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Obama Wins - Layoffs Starting

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posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 09:15 AM
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Originally posted by macman
reply to post by jimmyx
 


His Pro Business policies, like lower Taxes and 0bamacare repeal would have created better economic conditions for businesses.

This is not new, and to ask this question over and over again just shows ignorance.

When the Govt has an anti business stance, business will retract.
Not rocket science.



There's NO EVIDENCE (and there have been studies done) that Obamacare is in any way anti-business. There's plenty of evidence that the right lies about it, and their waterboys carry the message around the internet without checking the facts though... your post is a great example.




posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 09:20 AM
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Originally posted by macman
reply to post by jimmyx
 


His Pro Business policies, like lower Taxes and 0bamacare repeal would have created better economic conditions for businesses.

This is not new, and to ask this question over and over again just shows ignorance.

When the Govt has an anti business stance, business will retract.
Not rocket science.



government is not created, nor should it answer to, only business or wealth. government is answerable to all the people of that country....if you don't like government, then you want a monarch, dictator, or an oligrachy. governments throughout history has been set up to represent all of the people, not just a few wealthy.
regulating business is not anti-business, it is anti-corruption. the financial meltdown in this country in 08' resulted from a lack of strong regulation, not an overabundance of it.
one other ignorant thing i must ask, please show a detailed relationship between lower taxes on the wealthy in america, resulting in prosperity for all americans in general.
edit on 9-11-2012 by jimmyx because: spell



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 09:27 AM
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reply to post by CAMale
 


but if there's no economic certainty, and when taxes are raised on job creators, they will adjust accordingly to maximize their profits which will include layoffs, raising prices, and/or cutting salaries/benefits.

Your big flaw is you're not taking into account that we're human beings. On paper, Obamacare sounds great. (allowing people access to health care that had no access before, "forcing" employers to offer insurance to their employees.)

but in reality, like it has already happened before in Hawaii and Maine, it won't play out as intended.

1. The fine to employers not offering health coverage is far cheaper than providing coverage. So...do the math

2. The healthy, mostly the young, won't buy in until they get sick. The "tax" of not having health insurance is not as expensive as having insurance. And since the you now can't be denied insurance, there's no reason to do so. People not paying into the system can get full coverage as soon as they get sick.

3. There's a waiver in the health care bill stating no one will be criminally charged if they don't pay the tax for not having health insurance. (this sounds to weird to me if anyone has more information on this)


So basically, Obamacare is nothing but a well-intentioned program that leaves it self wide open to being taken advantage of. It relies on "people doing the right thing just because it's the right thing to do - WHILE no one is looking."

What do you think will happen? I don't understand why this is ignored. I guess because good intentions drown out common sense.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 09:31 AM
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Originally posted by longlostbrother

Originally posted by macman
reply to post by jimmyx
 


His Pro Business policies, like lower Taxes and 0bamacare repeal would have created better economic conditions for businesses.

This is not new, and to ask this question over and over again just shows ignorance.

When the Govt has an anti business stance, business will retract.
Not rocket science.



There's NO EVIDENCE (and there have been studies done) that Obamacare is in any way anti-business. There's plenty of evidence that the right lies about it, and their waterboys carry the message around the internet without checking the facts though... your post is a great example.


Oh, no evidence huh? And all the companies laying people off this week is just fiction.
I will take the word of several hundred companies, business planers and CPAs over a new ATS member.
Go bury your head in the sand somewhere else.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 09:33 AM
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Originally posted by TheCounselor
reply to post by Indigo5
 


I thought "Dear Leader" was in reference to Mao Tze Tung. "Der Fuhrer" is reference to Hitler.

My better half works for a company that has about ten people. The owner/boss doesn't rake in much more than the other employees, due to trying to keep the business open.
There is the possibility of some of the employees being cut down to 29 hours a week, so the insurance mess won't come into play, but I don't know much about Obamacare. From what I understand, all full time employees must be covered.


