Obama Wins - Layoffs Starting

reply to post by defcon5


Absolutely. A lot of what is labeled "Made in america", is in reality made in china, and assembled in america. That crap has got to stop.

reply to post by defcon5


I can't do all the "fancy" quoting from this useless browser, but I'll reply to a couple of your statements. Though your reply seems to be acting as though I'm being disrespectful towards you or something, which I don't get. It's respectfull debate between you and I in those few posts as far as I can tell. You seem to have a brain at least and I wasn't regarding you like the idiot I honestly consider alot of the people who post in threads like these....... If for no other reason than I love Ghostbusters. (excited they're finally putting real work into a 3rd movie now BTW). Now onto my replies.

1) I didn't paint you as anything other than you sounding like you're pro-Obama. Which in all honesty you DO sound like since you seem to be taking the blame of him and his administration when the majority of the blame lies squarely on them. You can't just blame all of his policies on the NWO because it's a convenient scapegoat to point at (which is nothing to point at really because if they exist, they aren't a body that can be held accountable) on a conspiracy site. I just noticed you were a mod, so sorry dude, but you guys let this place go political (big mistake), so you gotta be a little more realistic now. Especially in a thread like this

2) Obama and the democrats, while they had full government control, and power to pass any tax legislation they saw fit....did NOTHING. That's on them. And your ire on this issue should be directed in their direction, not a Wal-Mart just because they want to make as much money as possible. When there are holes in tax code, anyone would take them if they're eligible to do so.

3) Wal-Mart is not paying people an unlivable wage as far as I see. At the very least they have to get minimum wage....which is over $8 and hour now, isn't it? It's certainly alot more than I'm making being unemployed for over 2 years under Obama, and being ineligible to get any actual money from the gov since I'm white, I'm just allowed $200/month in EBT to feed 2 people. They all seem to have vehicles, which I don't since I had to sell mine to keep a roof over my head. They mostly have apartments, which I only have because my landlord is a good person helping me out. And they're all FAT....which means they're eating ALOT better than me. Alot of them also seem to smoke alot of pot, which I can no longer afford anymore. So stop worrying about how much Wal-Mart employees are getting paid, because they all seem to be doing alright. ANd BTW, most of them DO seem to actually have medical which a couple employees told me when I happened to ask if they were hiring at checkout a couple times. They mentioned having good benifits, both medical and dental, and I didn't even ask about that.

And lastly, I don't have "a company". I've been unemployed for a LONG time, can't find work even though I've applied for dozens, and now under Obama's 2nd term, companies are going to be hiring even LESS. That is yet another blame that falls directly on Obama's head....not the "NWO". You seem like a thinking man with actual views, not just spouting brainwashed propaganda. So blame the people actually responsible for these issues....ones that can at least be held accountable anyway. And those people are Obama, his administration, and the majority of democrats/liberals.

Being unemployed, I don't know about layoffs and such, I do know, however, that there actually seem to be no jobs in my area at least. Going to have to bite the bullet and try for a McJob now, as every other option has been tried. None of the plastics factories are hiring, casinos won't call back, auto shops are on the verge of going under. Car dealerships aren't moving stock, even the bowling alley is barely paying the bills. So, I don't buy it when they say that unemployment is actually down. I haven't been able to find a job since I got out of the Navy in March, and now my savings is down to double digit numbers, haven't even been called back. So, tomorrow, I will have to try the last option of McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's, and Arby's, and hope that I get hired.

3) Wal-Mart is not paying people an unlivable wage as far as I see. At the very least they have to get minimum wage....which is over $8 and hour now, isn't it? It's certainly alot more than I'm making being unemployed for over 2 years under Obama, and being ineligible to get any actual money from the gov since I'm white, I'm just allowed $200/month in EBT to feed 2 people.

Right now minimum wage is $1256.67/ month, or $15080.00/year.
...And that's before you pay out your taxes, social security, etc.
No one can afford to live on that amount of money, I don't care where you live, its unrealistic.
Just a cheap one bedroom apartment will cost you more then half of that, let alone utilities, food, and other basic expenses. Stuff like healthcare, averaging around $200 per person, is out of the reach of these folks.

So who's fault is that?
Is it the person who is working that job?
Is it the cheap corporation that is paying those unrealistic wages?
Or is it the government who is only doing what the corporations lobby for?

Living on unemployment you should average $1320/month...
What motivation is there to work when someone can make more money 'riding the system' with these unrealistic payment levels?

