My Plea to the Republican Party!

reply to post by MDDoxs

Short answer is yes. I think a separation is best now. The US is already being destroyed. Perhaps some of us can retain our freedom and values if the country divides according to it's differing philosophies.

IMO, and as a democrat, I think the republican party should go the liberterian direction. If they continue with the conservative social policies, these type of elections will continue. Liberterians are direct opposites of democrats, economically.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by MDDoxs

 

Short answer is yes. I think a separation is best now. The US is already being destroyed. Perhaps some of us can retain our freedom and values if the country divides according to it's differing philosophies.

Wouldn’t the reason that you separate, also be used as justification for conflict as well, if this separation was to occur.

Do you want the US to become the next Arab spring, where bitter and ancient rivalries perpetuate constant violence and conflict? As a US citizen you must feel some type of loyalty to your nation and its people?

Strength through Unity. That is what makes the US strong. Regardless of what you unite over (or how moral it is ), it keeps the nation strong.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by MDDoxs

 

Short answer is yes. I think a separation is best now. The US is already being destroyed. Perhaps some of us can retain our freedom and values if the country divides according to it's differing philosophies.

How do you propose separation when neighbors living side-by-side across the entire country have polar opposite political views? Are you suggesting that 150,000,000 people uproot and move to their designated territories? That is not feasible. You know what is feasible? Compromise.

reply to post by micmerci

So, basically you are asking Republicans to not be true traditional Republicans anymore. Biblical values, pro-life, sanctity of marriage are stalwart Republican platform. Asking Republicans to put these issues aside is asking them not not be true to themselves. If you give yourself the label Republican, then you should stand on the platform that it puts forth- win or lose. To Thine own Self be true! Compromising on basic principles is weak. If people do not hold those values then they will affiliate with a party that holds their values.

I don't see him saying that. I see him saying they should be even MORE true to their values, and realize their party has been misled into believing more legislation, and more government control is a Republican value.

Peeking into the bedroom at sexual orientation, and passing more and more restrictive laws are not Conservative Values. I actually agree with much of the Pro-life platform, but you can't have zealots preaching it, you have to justify the sanctity of life, and allow for the obvious exceptions, and still maintain government as small and unintrusive as possible.

Republican values are not "Biblical" values. They are CONSERVATIVE values, which means small, centralized government, Constitutional Authority over all else, state and individual rights, etc.

It is you that are misled. If the Republican Party has become a Christian Party, then it is no wonder it is dead in the water. This country was built upon religious freedom! Good conservative morals, and Christian beliefs should go hand in hand, but when there is a difference, the Constitution should reign as the supreme law of the land, not the Bible.

Originally posted by MDDoxs

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by MDDoxs

 

Short answer is yes. I think a separation is best now. The US is already being destroyed. Perhaps some of us can retain our freedom and values if the country divides according to it's differing philosophies.

Wouldn’t the reason that you separate, also be used as justification for conflict as well, if this separation was to occur.

Do you want the US to become the next Arab spring, where bitter and ancient rivalries perpetuate constant violence and conflict? As a US citizen you must feel some type of loyalty to your nation and its people?

Strength through Unity. That is what makes the US strong. Regardless of what you unite over (or how moral it is

), it keeps the nation strong.

There is no unity. Water and fire cannot unify. Either the water will douse the fire or the fire will boil away the water. Thus statists and individualists also can not unify. Their desires are antithetical to each other.
If we try to remain as one nation, conflict is inevitable. As statists try to enforce their liberty killing policies, conflict will erupt. Why not just agree to disagree and peacefully go our separate ways?

Originally posted by LeatherNLace

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
reply to post by MDDoxs

 

Short answer is yes. I think a separation is best now. The US is already being destroyed. Perhaps some of us can retain our freedom and values if the country divides according to it's differing philosophies.

How do you propose separation when neighbors living side-by-side across the entire country have polar opposite political views? Are you suggesting that 150,000,000 people uproot and move to their designated territories? That is not feasible. You know what is feasible? Compromise.

There is no workable compromise. How do you compromise between "leave me alone" and "comply or else"?

I wish the whole republican party had the same mindset as the OP.

The party is just VERY unlikeable, especially to the youth of the nation. They are still hating on gay people in the year 2012 and making racist Obama jokes. It's like grow up already.

reply to post by DarthMuerte


The US was originally founded under such conditions. What makes today so bad in comparison to when the founding fathers decided to draw up the constitution and elect a leader.

reply to post by DarthMuerte

There is no unity. Water and fire cannot unify. Either the water will douse the fire or the fire will boil away the water. Thus statists and individualists also can not unify. Their desires are antithetical to each other.

I hate to break it to you but you live in a state. The constitution is a statist document.

Soooooooooooooo.......

Do you want to destroy the constitution or what?

Originally posted by micmerci

So, basically you are asking Republicans to not be true traditional Republicans anymore. Biblical values, pro-life, sanctity of marriage are stalwart Republican platform. Asking Republicans to put these issues aside is asking them not not be true to themselves. If you give yourself the label Republican, then you should stand on the platform that it puts forth- win or lose. To Thine own Self be true! Compromising on basic principles is weak. If people do not hold those values then they will affiliate with a party that holds their values.

What you allow, you encourage.

Then the GOP will never win an election again.

If yesterday was anything. It was a referendum on religious zealotry.

reply to post by DarthMuerte

IMO, the nation has shown that it is irretrievably divided. It is time to split the current US into at least two different nations. One with the statist paradigm and one with the individualist, freedom loving paradigm. The two philosophies are antithetical to each other. You cannot be a freedom loving statist and neither can you be a nanny state loving individualist. The two paradigms cannot coexist.

