Can't beat em, join em.

reply to post by MystikMushroom


Although I agree with your premise Duchess, that education starts at home and that parents have a responsibility to that..

However, the government, if they are going to provide educational services, have a mandate and a duty to do it correctly, not all half assed like they've done for the past 30 years.

The school system is still run like it was after WWII.

I'm amazed actually at how piss poor it is in the US. That's not the students fault, nor the parents, that's a direct failure of the department of education and your elected officials. When was the last time there was meaninfull education reform?

No Child Left Behind? Hardly a reform at all.

Why are chartered schools performing SO Much better and are able to close the scoring gap between poor and rich students? They are taking the same ammount of money that public schools do, but they are doing it correctly.

I watched a documentary the other night called Waiting For Superman. It was VERY eye opening, I suggest for anybody who wants some serious education ( pardon the pun) on how the system works to watch it.

~Tenth

reply to post by kawika


If you're a straight white male under 40 you're screwed they won't give you a damn thing. (not even that delicious guvernment cheese everybody loves.)

reply to post by tothetenthpower
Why? Teacher accountability. Something sorely lacking in unionized public schools.

reply to post by MystikMushroom


Well true... CA spends more per student than any other state.

And with very poor results.

$$ does not equal education.

Actually I changed jobs in the 90s to a company that would pay for my school through tuition assistance. And the job was a less desirable job, but it did pay for engineering school such that now I can work and earn a good living. But night school is arduous, I remember control systems class, ran to past midnight...

Originally posted by cavalryscout
reply to post by kawika

 

If you're a straight white male under 40 you're screwed they won't give you a damn thing. (not even that delicious guvernment cheese everybody loves.)

Very true. I am part Algonquin. It may be time to "rediscover my heritage".

reply to post by DarthMuerte


Teacher Unions are the biggest obstacle to a proper education system.

Tenure is also something that is really really absurd to give anybody before they've been there for at least 5 to 10 years. Even then, after a STRENUOUS review of your performance should you receive it.

~Tenth

reply to post by cavalryscout

If you're a straight white male under 40 you're screwed they won't give you a damn thing. (not even that delicious guvernment cheese everybody loves.)

Yup, they know better. Never going to vote for em, no matter how much free stuff they give me. This is a no go from the start...

But wait, great grandma Morning Star was 100% Choctaw....So that makes me...hmmm, something...

Song about Govmt Cheese and an Obama paradise

reply to post by tothetenthpower


I think the education system along with MSM are the tools that have made possible this dependent society and bloodless invasion of the commies...

You might be on to something there.

But once we go over the edge, more than 50% getting free stuff, there is no turning back. This is where we are.

reply to post by kawika


Those figures are inflated. There aren't 155 Million americans on food stamps or government assistance.

*some* form of government assistance could mean a bankrupcy...

Be careful the numbers you are given, shown as fact when those facts are easily twisted.

Yes, more people are poor, the rich are richer. It seems no matter what anybody does in congress the disparity only seems to grown. It's not a red vs blue thing, it's an entire congressional, governmental problem.

~Tenth

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Well, can't say what the real number is.

I have observed that they play radio commercials in CA to encourage people to call and sign up for food stamps. THey call it "Cal Fresh".

ANd the election went the way it did. With the state of things, I conclude we must be at or close to that magic tipping point. What else could explain what happened.

Let me go find that quote..from big Ron

Perhaps what he had in mind was what Prof. Alexander Frazer Tytler has written, that a democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover they can vote themselves largesse out of the public treasury. From that moment on the majority, he said, always vote for the candidate promising the most benefits from the treasury with the result that democracy always collpases over a loose fiscal policy, always to be followed by a dictatorship. Unfortunately, we can't argue with the professor because when he wrote that we were still colonials of Great Britain and he was explaining what had destroyed the Athenian Republic more than 2000 years before.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by MystikMushroom

 

Although I agree with your premise Duchess, that education starts at home and that parents have a responsibility to that..

However, the government, if they are going to provide educational services, have a mandate and a duty to do it correctly, not all half assed like they've done for the past 30 years.

The school system is still run like it was after WWII.

