Post Election Choices.

Good Morning and after a brief break to catch my breath and put events and thoughts into perspective, I'm baaaaaack! (No one figured they could get rid of me that easily did they? )

I'll be the first to admit that I hadn't anticipated the result and as much by the specifics as over all outcome. It did come as something of a shock for many reasons. Ultimately though, this election season did a number for warping perspective on a lot of things. The overall cycle saw people get far more direct and personal than I can ever recall it. That extends out into real life and pretty much at all levels. The polarization has been incredible.

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I deeply believe it's also critical to the future of our United States to move beyond this as quickly as possible. The nation faces a great many serious problems just as it did a month ago and as it did a year ago. Some are far more immediate due to both parties standing on party lines that prevented a deal on the budget crisis prior to this point, for starters. Who brought us to this point is irrelevant at this stage.

Obama did this part of it or Bush did that part that doesn't make one step in the direction of solving what has the potential to bring the economy down. (besides, it took Presidents back to Nixon for the final crash to be possible) The relative importance of parties also pretty well became moot after this election's results were made clear.

The problems our nation faces truly transcend parties because they are too large for either to solve with only it's approach or ideas. The American people saw fit to vote with a divided Congress and the budget generating side being the Republican. Boehner does nothing but make me groan.....as does Harry Reid. There we have it though, next to Obama, those are the two leaders of the United States. Whatever mid terms could do either way to change it? If they don't work together between now and then, mid terms may not be terribly important.

I can't well deny the fact Obama won by a very solid showing in numbers for the E.C.. A system I very much believe in and can work either way, as it has over previous elections. By those numbers, Our President won by a large margin and reaffirmed his place as the President for both Liberal and Conservative alike.

At the same time, it's very important to recall in American terms....that is, American to American and as individuals, it wasn't too far off a 50/50 straight up split, as it has been now for many elections running. County level is something I'll leave alone and not because it's a negative. That makes NO difference to Obama winning, and he well earned his victory by the numbers. What the popular vote IS important to indicate is how strong a mandate one side of the Political Spectrum has over the other in majority of the voting public. In this case, there is an obvious mandate to the left of center....but only just a bit left.

Romney conceded and isn't challenging anything. (Thank God..ANY challenge would have been a national ordeal) So partisanship has about 3 more years before it matters again. Every problem brought up now, isn't a juggle for political advantage. The only advantage now is finding a way to navigate a financial disaster, among other problems across multiple nations that has been decades in the the making. It would have happened whether Obama won in 2008 or not, let alone the 2012 election. He isn't what caused it, even if some may figure a good case for timing could be made. Cause isn't his alone by any stretch.

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We have a choice then. Each of us and within our own sense of right and wrong, not right and left.

We can:

#1. Continue to fight and tear at one another over a concept of right and left....liberal and conservative....This has absolutely no bearing either way on the most immediate and pressing threats to American stability if not global as well. I've been as guilty as anyone of this offense and I admit it. No excuses. None apply. It's something I regret and fully intend to move beyond to the extent I have let it draw me back to that paradigm.

#2. Collectively find some common ground and stop the infighting at least until our nation has become stable again. TPM and the people who did and still do make up Occupy have a lot of bad water which has flowed between them on many levels. However, they are grass roots to the individuals who made up the movements. These are the folks who need to listen to each other as well as talk without sharp edges or sarcasm. I've been around both groups (though I never formally belonged to any TPM group personally) and the differences aren't nearly as large as the seeming need to stand on them. Both groups have the energy and strengths/weaknesses among the people themselves to make a combined movement that would ...WOULD...make a difference where neither has alone.

There are other ways to make it work I'm sure. That is a great topic to perhaps open the discussion on for how to go forward in moving beyond the hate and distrust the politics have created. I just say that making it work is something that simply has to be done.

Our Children's future depends on it and whether there is a future for the generation beyond that may well depend on how these issues are approached and solved. President Obama didn't lay the foundation of these problems. He didn't spent over 30 years helping them grow. His degree of blame just isn't the point now at the end. He is the man sitting in the Office now though and so, I hope the promises, plans and intentions expressed in specifics during the campaign work out as advertised. I very sincerely hope they do. After all, the alternative is literally rooting for harm to my own nation. Politics stops well short of crossing that line.


(Hands out carrots to all in a gesture of goodwill)

I'm with you 100% Wrabbit! We've got a broken system, a nation full of unhappy people, and a whole lot of work to do!

I've come with my standard starting points to offer for discussion:

1) Ban lobbying - outright and in all forms.

2) Campaign finance reform - no more SuperPacs and a communal fund, based in donations, that benefits ALL candidates in a race equally. At the beginning of a race - small amounts equally apportioned to each candidate - then increasing monies made available as the race progresses and the field of candidates trims down through natural attrition.

3) Tax code reform. Simple - no nonsense flat rates. No exemptions, loopholes, or tricks. You make x amount of dollars - you pay x in taxes. Period.

4) Streamlined reform of all Federal and State programs. From the DMV to DFACS these offices are inefficient bastions of waste and fraud. They need to be run like businesses - not like institutions.

5) Lifetime term limitations for public office. Eight years per office held - maximum of three offices per lifetime.

Those things address the major issues, IMO, and are subjects that all Americans should be able to get their teeth into.

~Heff

I would just like to say that as a young independent I agree with both of you. I voted for Gary Johnson because I want to do my part to help raise public awareness of the relevance of more than just the two parties. I'm not going to lie, I knew Johnson stood a snowballs chance, and I don't even agree with him on everything, such as his opinion on taxes and minimum wage, but I did what I felt was the responsible thing to do.

