How the Air Force killed the fighter fleet

reply to post by defcon5


No, the Navy has two UCAV projects underway. The UCAS-D, which is the X-47, and the UCLASS, which is the one cited in the paper.

The UCLASS is the Unmanned Carrier Launch Strike Surveillance program. The UCAS-D is the Unmanned Combat Air System Aircraft Carrier Demonstration. They're two separate packages. They have only issued the RFI/P for UCLASS earlier this year.

Boeing, Northrup, General Atomics and Lockheed are in the running for UCLASS. Northrup is demonstrating the UCAS-D. Boeing is expected to offer the X-45C, Northrup the X-47, General Atomics the Sea Avenger, and Lockheed the Sea Ghost.

Originally posted by SplitInfinity
reply to post by Zaphod58

 

There are several reasons that the USAF has not set plans for a large number of F/A-22 and F-35 purchases. The USAF has and will be soon flying Robotic Stealth Fighters. These Highly Secret and New Fighters have performance that goes way beyond any Manned Aircraft as well as it is in line with the U.S. Military's Directive to create a 40% Robotic Air Force by 2020.

Thus they are not making anymore F/A-22's and the F-35 will not be made in large numbers either.
Split Infinity

It's clear that in the future, manned combat aircraft will be "pack leaders" for a platoon of robotic combat craft. A few exceptionally capable humans integrating awareness and spidey sense with low-observable attack robots drawing the threats and executing the initial hits.

reply to post by mbkennel


You are correct. The USAF as well as every other branch of the U.S. Military has a directive to have a large percentage of it's Force be ROBOTIC by as early as 2016 which is the year the U.S. Army must have at least 50% of all Vehicle Cargo Transport Trucks and ESPECIALLY Weapons carrying Trucks be completely Robotic.

The USAF must have 40% of all Aircraft be Robotic by 2020. The original date was 2017. The U.S. Navy will have almost 80% of all attack Aircraft become Robotic by 2020.

This is the reason why the U.S. is not making manned aircraft in any great numbers as Robotic Aircraft are Faster, more maneuverable, capable of carrying more weapons, capable of staying in flight longer as well as having greater range.

The United States is multiple Decades ahead of any other Country in Super Computers as well as has reportedly developed a QUANTUM COMPUTER. Such a Computer will be capable of SELF DETERMINATION and be able to react to any situation vastly quicker than any Human Leader.

This actually SCARES ME as I more than most...know how much of a REALITY this is while many others may believe it to be Science Fiction. It is not. I worry about a Quantum Computers ability of SELF DETERMINATION and I would hope a Form of Development Governor can be placed on something that we are able to create but as of yet...do not know the effects that this creation could have.

The Human Brain is a Quantum Computer. It is Biological in Nature and thus constrained by that fact. A Synthetic Version of the Human Brain as the Quantum Computer is said to have it's method of Computation modeled after Human Engrams...thus it is not too far a leap to think that such a Computer could become SENTIENT.

The MORAL implications of this as well as the DANGER of the creation of a NEW LIFE FORM that may or may not have the ability to govern it's own behavior as the Creation is only constrained by the CREATORS limits placed within it's construct. We could very well be looking at an ARNOLD MOVIE in the making!

Split Infinity

reply to post by mbkennel


Eventually. The problem is having enough aircraft to fly all the missions until we get to that point. The average age of the Air Force, if you break it down by type is staggering.

Just the major aircraft in use:

F-15 - 28+ years with a mission capable rate in FY12 of a whopping 69%
F-16 - 20 years
B-52 - youngest is 50 FY12 mission capable rate of 78.3%
B-2 - 15 or so FY12 MCR of 51.3%
B-1 - 20 or so FY12 MCR of 56.8%
C-130 - between 15 and 25 depending on Active or Reserve (some C-130Js that are new spread throughout the fleet)
C-5 - 23 for the ones undergoing the M standard upgrade
KC-10 - 23.5 years
KC-135 - 40+ years

I don't even know why you'd need a human controlled pack leader.
The unmanned drones will be able to preform combat maneuvers that will leave a human unconscious. Having a “control” plane in that group would be a liability, as that is what everyone would target first.

We've had air superiority in all the battles we've fought for years. We most likely will in the near future. ATM I doubt there will be any direct confrontations between superpowers, but rather continued proxy wars between smaller states. If there is ever a direct conflict between superpowers, fighters aren't going to be of much use anyway as it will be mostly sub/ground based missiles.

IMHO, the smart thing for them to do is to extend what they have as long as it takes until they have the drones up to par. I mean how many years now have they been extending the B707 variants and B-52's? Those all have to be well over their original airframe hour limits.

Originally posted by Zaphod58
reply to post by boomer135

 

Upon further reading, they can receive Link 16, they just can't broadcast on it. So they can hear the tanker nicely, they just couldn't share anything with it, even if they wanted to.

Actually, and I'm not sure how it works now, but in 2006 when i got out, the only thing link-16 was doing on a tanker was relaying crap. We couldn't talk or receive anything with it except for a new program that hooked up to a laptop and gave us a moving motion map of the area and flight plan. And of course with the map, we could see where all the aircraft in the area were, like an entire map of Afghanistan right in front of you with all airborne assets on it. But other than that, it was just another five minutes added to the boom's preflight just to hook it up and test it.

