by republicans/democrats/libertarians. Anyone that is for fiscal conservatism is supporting these monsters and their UN agenda.

It is not agenda 21 either. Agenda 21 is about global sustainable growth, which AGAIN is capitalist. Investors flock to the places with the cheapest labor to exploit the locals desperate in need of a job.

The war machine is a right wing agenda also. Please do not tell me that democrats, greens, socialists, communists support the wars in the middle east. You know it is false. Romney was the one saying we should attack iran before it gets a nuke, which of course is bs israeli propaganda so the zionists can invade.

Originally posted by mamabeth
reply to post by kerazeesicko

 

These "experts" agree that gun control works:
Stalin,Pol Pot,Hitler,Mao Tse Tung,Kim Jong Il,Castro,Qaddafi...

Cuba, China, Russia and many of the now eastern block nations OPPOSE this global arms treaty sanctioned by the UN! The capitalist nations are the ones pushing for it the most. Don't you find it ironic? Look if you don't believe me.

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


Not at all . The head of the Globalist Bankster scheme is in England with a branch in France . That head of this NWO boil on societies ass is the Rothschild Banking Cabal . It was the 1st Rothschild that started the whole control the world by controlling the money scheme . The Colonies as America hates to be called has been made the work horse of the UN and in fact the Rockefellers donated the property for the UN headquarters . The Rockefellers are big in the NWO and population control . Look for extreme population control measures to come about very soon under the veil of pandemics and war. The guns are a way that the Elite could be stopped . They don't care about people . One must simply research Eugenics Quotes and you will see the Elite and their cabal ( Bill Gates recently) talking about population reduction . One such population reduction in Darfur where guns seem to be thrown into the hands of people who can't afford to eat regularly could be related to one of Margret Sanger's and others eugenics statements . The push to disarm the public is because the Globalist fear the masses .

Do you think the government and the UN wants to disarm you because they care about you? Do you really think they care about your well being?? See that electric razor wire that surrounds you? See we provide you security! That's for your protection, don't you feel safe? No blindfold will be needed as people will accept it eyes wide open.

Guns can never save you from governments, BUT, claymores, landmines, and rocket propelled grenades, sure can put a dampener on their dreams

reply to post by SimonPeter


The only thorn in the back of the NWO has been the communist and facist nations, which ultimately destroyed themselves and left us with crony capitalism. People keep strongly insisting they fear both, when in reality they are barking up the wrong tree.

Today north korea and cuba are the only anti status quo countries and they are paying an awfully heavy price for that. People are starving because of the decade long blockade. Millions have died either to protect communism or to destroy it.

The elite hate extremism, whether it is right wing religious or left wing athiesm. Extremists are not easy to convert to luciferianism, everyone else is. Iran is also a target as well as christian america.

Think people, think! And yes I know about the rockefellers and rothschilds. Every long time CT already does!

Originally posted by UltraMarine
reply to post by KaiserSoze

 

Its sad and pathetic to see your love for Guns . The same guns which kill innocent Souls . The same guns which were used in Mass Murder . A disciplined higher society believes in Rule of Law and prohibits guns from Civilian Hand .

Sorry but what a load of BS.

A "discplined higher society" knows that it is utter asinine thinking of blaming an object instead of those who pull that trigger.

Those same people who go around using drones,running guns to the south of the border, and who have more blood on their hands that the average john doe gun owner.

And people are sitting there saying they have the right to deny them the right A CONSTITUTiONAL RIGHT to keep and bare arms.

To wit:

As the Founding Fathers knew well, a government that does not trust its honest, law-abiding, taxpaying citizens with the means of self-defense is not itself worthy of trust. Laws disarming honest citizens proclaim that the government is the master, not the servant, of the people. -- Jeff Snyder

I personally do not recognize the power or authority of the UN or the current government to deny me any right that was explicitly laid out in US constitution.

Originally posted by EarthCitizen07



But how again is it socialist or communist? The people behind the nwo are billionares and trillionares, supported by republicans/democrats/libertarians. Anyone that is for fiscal conservatism is supporting these monsters and their UN agenda.

It is not agenda 21 either. Agenda 21 is about global sustainable growth, which AGAIN is capitalist. Investors flock to the places with the cheapest labor to exploit the locals desperate in need of a job.

The war machine is a right wing agenda also. Please do not tell me that democrats, greens, socialists, communists support the wars in the middle east. You know it is false. Romney was the one saying we should attack iran before it gets a nuke, which of course is bs israeli propaganda so the zionists can invade.

There is nothing wrong with being a billionaire or a trillionaire or maybe even a sectillionaire if an economy can support them.

The only thing wrong with that situation is if that super wealthy person uses a governments' monopoly on the use of force to intervene. The government is like the mafia.

Fiscal conservatism doesn't support the UN, that actually makes no sense and I think that is more of a meritless attack on something you don't agree with than it is an actual logical argument.

Agenda 21 cannot exist in a truly capitalist environment. Agenda 21 is as NWO as you can get.