I am here because I'm a bit of a conspiracy theorist and I truly do believe that there is indeed corruption in politics. To me, it seems outrageous to lay the blame on any single president for our problems. In my opinion, the blame falls on many more politicians and I don't even blame G.W. or Obama. Honestly I do not believe they have anywhere near the power that we are led to believe which means that it isn't fair to blame those men for the problems.

I find it incredibly annoying when people get so worked up over the left and right "agenda." Nothing ever gets done if the only thing we do is argue so I can't understand why so many of us prefer to take that road. I like to think of myself as someone who is willing to see things from all angles but much like just about every other person alive, I can get frustrated if someone comes off as demanding or insulting and then it will probably just become a pointless argument. We should all try hard to bring our views to others as politely and professionally as we can and ask that they consider them and discuss those views with us in a humane manner rather than like a bunch of cats fighting over a meal.

We really do need to work together to solve the problems that we face. Arguing amongst ourselves will result in nothing more than a bunch of wasted time.

EDIT:

I would just like to add that I certainly agree with every one of those points Heff. Personally, I would prefer it if the presidential seat could only be held once by a single person and for 5 years. That would give them plenty of time to do their thing without having to worry about reelection and allow for someone else to try something different if they screw up. Honestly, if elections didn't require spending so much money I would think 3 years would be better, but with money being an issue 5 years sound fair to me.

Sounds like some great places to start. Term limits are a must. These positions should never be lifetime ones. Incumbent advantage has become so strong on so many cases that unchallenged races are not all that uncommon these days. That's disturbing in itself. To see some of the longest running in Congress in recent times though is a look at how far that can go wrong.

Personally I'd say 3 terms in the house (6 years) and 2 terms senate (12). A major thing I'd also say is that multiple government positions of any kind, elected or not, contribute and may add to a single pension being built up but multiple pensions from Government service not a part of it.

The one other thing I think would make a huge difference is eliminating all private money into campaigns, across the board. Period. Anyone can run ads or whatever on their own. Their right and their business. However, I'd say the campaigns themselves ought to be 100% public financed with matching funds and NOT be the choice the candidates in the last few races have just casually pushed aside to set all time records all around for money flowing through politics. How that works out for 3rd parties is a fair issue and this would require a State ratified Constitutional Amendment which is VERY rare but it would go a very long way, IMO, to removing corruption from that stage of politics.

Right now, it's 100% about money driving the system and I'll bet every special interest group on both sides would fight it tooth and nail against any reform that meaningful right to the end.

reply to post by Wrabbit2000


That is a very good point and you're probably right about both sides fighting it tooth and nail.

*NO private money

*Term Limits

*Every candidate gets an equal chance to speak to the nation in the same ways. Everyone participates without any favoritism being shown toward anyone in the debates.

*No politician is paid for the job they are no longer doing after they finish. I don't know of any career where you just work for 4 years and are paid for the rest of your life. Especially considering where their pay comes from. What makes them more deserving than any of us? It's unfair to the citizens and quite frankly it's a waste of money that we don't have to waste.

EDIT:

And while we're at it lets lower their pay! The country went through/is going through some hard times and most citizens have had to see a lower income. So I ask again, what makes them any different? If pay cuts are something we have to accept than so should they until we can pick back up. That might actually give them more of a reason to work harder to pick us back up.


I think those should be common sense issues that we all should be able to agree with and a great place to start.

Originally posted by Hefficide
I've come with my standard starting points to offer for discussion:

1) Ban lobbying - outright and in all forms.

2) Campaign finance reform - no more SuperPacs and a communal fund, based in donations, that benefits ALL candidates in a race equally. At the beginning of a race - small amounts equally apportioned to each candidate - then increasing monies made available as the race progresses and the field of candidates trims down through natural attrition.

3) Tax code reform. Simple - no nonsense flat rates. No exemptions, loopholes, or tricks. You make x amount of dollars - you pay x in taxes. Period.

4) Streamlined reform of all Federal and State programs. From the DMV to DFACS these offices are inefficient bastions of waste and fraud. They need to be run like businesses - not like institutions.

5) Lifetime term limitations for public office. Eight years per office held - maximum of three offices per lifetime.

It'll never happen within the current system. Too many people dependant upon the status quo. The more common sense one sees, the more one realizes it's all a game ... the game is rigged ... and the fans get eaten at the end ...

Seriously, if a bunch of late night internet prowlers can look at this and determine "... this ain't half bad ...", then why can't the people who do this for a living come to similar if not the same conclusions ... see above

It is gonna depend entirely on the Republican Party what happens. The fact is they are dying all on their own. Fiscal Conservitism can win but their decades social policy is a loser. Given Boehner's statements I don't have much hope. It isn't like the Republicans got a clean win in the House. It is the first election since the Census, and all the typical Gerrymandering skewed large segments of those results it will take some time before the population moves around enough to change that stranglehold. Even changing the districts didn't completely help them, they still have control of the House but lost two seats. Make no mistake the House Republicans were put on warning to get it together and do your job. The President was reelected with a clear approach to how we should address our fiscal issues it is up to the House to divorce Grover Norquist and get to work implementing it.

reply to post by KeliOnyx

Well, No, it will take both the Republican and the Democratic parties. Democrats control the Senate and the White House. Republicans control the House. This vote saw the President re-elected confortably on the E.c. count and a near 50/50 split on the vote of the average man and woman in the nation. It's still a near even ideological split and so both sides must give a little or we sit here bickering until the end and we all lose.

When one looks at the actual break down of how this vote went, the number for President are clear...the rest? Well, it's a very mixed bag it means it's a world of compromise for everyone involved. Otherwise, it's doom on a stick and we all get a serving.