I'm amazed actually at how piss poor it is in the US. That's not the students fault, nor the parents, that's a direct failure of the department of education and your elected officials. When was the last time there was meaninfull education reform?

No Child Left Behind? Hardly a reform at all.

Why are chartered schools performing SO Much better and are able to close the scoring gap between poor and rich students? They are taking the same ammount of money that public schools do, but they are doing it correctly.

I watched a documentary the other night called Waiting For Superman. It was VERY eye opening, I suggest for anybody who wants some serious education ( pardon the pun) on how the system works to watch it.

~Tenth

I just want to point out that the exact same teachers who are teaching at the charter schools taught before in public schools. You could take practically any teacher from any public school, put them in a charter school and get the same results you're presently getting from charter schools.

There's a reason for that. It's not the teachers. It's the administration of the schools that cause about 60% of it. The parents of SOME of the students there cause another 30% of it. The administration (6 or 7 times the number of them that were there 20 years ago) suck up most of the educational funding and their "duties" diminish so greatly that they have to create things for them to do that usually ends up as more paperwork for the teachers. They need to cut the administrator numbers in half, then in half two more times.

The parents of SOME of the kids ruin it for rest of the population. They don't support their children, they don't expect anything from their children, they abuse the system and teach their children how to do the same. It's not all parents, it's a small percentage of them, but they ruin it for everyone. They send their kids to school to get them out of the house. They don't send them prepared with something as simple as a pencil, they don't come to conferences, they don't expect their kids to do homework, they don't do much of anything. THOSE parents ruin school for the other students, for the other parents, for the teachers, for everyone involved.

It may sound bad, but go ahead and lower the dropout age and let them drop out. The ones who are left will be those who are there to learn whose parents expect them to do what they need to do to be successful. They can create a program that helps those dropouts study for their GED after they figure out they can't get anywhere in life without it. ONLY after they figure that out and are actually willing to put forth some effort.

...while they're at it, cut out all the entitlements so they don't sit back and do nothing and draw more money than their classmates who work hard at a minimum wage job because they actually have a little pride in themselves.

Cut out the entitlements, lower the dropout age, set up a GED program for those dropouts (they can man it with all those extra administrators they do away with). Schools will improve with no other incentives whatsoever. Problem solved.

Originally posted by tothetenthpower
reply to post by DarthMuerte

 

Teacher Unions are the biggest obstacle to a proper education system.

Tenure is also something that is really really absurd to give anybody before they've been there for at least 5 to 10 years. Even then, after a STRENUOUS review of your performance should you receive it.

~Tenth

In this state, you can't get tenure until you have been employed at THAT school district for 5 years. That's the common level for other states as well. Some have it as low as 4, but most are more than that.

First year teachers have to complete an internship with a cooperating teacher, the principal and a university instructor. For the non-tenured teachers (less than 5 years experience), there are monthly formative observations and at least two summative observations per year. There is a required number of professional development hours required for both tenured and non tenured teachers. Even tenured teachers have a summative every year.

It's not the teacher requirements that are the problem. The general public don't know all the obstacles that the teachers must overcome, even those who have tenure. The politicians that DO know what standard the teachers are held to don't share that with the general public because they prefer letting people think teachers "have it easy". They don't.

Additionally, a large number of very talented, very effective teachers LEAVE the profession due to the high stress levels and endless number of hoops to jump through.

The problem is NOT the teachers and it's NOT the teacher unions. Without the unions, the teachers would be at the mercy of the administrators who are promoted beyond their competency levels and the stroke and heart attack level, which is already one of the highest professions for them, would be even higher.


ETA: stated in a "matter of fact" way, not in an attackful or angry way although it may come across that way
I love Tenth, and not arguing, just sharing info that's often not shared with "the public"

reply to post by PurpleChiten


Well, I think the real issue is that if the kids are conditioned to think they should get stuff without working for it, then they don't care about school. I tutor 4th graders in math, and man are those brats unfocused...

We used to make kids mow the whole lawn for 50 cents. That sort of character building is what is missing from todays United States.

Now either the kids don't believe they can do it on their own, or they believe they are entitled to things without working. Whichever it is, we are in trouble.

