Crushed silicon boost battery capacity x3, page 1

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Topic started on 7-11-2012 @ 02:30 PM by alomaha

Lithium-ion batteries have shown huge increases in their capacity when silicon crushed into powder is used in them, researchers at Rice University in Houston say. The result could lead to longer-lasting, cheaper rechargeable batteries, aimed especially at electric cars.

www.cbc.ca...
science.slashdot.org...

This sounds really exiting, especially because it is based on same technology and materials in use today. The only difference is crushed silicon anode instead of graphite one. Amazing that such a simple change can triple battery capacity. I just hope that this discovery doesn't end up in oblivion like so many great discoveries...

reply posted on 7-11-2012 @ 03:34 PM by Hellhound604

reply to post by alomaha

hmmm, just think what nice fires a battery having 3x higher capacity will make, lol .... remember all the reports of Li-ion batteries catching fire? Sometimes things are not supressed, the technology is just too unsafe, especially in the USA with their "I'll sue" mentality.....

reply posted on 7-11-2012 @ 04:10 PM by IrVulture

Originally posted by Hellhound604
reply to post by alomaha

hmmm, just think what nice fires a battery having 3x higher capacity will make, lol .... remember all the reports of Li-ion batteries catching fire? Sometimes things are not supressed, the technology is just too unsafe, especially in the USA with their "I'll sue" mentality.....

Even MORE dangerous are the Lithium Polymer batteries...

YouTube Link

reply posted on 7-11-2012 @ 05:08 PM by Hellhound604

reply to post by IrVulture

Yep, the higher the capacity of the battery, the more dangerous they become. I can remember many years ago (30) how much fun we had with the old NiCd batteries from our HP calculators at university. Shorting them with wires, and see how long it took before the wire burned off.....

Later, when I was grown up, one of the qualifiactions we had on our battery packs using Li-ion batteries, was to shoot them.... That was quite spectacular to see how many of them went up into flames, esp, if it happened when they were wet

reply posted on 8-11-2012 @ 06:18 AM by alomaha

Originally posted by Hellhound604
reply to post by alomaha

hmmm, just think what nice fires a battery having 3x higher capacity will make, lol .... remember all the reports of Li-ion batteries catching fire? Sometimes things are not supressed, the technology is just too unsafe, especially in the USA with their "I'll sue" mentality.....

I'm really curious what would be your solution? To go back to horses and carriages? Stop using our phones and laptops because they already have li-ion batteries inside? I mean, I really don't understand where do you see solution? Internal combustion vehicles are also very dangerous but I guess you probably use it?

reply posted on 8-11-2012 @ 11:52 AM by fourthmeal

Originally posted by IrVulture

Originally posted by Hellhound604
reply to post by alomaha

hmmm, just think what nice fires a battery having 3x higher capacity will make, lol .... remember all the reports of Li-ion batteries catching fire? Sometimes things are not supressed, the technology is just too unsafe, especially in the USA with their "I'll sue" mentality.....

Even MORE dangerous are the Lithium Polymer batteries...

YouTube Link

As dangerous as they are, they are the battery of choice in RC cars due to their light weight, high output, quick charging, and excellent mAh capacity.

Fires are a thing though, Prius and Fisker cars got caught up in the Sandy flood and caught fire. That's a definite issue.

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 02:05 PM by Dashdragon

Originally posted by alomaha

Originally posted by Hellhound604
reply to post by alomaha

hmmm, just think what nice fires a battery having 3x higher capacity will make, lol .... remember all the reports of Li-ion batteries catching fire? Sometimes things are not supressed, the technology is just too unsafe, especially in the USA with their "I'll sue" mentality.....

I'm really curious what would be your solution? To go back to horses and carriages? Stop using our phones and laptops because they already have li-ion batteries inside? I mean, I really don't understand where do you see solution? Internal combustion vehicles are also very dangerous but I guess you probably use it?

I think it was more a statement of them holding off with it until it was made safer for everyday use and not whatever anti-improvement statement you might have thought they were making.

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 04:00 PM by Hellhound604

yes, we all agree, it would be nice to have a small little battery that can supply all your energy needs, but you just need to do the sums to see how much energy is packed in that little battery. If anything internal goes wrong (in Li-ion and polymer batteries) crystals form on the electrodes, perforating the dielectricum, and then all that current goes through that short, causing a fire, or even an explosion. Externally you have electronics limiting the current, but internally you don't have it. Just think, you have a battery that can supply, say 1A for 100 hours of normal use. If you don't have current limitations on it, you can draw 10A for 10 hours, or 100A for 1 hour. Scale that to minutes, and you get that that same battery can supply 1000A for 6 minutes, and so on. do you know how thick a conductor must be to carry 1000A without melting? And that is the danger with high capacity batteries.. (yes, the internal resistance of the battery comes into the calculations too, but normally you want a battery in which the output voltage doesn't drop if you suddenly draw a lot of current for a couple of milliseconds from it.)