The war machine is a military industrial complex and banking agenda. They have worked their way into the two major parties. I don't know why you conveniently left out 'libertarians' in your list of 'GOOD' parties that are supposed to be anti-war because Libertarians are non-aggressionists and democrats under Obama got us into more wars than Dubya Bush ever did. I don't understand why group and attack libertarians for things they don't even support. You don't see me going around ATS and trashing the Green party for no reason. I will, however, give you reasons why I think its unsustainable of the green party to advocate free education.

Yes Romney is a horrible person with no courage to fight against his neocon advisers, I never said he was good. Romney also isn't a true capitalist. I don't know why he was brought up. In fact, I don't know why any of this stuff was brought up, we're talking about gun rights.

Now that I directly responded to your points. Will you give mine a shot?

I'd also like to see if any of the opposers of gun rights think the UN has any right whatsoever of disregarding our national sovereignty and stripping us of our HUMAN RIGHT TO SELF-DEFENSE.

Do you indeed support the new world order? that is what the UN is right? a world government trying to blur the lines between global and national sovereignty?

Interesting...isn't it?

Originally posted by eLPresidente

There is nothing wrong with being a billionaire or a trillionaire or maybe even a sectillionaire if an economy can support them.

It would be interesting to see how much income tax they pay each year versus the amount in offshore accounts, whatever accounts they use. Many of them untraceable and of course untaxable by the american government.
That means money that could be used to fund the various projects and programs in america are getting severly shortchanged. The middle class pays the highest percentage and this is undisputable. Wealthy rub shoulders with the wealthy, not the poor.

The only thing wrong with that situation is if that super wealthy person uses a governments' monopoly on the use of force to intervene. The government is like the mafia.

The government is whatever the people decide it should be. It is run by elected officials who have different ideologies like flavors of ice cream. Each ideology is different and effects the nation differently. Significantly reducing legislation may help small business, but big business will continue to get away, because they can. It takes a common sense approach to solve problems. More tariffs, less meaningless regulations, more taxes from those who can afford to pay more.

Fiscal conservatism doesn't support the UN, that actually makes no sense and I think that is more of a meritless attack on something you don't agree with than it is an actual logical argument.

A nationalised federal reserve would increase the treasury funds by interest from the banks paid to the government, go after the tax criminals, substantially raise tariffs. This goes against big business and has no chance of ever passing. The campaign contributors would go ape#.

Agenda 21 cannot exist in a truly capitalist environment. Agenda 21 is as NWO as you can get.

It already does. You just don't acknowledge crony capitalism is still capitalism. It is all based on big investor whims. Why have international investors who take advantage of governments? Wall street runs everything, you won't admit it.

The war machine is a military industrial complex and banking agenda. They have worked their way into the two major parties. I don't know why you conveniently left out 'libertarians' in your list of 'GOOD' parties that are supposed to be anti-war because Libertarians are non-aggressionists and democrats under Obama got us into more wars than Dubya Bush ever did.

To the contrary democrats got us out of iraq and will probably get us out of afghanistan. Obama does not like netanyahoo that much either. He snobs him quite often and that is good. Israel does not deserve special treatment.

Yes libertarians are non-aggression. But I don't like their small governemnt ideas. Social services should not be destroyed. Definitly fine tuned and improved though. Libertarians are also anti unions and that turns me off. You guys are for laissez faire capitalism which I despise. I believe in law and order within reason.

I don't understand why group and attack libertarians for things they don't even support. You don't see me going around ATS and trashing the Green party for no reason. I will, however, give you reasons why I think its unsustainable of the green party to advocate free education.

The tax payers should pay for education: primary and secondary. Most of the money for primary education comes from property taxes and for secondary it comes from state and federal taxes.

Yes Romney is a horrible person with no courage to fight against his neocon advisers, I never said he was good. Romney also isn't a true capitalist. I don't know why he was brought up. In fact, I don't know why any of this stuff was brought up, we're talking about gun rights.

Now that I directly responded to your points. Will you give mine a shot?

edit on 12-11-2012 by eLPresidente because: (no reason given)

Because too many idiots think the left is out to get the gun owners as though we hate them. To the contrary most socialist/communist revolutions would have never taken place without guns, rpg's, knives, grenades, etc.

The REAL left(screw the democrats) values guns just as much as the right. The greens are an exception maybe. I am talking about hardcore socialists like mao and castro. They took out the right wing dictators with blood and sweat! viva la revolucion!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by votan
reply to post by badgerprints

 

you can';t link your source... it is not in mainstream news and you have no idea if it is true...


i just read a story where republicans show their true colors by saying they hate all minorities and they want to finish the job on native americans with drone strikes.

I read it somewhere.. its not on mainstream media and I am not sure that it is true

edit on 9-11-2012 by votan because: (no reason given)

edit on 9-11-2012 by votan because: (no reason given)

I just went over this thread again and i couldnt help myself that i need to respond to your post

CBC: U.S. launches another drone plane to patrol Canadian border [right over Akwesasne]

akwesasnecounterspin.wordpress.com...