You tried that already with the civil war. That didn't work out too well for y'all either.

No, dividing the nation and separating out people who don't fit your world view isn't the solution, it's fascism. It didn't work out well for Hitler, and it won't work out well for the ones on the extreme right that think this same way.

Sorry, but it's time to adapt or die. The GOP's ideology is what needs to change, not the rest of the nation, that's part and parcel the problem with the GOP to begin with. The total and complete lack of understanding the difference between social conservatism, and fiscal conservatism.

reply to post by micmerci

So, basically you are asking Republicans to not be true traditional Republicans anymore. Biblical values, pro-life, sanctity of marriage are stalwart Republican platform

No they aren't..... What a narrow mindset...this is why the Democratic party is thriving right now. They accept everyone...you can be atheist, catholic, Muslim, be gay, straight, white, black....it doesn't matter.

Take some notes.

Social conservatism is dead. It is 2012.

reply to post by DarthMuerte


The State is absolutely necessary. We are all Statists. Without the centralized Federal Government, and Constitutional Authority, we become Europe. Each state is inefficient on its own. Even Texas would have struggles if it were left to be independent. We need the state, and we all want the state.

We just want it to be as small and unintrusive as possible. We want some Federal Guidelines like weights and standards, interstate highways, strong military, land and water conservation, etc.

The folks that tout state and individual rights are fine with the state existing, but the state doesn't need to interfere in the bedroom, and the Interstate Commerce Clause has been entirely misused and abused as an excuse to grow the government.

The two sides can get along, it isn't that hard.

reply to post by sheepslayer247


Well said, as an independent I share beliefs with both party's But I fear that the current Republican format is beyond anything I can support, and the Democrats have become too wimpy letting the GOP just roll over them.Therefore I had no choice but to go independent.
I'm for the government keeping its hands off our rights, as well as leaving our guns alone.But I think ALL should pay they're fair share of taxes. Welfare programs should be for the needy,but not the lazy.More funding for schools to have an educated workforce.Less funding for being the 911 of the world.No more wars unless we are attacked!
Live and let live. stop trying to tell people what they can and can't do in they're personal lives.I don't care what your religion says,you can't make people go to your church,so why should you be able to force them in your beliefs?
Mainly I think that irrespective of which party controls what,they all need to grow up and learn to play fair.Is the welfare of the country of so little importance to parties that they are unwilling to compromise and get solutions? Apparently so .They hang on to party rhetoric and don't do they're jobs of running the country,and the voters sent them right back to do it again! Amazing.

Originally posted by DarthMuerte
There is no workable compromise. How do you compromise between "leave me alone" and "comply or else"?

I think you went to sleep and woke up in the wrong country. This is the Unites States of America. Where compromise has been the name of the game; dating back to the framers of the Constitution, if not earlier.

How about a little bit more of "leave me alone" and a bit more acceptance of compliance. If that is not good enough for you, then I'm afraid you have an angry, miserable life ahead of you; because you will never get that utopia you desire. None of us will ever see our personal utopia come to realization. That is just a fact of life.

Originally posted by beezzer
reply to post by sheepslayer247

 

Time to start many things.

Re-energize the Tea Party

I think they are the main reason Obama was reelected. They are being seen as America's Taliban.

Introduce Libertarian people into mainstream NOW

Excellent idea.

Start an anti-Lobby Lobby

This one is a must no matter which side of the isle you are on. But let's call it what it is Bribery

I have my work cut out for me.

I truly believe that you will have plenty of help.

Originally posted by MDDoxs
reply to post by DarthMuerte

 

The US was originally founded under such conditions. What makes today so bad in comparison to when the founding fathers decided to draw up the constitution and elect a leader.

Loss of individual power to the federal government. The federal government was given a very short list of things it was allowed to do. That list has been stretched and mangled beyond all reason. The federal government has also run roughshod over states rights. This started when the states lost their representation in the federal government. Senators were not supposed to represent the "people". They were to represent the voice of the several states. When the states lost their representation, the erosion of their power began to now states have little more relevance than counties do. States were supposed to be sovereign in and of themselves. They were not to be appendages of a bloated federal bureaucracy. Erosion of individual freedoms began at the beginning of the 20th century and accelerated when fdr took power. Since then, the assault on the individual has been non-stop and the statist agenda is now almost completely implemented. Liberals have consistently voted us into slavery. A government big enough to give you everything is big enough to take it all away.

reply to post by Trustfund


Really? Those things that I listed are not Republican stances? So all these candidates have not been pushing pro-life, sanctity of marriage platforms? That's news to me. If you would have read my post carefully you would have seen that I did not reference a personal stance on any of these issues. I just merely stated what has been obvious for decades and that is that the Republican candidates have been pushing Judeo-Christian values forever.

So I don't think I need to take notes.

reply to post by BritofTexas

I think they are the main reason Obama was reelected. They are being seen as America's Taliban.

Only because they got hi-jacked by GOP leadership and Religious fanatics.

The 2008 to 2010 Tea Party was a sight to behold! It was somewhat bi-partisan, it was grass roots, it was organic and unorganized and pulpous and active and growing! Then after the 2010 successes, it got entirely hijacked and driven into the religious right where the GOP took the reigns and milked the life out of it, with the culmination being Paul Ryan as the VP choice, even though he brought no new votes and lost them a seat in the Congress.

Re-energizing the real party, that included Libertarians, and Blue Dog Democrats, and non-religious folks could save the GOP, but it will have to be the organic movement driving the bus, not the other way around.