Originally posted by defcon5

The days coming where the only manned military aircraft will be those involved in airlift and rescue operations. Even the fuelers will be unmanned (sorry boomer

) .

Yeah I figured it would be coming in the distant future. I saw a concept of a stealth tanker and airlift plane a few years back. Not sure if it would ever work or not, but the design of the tanker was pretty extreme for stealth purposes. However, who know what kind of capabilities we will have when we finish the KC-X and KC-Y programs. Maybe KC-Z is the next generation stealth tanker???

Hey check this out. Can somebody say receptacle????



On another note, the X-47C will be a pretty impressive plane to say the least. Here's a quote I had saved but sadly no source link. But I'm sure its out there somewhere:

When it arrives near the end of the decade it will be even larger—with a whopping 172-foot (52.4-meter) wingspan. That will make it as big as the B-2 bomber. Theoretically, the X-47C will be able to carry 10,000 pounds (4,500 kilograms) of armament.

Um, so this jet will be the size of a B-2, can carry 10,000 lbs of armament. Most of us knew that when the X-47C dropped off the books that it went into the black world. I see this as the next gen bomber or 2018 bomber that the Air Force wants. Actually, I'm willing to bet quite a bit that this will eventually be that bomber. I'm sure they will add a cockpit and fly the aircraft either manned or unmanned. But who knows.

Another reason for the USAF's lack of building Manned Aircraft is the dawning of the FEL or Free Electron Laser. This system will force a complete and total restructuring of the U.S. Military as the FEL which has been publicly announced to be installed on the new Ford Class Carrier CVN-78 USS. Gerald R. Ford which will start sea trials in 2015...and I NEVER thought they would go public with this!

I actually almost fell out of my chair as I watched the News and saw a Non-Nuclear Powered FEL being tested on a small craft at sea as it was targeted and IT WAS ON THE NEWS! The capability of this Weapon cannot be understated. It is quite possibly the weapon that will make Nuclear Weapons OBSOLETE!

Since all U.S. Nimitz class carriers as well as all Aegis Cruisers as well as the New Ford Class carriers which will also have the CVN-79 J.F.K. put to sea in 2020 all equipped with an FEL as well as a Reflective Beam Splitting Satellite System for over the horizon targeting as well as several Land Based FEL's and a yet to be built Airborne FEL...IF they can reduce the weight of the Nuclear Reactor or if they use the only whispered about Low Temp. Micro-Fusion Reactor which is said to have 7 times the power output of the new A1B Fission Reactors of which each Carrier will have two installed.

With a Weapon such as the FEL which is capable of being both offensive and defensive as well as being of such a magnitude of power...the idea of large fleets of Warplanes which would be rendered obsolete as an FEL could easily vaporize an entire enemies Air Force, Land Troops, Missiles in silo or in flight, Navy's or anything else it could target...there are going to be some House and Senate Members screaming that their states Military programs have been cancelled.

Of what I know...the FEL system is at such a High Level of Change from what the U.S. Military has previously known as how to fight a war...there seems to be an almost frightening feeling as well as shock to both U.S. Military and U.S. Civilian Leadership as to how to proceed in restructuring the U.S. Military. Nothing of this level of capability has existed before. It will take some time for them to figure it out. Split Infinity

Originally posted by boomer135
Actually, and I'm not sure how it works now, but in 2006 when i got out, the only thing link-16 was doing on a tanker was relaying crap. We couldn't talk or receive anything with it except for a new program that hooked up to a laptop and gave us a moving motion map of the area and flight plan. And of course with the map, we could see where all the aircraft in the area were, like an entire map of Afghanistan right in front of you with all airborne assets on it. But other than that, it was just another five minutes added to the boom's preflight just to hook it up and test it.

And the F-22 would be able to receive that from the tanker. But that's all it could do. It doesn't have the capability to send anything back to the tanker, without a translator.

reply to post by Zaphod58


Gotcha. that makes sense now.

reply to post by SplitInfinity



FEL on a ship beats airborne missiles---except true intermediate or long range ballistic missiles entering at orbital velocities, but I doubt their terminal targeting accuracy against moving targets. (They are going extremely fast, but have no way to look out thanks to massive re-entry ionization and do terminal maneuvering sufficient to get reliable hits on mobile targets without nuclear warheads.)

Lower tech torpedoes on a sub beats ship. As do JDAM's from a B2 or B3.

The more I read the more I feel that in any serious conflict against reasonably technological opponents, the more I think that everybody's fleets will end up subsurface, one way or another.

reply to post by mbkennel

The most important part of any Direct Energy Weapon is in it's ability to have a sufficient Target and Acquisition System. The U.S. is using a bank of Networked Super Computers which makes the targeting of Orbital Mirved Nuclear Warheaded Missiles not hard at all.

Add to this the ring of Satellites with Multiple Prism Insect Like Compound Reflection which can also Beam Split as well as they are each independently capable of turning as well as changing shape...and you have what is needed to take out a sky full of Mirves. Split Infinity