Akwesasne upsate NY Near Boarder around my location

Since 2008 this activity been going on

Border Guards Gone: U.S. Drones Patrol Akwesasne

www.indigenouspeoplesissues.com...:border-guards-gone-us-drones-patrol-akwesasne&catid=52:north-a merica-indigenous-peoples&Itemid=74

U.S. Border Troubles: From Pakistan to Akwesasne
Posted on May 22, 2011 by Joshua Reno
anthronow.com...

( Really Akwesasne )
Predator B Drone Aircraft To Patrol Canadian Border From Ft. Drum (CNN)
ireport.cnn.com...

here at ats
Armed drones now flying over the US
www.abovetopsecret.com...

Fort Drum a Army Base in Watertown have the control of these drones , not the police

and more Focused on AKWESASNE MOHAWK TERRITORY

Cigarette Smuggling , Pot Growing

... Maybe .... Human Trafficing Smuggling ( Frozen River ) Could be the Reason

Banning Guns LOL People will find a way

How about just the reversal !!

The Wild WILD World Gone West! Call it a Free For All Population Control
Especaily places like China and India

Then when the Population is Down

Say Stop!! Now or we Drop the Atom , Hydro , Nuke Bomb if you Dont Stop

Jeeze you think TPTB would think of the Oppisite !! You know 500 MIllion World Wide Minimum
( Georgia Guidstones )

People Look

We Had Projectile Weapons since Man Threw the First Bone at another one like himself !!

Gun Banning is a Myth ...

reply to post by EarthCitizen07


I would've liked it if you answered my gun rights question. Also, the democrats did not get us out of Iraq, Dubya signed the treaty to retreat by the end of 2011, not Obama, not the Dems.

I also think it was wrong of you for grouping libertarians into the pro-war category, that was petty and unfair of you.

Crony capitalism is not capitalism. Crony capitalism is fascism and everybody knows fascism is not capitalism. I don't understand why you want me to acknowledge something that isn't true. Perhaps you might need to revisit the terminology, history and definition of these terms and ideas.

There is really nothing wrong with having wealthy people, they are wealthy because they earned it (in a true capitalist environment, without the intervention of the government). In our situations, wealthy people leave and go off shore because they're forced off shore, why do you think the rate at which people take their money off shore for foreign investment directly correlates to how much the corporate tax rate increases?

Why do you want tariffs? they're horrible for commerce. You cannot sustain an industry artificially for the long term, it is impossible.

Of course I admit wall street runs everything, what are you talking about? I always admit it! I preach it all the time!!! Let's get away from the petty jabs and focus on the issues at hand.

So how about gunrights? How do you justify stripping away a human beings' last line of defense against tyranny?

reply to post by eLPresidente

Crony capitalism is not capitalism. Crony capitalism is fascism and everybody knows fascism is not capitalism

WHAT?



do you know whats behind the Podium tho TWO Objects on the Wall

of the

House of Representatives ?

Originally posted by eLPresidente
reply to post by EarthCitizen07

 

I would've liked it if you answered my gun rights question. Also, the democrats did not get us out of Iraq, Dubya signed the treaty to retreat by the end of 2011, not Obama, not the Dems.

he got us out none-the-less. sometimes treaties are reneged.

I also think it was wrong of you for grouping libertarians into the pro-war category, that was petty and unfair of you.

agreed. it was by mistake!

Crony capitalism is not capitalism. Crony capitalism is fascism and everybody knows fascism is not capitalism. I don't understand why you want me to acknowledge something that isn't true. Perhaps you might need to revisit the terminology, history and definition of these terms and ideas.

it certainly is capitalism, that is why it is called crony capitalism rather than crony socialism. fascism died after world war 2. remember mixed economies and such? nothing in america is public except schools and limited social services. everything has been privatised!

There is really nothing wrong with having wealthy people, they are wealthy because they earned it (in a true capitalist environment, without the intervention of the government). In our situations, wealthy people leave and go off shore because they're forced off shore, why do you think the rate at which people take their money off shore for foreign investment directly correlates to how much the corporate tax rate increases?

Why do you want tariffs? they're horrible for commerce. You cannot sustain an industry artificially for the long term, it is impossible.

because the national economies need protection from the global investors, who put profit ahead of everything else, including but not limited to worker salaries, health insurance, enviromental pollution, etc. workers in china, india should not work in sweat shop conditions.

In america right to work nonsense has killed unions. I guess we can thank ronald reagan who started the trend.

Of course I admit wall street runs everything, what are you talking about? I always admit it! I preach it all the time!!! Let's get away from the petty jabs and focus on the issues at hand.

So how about gunrights? How do you justify stripping away a human beings' last line of defense against tyranny?

edit on 12-11-2012 by eLPresidente because: (no reason given)

I have already stated i support limited gun rights. limited in that police and military should keep the upper hand and gun owners should be screened(just like they are now) for qualification. not everyone deserves a gun. that does not mean i support all of the current gun laws, NEITHER does it mean I support the united "rothschild" nations telling america what it needs to do.

reply to post by Wolfenz


Are you talking about the italian fascist pillar? lol

Yes, I guess that makes my point. Thanks for pointing that out.