Originally posted by kawika
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

Well, I think the real issue is that if the kids are conditioned to think they should get stuff without working for it, then they don't care about school. I tutor 4th graders in math, and man are those brats unfocused...

We used to make kids mow the whole lawn for 50 cents. That sort of character building is what is missing from todays United States.

Now either the kids don't believe they can do it on their own, or they believe they are entitled to things without working. Whichever it is, we are in trouble.

I can definitely agree with that

reply to post by PurpleChiten


My Son is in his 2nd year of community college.

No student loans yet.

He works at a Habitat for Humanity store and started offering delivery for 20 bucks because the company does not offer it and he has a little pickup truck. Created his own little business, found a need and filled it. Wow...

reply to post by kawika


Because you are using recycled Rush Limbaugh terms like "Santa Claus" (which you misspelled) I can theorize that you are:

1. a troll
2. lacking in any original thought
3. having fun and being sarcastic

You see, the poor and "uneducated Obama supporters" are not that unlike the "poor, midwest, sheep 'loving', backwards, ignorant, bigoted Republicans".

If you overlay the "red states" with the biggest takers of food stamps you'll soon see a pattern.

I have no further desire to comment on this discussion.

Boy, the trolls and uneducated masses are out in force tonight with their pitchforks, aren't they?

Originally posted by kawika
reply to post by PurpleChiten

 

My Son is in his 2nd year of community college.

No student loans yet.

He works at a Habitat for Humanity store and started offering delivery for 20 bucks because the company does not offer it and he has a little pickup truck. Created his own little business, found a need and filled it. Wow...

Very impressive!! WTG

There actually are a lot of good kids out there, there are just a few that ruin it for everybody
And it's due to their parents 90% of the time

reply to post by tothetenthpower


My mother is a 4th grade teacher of over 25 years. My sister is a Highschool Spanish teacher. I kind of think I understand and know about the "education system".

Parents don't actively participate in their children's education anymore. They simply do not have the time, or care.

When my mother or sister has to call or talk to a parent -- half the time they don't speak English, or even seem to care that their son/daughter is failing.

Parents need to instill in their children that education is important, and good grades matter. If kiddos don't have that foundation at home day one...

Originally posted by MystikMushroom
reply to post by kawika

 

Because you are using recycled Rush Limbaugh terms like "Santa Claus" (which you misspelled) I can theorize that you are:

1. a troll
2. lacking in any original thought
3. having fun and being sarcastic

You see, the poor and "uneducated Obama supporters" are not that unlike the "poor, midwest, sheep 'loving', backwards, ignorant, bigoted Republicans".

If you overlay the "red states" with the biggest takers of food stamps you'll soon see a pattern.

I have no further desire to comment on this discussion.

Boy, the trolls and uneducated masses are out in force tonight with their pitchforks, aren't they?

I do have to say that the vast majority of the people who "play the system" in this area are also very, VERY die-hard republicans. They sit at home all day, drawing their government checks that they lied to get and rant and rave about "those dirty democrats" and tell everybody around them they should vote republican

The biggest "republicans" in this area are the exact same people who are popping pills, drawing welfare or faking their way into a disability check.

reply to post by tothetenthpower


Students have no motivation to learn. Parents at home aren't encouraging or helping students with homework. Parents aren't encouraging good grades. This is a fact. When I was a child, my parents went to PTA meetings -- they CARED about my education. Sadly, unless you come from a family earning a combined 70k a year, these parents don't care.

Each year I see more and more single mothers that would rather be out partying or gossiping about "which baby daddy" they are seeing this weekend.

People in general have become very selfish in the past 20 years. I believe this is due to a lack of resources (money, jobs, ect). Everyone is now "out for themselves" -- and sadly, children get caught in the middle.

I could go on and on about how you are right/wrong about teacher unions. I believe, however, in *my* district (which is one of the largest in the country) the union hasn't negatively impacted the students.

I also work in the same building as the local child support office, and as a cigarette smoker -- I know many of the case workers.

I have a unique perspective into all of this. If you'd like to ask me questions, go ahead.