That is the long and the short of it. With Li-based batteries it is even worse. Lithium reacts violently with oxygen. The moment the battery gets perforated because of the short, the Lithium itself reacts with the oxygen in the air, causing an even larger fire.

Sometimes the technology is there, but it is just not safe enough to use in everyday situations. You wouldn't like it if you have a cellphone in your pocket that lasts 2 years on a single battery charge, and you are involved in a mishap, and the battery gets damaged, and explodes, thereby killing you.

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 05:00 PM by fourthmeal

Making a mountain out of a molehill, don't you think?

Do you know how big of an explosion you'll have when 15-25 gallons of gasoline go up all at once? Yet that "bomb" is what you're driving to and from work every day, most likely. A battery pack is nothing more than a form of energy storage, just like gasoline. Gas, after some safety measures, has proven to be safe enough for people not to fear a rear end collision or something. But things still happen. People still die.

In the RC world, LiPo is the weapon of choice and will be (until this new stuff comes out, and I promise you R/C will want a taste of it as soon as humanly possible) risk or not.

We use LiPo bags (if we're thinking of safety), consider an entire car battery pack could feasibly be contained in something like that, and contain the fire and give time for safe exit, while still possibly extinguishing the fire completely.

IMO the sooner this tech gets here, the better. Sensors and good cases can provide the safety measures, along with proper battery building procedures. No different than a gas powered vehicle, IMO.

reply posted on 9-11-2012 @ 07:01 PM by Hellhound604

reply to post by fourthmeal

yes, until the first cellphone with the new batteries catches fire on an airplane, and the plane crashes into a skyscraper or into a school......

Heck, if you don't care about safety, well, you can have a small little nuclear reactor to power your car, quite safely, until you are in a massive collision, lol....

As far as good battery-protection goes. You know most batteries comes from China, and are just repackaged by the US or EU manufacturers. I can't tell you how much problems we've had with batteries (from a manufacturer in the EU) had, until we discovered that they source the cells from a plant in China. Problem is, you buy a "Proudly made in the USA"-battery pack, thinking that it adheres to safety regulations, but guess what, the cells inside are made by child labour in a below-the belt factory, so all the safety stamps on that battery pack means absolutely nothing. If you want to have safe batteries, you have to install the same QA as what is used on avionic equipment, where every part of the equipment can be backtraced exactly where it comes from, and that makes it very, very expensive.

edit on 9/11/2012 by Hellhound604 because: (no reason given)

reply posted on 12-11-2012 @ 11:35 AM by fourthmeal

Originally posted by Hellhound604
reply to post by fourthmeal

yes, until the first cellphone with the new batteries catches fire on an airplane, and the plane crashes into a skyscraper or into a school......

Heck, if you don't care about safety, well, you can have a small little nuclear reactor to power your car, quite safely, until you are in a massive collision, lol....

As far as good battery-protection goes. You know most batteries comes from China, and are just repackaged by the US or EU manufacturers. I can't tell you how much problems we've had with batteries (from a manufacturer in the EU) had, until we discovered that they source the cells from a plant in China. Problem is, you buy a "Proudly made in the USA"-battery pack, thinking that it adheres to safety regulations, but guess what, the cells inside are made by child labour in a below-the belt factory, so all the safety stamps on that battery pack means absolutely nothing. If you want to have safe batteries, you have to install the same QA as what is used on avionic equipment, where every part of the equipment can be backtraced exactly where it comes from, and that makes it very, very expensive.

edit on 9/11/2012 by Hellhound604 because: (no reason given)

LOL did you seriously just equate a battery fire to a plane smacking a building? How do you protect against the unthinkable?

Let me put it this way: You wouldn't be in a mobile conveyance like the car if we didn't' take some risks. There WAS a smear campaign against the automobile back in the 1900's. Thing is, convenience won. Safety came after, and slowly.

reply posted on 13-11-2012 @ 12:18 PM by Hellhound604

reply to post by fourthmeal

Why do you think Li-ION batteries are on the dangerous goods list of IATA? There are a LOT of cases where Li-ion or Li-Polymer batteries caught fire in cargo.

For air transport, specific quantity limits apply to the net weight of lithium batteries in a package. The maximum net weight of lithium batteries per package for Cargo Aircraft Only is 35 kg.

I recommend you read the IATA guidelines re Lithium-based batteries here :
Lithium Battery Guidance Document