When a corporation pays out this level, they know that us taxpayer have to 'pick up the slack', which is basically handing them free money that they do not deserve and did not earn. They provided no 'service' for that money, nor did they generate any 'goods'. Then they use all sorts of 'trickery' to ensure that they pay a smaller percentage of taxes then the average low income citizen does. Again, this is nothing short of theft no matter what 'legal' excuse they want to use to say its not.

reply to post by dave_welch


That sucks man, good luck. I have no idea about now, but 13 years ago Wendy's was superior of the bunch. For food, mcd and bk gave a measly 10% discount to employees, and only at their break while working. Got 50% discount whenever working at wendy's, plus those of use that worked till midnight got to take home whatever was left for free, better than tossing it into the dumpster.

Originally posted by defcon5

3) Wal-Mart is not paying people an unlivable wage as far as I see. At the very least they have to get minimum wage....which is over $8 and hour now, isn't it? It's certainly alot more than I'm making being unemployed for over 2 years under Obama, and being ineligible to get any actual money from the gov since I'm white, I'm just allowed $200/month in EBT to feed 2 people.

Right now minimum wage is $1256.67/ month, or $15080.00/year.
...And that's before you pay out your taxes, social security, etc.
No one can afford to live on that amount of money, I don't care where you live, its unrealistic.
Just a cheap one bedroom apartment will cost you more then half of that, let alone utilities, food, and other basic expenses. Stuff like healthcare, averaging around $200 per person, is out of the reach of these folks.

So who's fault is that?
Is it the person who is working that job?
Is it the cheap corporation that is paying those unrealistic wages?
Or is it the government who is only doing what the corporations lobby for?

Living on unemployment you should average $1320/month...
What motivation is there to work when someone can make more money 'riding the system' with these unrealistic payment levels?

When a corporation pays out this level, they know that us taxpayer have to 'pick up the slack', which is basically handing them free money that they do not deserve and did not earn. They provided no 'service' for that money, nor did they generate any 'goods'. Then they use all sorts of 'trickery' to ensure that they pay a smaller percentage of taxes then the average low income citizen does. Again, this is nothing short of theft no matter what 'legal' excuse they want to use to say its not.

Unemployment at that rate lasts a lot less than 12 months.

You can't survive long-term on unemployment in the US.

As for Wal-Mart. Wal-Mart preys on US consumers short-sightedness. It's the largest grocery store and retail chain in America. I watched it destroy town after town, but no one cared, because hey, cheap toilet paper.

Appealing to people to care about shop workers is a losing battle.

America is completely addicted to cheap crap - and America can't afford to make cheap crap.

Good luck with that model...

Originally posted by dave_welch
Being unemployed, I don't know about layoffs and such, I do know, however, that there actually seem to be no jobs in my area at least. Going to have to bite the bullet and try for a McJob now, as every other option has been tried. None of the plastics factories are hiring, casinos won't call back, auto shops are on the verge of going under. Car dealerships aren't moving stock, even the bowling alley is barely paying the bills. So, I don't buy it when they say that unemployment is actually down. I haven't been able to find a job since I got out of the Navy in March, and now my savings is down to double digit numbers, haven't even been called back. So, tomorrow, I will have to try the last option of McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy's, and Arby's, and hope that I get hired.

Anecdotal evidence isn't really very useful.

The way the US economy tends to work is that one area declines while another booms... generally speaking... e.g. the wealth generated by the tech bubble didn't create thousands of jobs in Detroit.

If you want a better job, you might have to move to an area that has more jobs going... that's just the nature of the US.

Well, I just decided to look up Wal-Mart starting pays and pay rates for various employees.

The lowest pay rate starts at $8.20 an hour.
Sales associates start at $9.30 and hour.
60 cent raise after 3 months for all
$1.10 raise for department manager
50 cent raise annually for all
store managers get 80-110K a year
asst managers get 43-63k a year
Customer service reps get $10-12 an hour

The average non-manager employee there over a year make 10-12 and hour

This was just from one of the first (usefull) link on a google search, I didn't even look into benefits yet. And mind you, the link was 2 years old. I would say you are GROSSLY misinformed about walmart employees being paid "unlivable wages". No wonder they're all so FAT. They're making pretty damned good money.

I'm desperate for work. I may just have to go apply there today.

Originally posted by Larry L
Though your reply seems to be acting as though I'm being disrespectful towards you or something, which I don't get.