50 or more employees is the cut off. So no...there is not a possibility that a 10 person company would be required to provide insurance. As for companies with 50 or more...there is a strong disconnect between the rhetoric from the right and reality. The industry that would be most vulnerable to Obamacare being an expense is the Hotel and Restuarant industry which tends to emply large numbers of folks at low wages with little benefits aka health insurance. So when looking at the real world impact it would make sense to begin with the industry that is most vulnerable and would show the largest impact. The hotel and restuarant industry of course fought Obamacare and there is of course a tonnage of articles and fear mongering with regards to Obamacare comming from that industry, BUT when actual hard numbers are examined...only a small minority of those players are actually cutting workers hours to part-itme to see if it effects costs...AND....when those orgs larger financials are examined the trend of moving workers to part time is steady pre and post Obamacare...AND the majority of the players in the hotel and restuarant industry are NOT cutting hours and looking to profit from Obamacare by hiring talent from those that are cutting benefits. You have to scrape and dif into actual finance and deeper stories than the sexy headlines Obamacare causes layoffs, but reality is there for anyone willing to dig and think. This is one of those things where 4 years from now everyone will have forgotten all the incorrect predictions about Obamacare.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 09:38 AM
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Originally posted by macman

Oh, no evidence huh? And all the companies laying people off this week is just fiction.
I will take the word of several hundred companies, business planers and CPAs over a new ATS member.
Go bury your head in the sand somewhere else.


Strange how the layoffs last week, last month weren't news...but the layoffs this week are an Obama re-election crisis?

False correlation...anecdotal fallacy...etc. etc. whatever it takes to feel a little better after a stinging loss.

But just like Nate Silver's perfect predictions which the right unanimously called BS, I choose to follow the actual stats, numbers, facts...rather than consider twitter posts and ATS stories as facts.

Obamacare is good for the country, good for the markets, good for business, good for everyone...not perfect, but a vast improvement and it's not going away. Progress...or at least taking a small step toward the modern world.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 09:39 AM
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Originally posted by jimmyx


government is not created, nor should it answer to, only business or wealth. government is answerable to all the people of that country

While that is correct, you failed to add that the current Admin and Fed Govt is set up for handouts and freebies to the masses. SO, while they are becoming anti business, they are becoming anti people as they hook large amounts of the citizens to the welfare drug.
Both are anti American.




Originally posted by jimmyx
....if you don't like government, then you want a monarch, dictator, or an oligrachy. governments throughout history has been set up to represent all of the people, not just a few wealthy.

This old retort?
The Govt as it is now is against the individual and more about the collective.
No, I want the Govt that was created by the original documents. Not the Govt of today that has be bastardized into what Progressives have pushed it into.




Originally posted by jimmyx
regulating business is not anti-business, it is anti-corruption. the financial meltdown in this country in 08' resulted from a lack of strong regulation, not an overabundance of it.

The Govt today is Anti Business. You are trying to blur the lines between banking regulations with regular business.
No, the meltdown was due to people investing in nothing viable.
The strong regulations brought us the housing meltdown. You know, the strong regulations of loaning to anyone regardless of finances.




Originally posted by jimmyx
one other ignorant thing i must ask, please show a detailed relationship between lower taxes on the wealthy in america, resulting in prosperity for all americans in general.

Another attack on the "evil rich people". Oh good hell.
When business thrives, the economy is good.
But, disregard the whole thing about companies laying people off due to the election results, because they see what is coming for business.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 09:42 AM
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Originally posted by Indigo5


Strange how the layoffs last week, last month weren't news...but the layoffs this week are an Obama re-election crisis?

They weren't news because the MSM has been defending 0bama. Thanks for that give-me.


Originally posted by Indigo5
False correlation...anecdotal fallacy...etc. etc. whatever it takes to feel a little better after a stinging loss.

But just like Nate Silver's perfect predictions which the right unanimously called BS, I choose to follow the actual stats, numbers, facts...rather than consider twitter posts and ATS stories as facts.

What does Nate Silver have to do with mass layoffs? Are you name dropping just to name drop?



Originally posted by Indigo5
Obamacare is good for the country, good for the markets, good for business, good for everyone...not perfect, but a vast improvement and it's not going away. Progress...or at least taking a small step toward the modern world.


That is why we are at what, 12% real unemployment and companies are laying people off.
Yeah, really good, if it is backwards Friday.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 10:23 AM
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Originally posted by peck420

Originally posted by jtma508
reply to post by MsAphrodite
 


Gee. Well I must be stupid then. As must my employer. They just keep expanding and hiring quarter-on-quarter. I don't know how we're managing to stay in business. Our CFO must be a fool.


Yup, because the single enterprise you work for is indicative of the market as a whole.


Every industry is different, and, currently, most industries are not doing well.



Couldnt this model be used in the op then as in this is also a single enterprise. Do we need a poll from business owners or retailers about who is spending and who is not spending. I dont see that most industries are not doing well. Where do you get that from. Figures? Using words like most is dangerous as it implies much more than what is really happening. Some industries are not doing well is more accurate a statement. Not Most industries. You dont have a clear economic picture if you believe that.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 10:24 AM
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reply to post by Indigo5
 


When it comes to President Obama this site is always reality free.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 10:28 AM
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I think I'm beginning to see the genius in Oboma's plan. Don't we all dream of not having to work for a living? Well we're not going to have to anymore, because none of us are going to have a job.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by MsAphrodite
 


We dont have record unemployment right now.
That record was reached in Nov of 1982 when unemployment went to 10.8% That was under the guardienship of the famous Ronald Regan.

www.tradingeconomics.com...



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 10:33 AM
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reply to post by karen61560
 


Yeah, all the factory's that moved to China are doing great.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 10:37 AM
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reply to post by macman
 


If "the government" is truly set up to hand out free candy to the masses, why did 66.99% of the economic capacity of the US, represented by total percentage of GDP on a per state basis just vote for Obama and --presumably -- Obamacare?



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 10:38 AM
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Business owners run their businesses to make money.

They have to make decisions all the time about expansion and contraction of their businesses. When they are making money and have more business, they expand. When business declines, they lay people off.

It's really rather simple. I don't think that businesses like to lay people off. I know of several businesses that would try very hard to keep their people when work dried up. Now , some of those same businesses have let a lot of people go because they just are not getting enough work in to justify keeping the people that they had.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 10:39 AM
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Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
reply to post by macman
 


If "the government" is truly set up to hand out free candy to the masses, why did 66.99% of the economic capacity of the US, represented by total percentage of GDP on a per state basis just vote for Obama and --presumably -- Obamacare?



Wait, is your statement tongue in cheek?
Because voting for 0bama and 0bamacare is a vote for free stuff.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 10:41 AM
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Originally posted by mrnotobc
I think I'm beginning to see the genius in Oboma's plan. Don't we all dream of not having to work for a living? Well we're not going to have to anymore, because none of us are going to have a job.


so, obama wants to not have anyone work for a living, please keep thinking this way, and the republican party will become an afterthought



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 10:41 AM
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reply to post by macman
 


So -- the coalition representing 2/3 of the money just voted to pay itself with "free stuff" it has to pay for through its own economic activity? That seems logical to you?
edit on 9-11-2012 by 0zzymand0s because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 10:43 AM
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Originally posted by jimmyx

Originally posted by mrnotobc
I think I'm beginning to see the genius in Oboma's plan. Don't we all dream of not having to work for a living? Well we're not going to have to anymore, because none of us are going to have a job.


so, obama wants to not have anyone work for a living, please keep thinking this way, and the republican party will become an afterthought


With his Welfare state and Mindset for the masses, yes, I do believe that the Rep party is done for.
They can't win against a party that pushed to provided everything for everyone.



posted on Nov, 9 2012 @ 10:45 AM
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reply to post by peck420
 


That is not how the gas price is arrived at but OK think like that.




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