I don't think your being disrespectful, but what you did say makes it sound like you are basing your opinion of my opinion on who I support. The problem is that there is no one 'formula' as to what I, or many others, believe or why.

Originally posted by Larry L
If for no other reason than I love Ghostbusters. (excited they're finally putting real work into a 3rd movie now BTW).

That will be great if they can get Murray to agree to allow it to be done. I cannot say that I blame him for his opinion of why he doesn’t want to do it though. Have you seen a picture of him recently... They'll have to use a LOT of makeup on him. He has not aged well.

Originally posted by Larry L
1) I didn't paint you as anything other than you sounding like you're pro-Obama. Which in all honesty you DO sound like since you seem to be taking the blame of him and his administration when the majority of the blame lies squarely on them.

Again, I don't support him or not, hes just a puppet. He might have a chance to do something decent in this term as he will not have to 'toe the line' to ensure that he gets another term.

Originally posted by Larry L
You can't just blame all of his policies on the NWO because it's a convenient scapegoat to point at (which is nothing to point at really because if they exist, they aren't a body that can be held accountable) on a conspiracy site.

I don't believe that there is a New World Order.
What I know for a fact though is that there is greed, and a group of folks who believe themselves to be our rightful masters. They feel they are the royalty of this world, and the rest of us are surfs at best.

Originally posted by Larry L
I just noticed you were a mod

I'm just being a member here though, so don't sweat it.
I don't like to use the “tags” because invariably someone C&P's them and skews the whole thread.

Originally posted by Larry L
2) Obama and the democrats, while they had full government control, and power to pass any tax legislation they saw fit.

Unless I am mistaken, it seems to me that everything that the Dems tried to do, the Gop blocked, and vice versa. Right now we have these groups too busily playing at a pissing contest to actually achieve anything. The GOP would not allow anything that actually worked, because they didn't want the Dems to get credit for fixing anything, especially before an election.

Besides this, both sides are subject to Lobbying, which IMHO, is nothing short of bribery.

Originally posted by Larry L
your ire on this issue should be directed in their direction, not a Wal-Mart just because they want to make as much money as possible

I'm picking on Walmart because they have some of the best known abuses, and well documented numbers that are easily accessible. Just replace “Walmart” with the corporation of your choice, as they are all guilty of the same stuff one way or another.

Originally posted by Larry L
When there are holes in tax code, anyone would take them if they're eligible to do so.

Those holes were lobbied there by corporate lawyers that are beyond the normal mans means to acquire.

Originally posted by Larry L
ANd BTW, most of them DO seem to actually have medical which a couple employees told me when I happened to ask if they were hiring at checkout a couple times. They mentioned having good benifits, both medical and dental, and I didn't even ask about that.

Maybe they finally took enough heat over this to fix it, but I have never heard of it before.

Originally posted by Larry L
now under Obama's 2nd term, companies are going to be hiring even LESS. That is yet another blame that falls directly on Obama's head....

Obama is not the HR department of the companies.
I see that over the last few years many of these groups are posting huge profits, yet at the same time crying poor. The only way that you are going to make these companies “play fair” is to make it even MORE unprofitable for them to NOT play fair. The problem is that because they have most of the law makers in their back pockets, that never seems to happen.

Look, there was a plan laid out a long time ago to drop the “standard of living” in the US to third world levels. That is what you are seeing unfold in front of you, and its being done on purpose. Its not the government behind it, though they are allowing it to happen (after all, they are the best government that money can buy), look at who controls the US governments money, and those are the people in the real power...

If you still have a job,remember this.

Run your personal life just like a business,if you can't afford to smoke,quit.

Now,you effectively just layed off cigarettes.

Repeat laying off doing anything else you can't justify the expense of doing too,and look ahead.

Why such a long,drawn out,convoluted argument over something so simple?.

reply to post by Larry L


On your third point, new Wal-Mart employees are paid $8.75 an hour, Walmart CEO Michael Duke makes $16,826.92 an hour. He makes more per hour than the workers make yearly, $13,650.

And you seriously do not see the problem with that?

Originally posted by Larry L
Well, I just decided to look up Wal-Mart starting pays and pay rates for various employees.

The lowest pay rate starts at $8.20 an hour.
Sales associates start at $9.30 and hour.
60 cent raise after 3 months for all
$1.10 raise for department manager
50 cent raise annually for all
store managers get 80-110K a year
asst managers get 43-63k a year
Customer service reps get $10-12 an hour

The average non-manager employee there over a year make 10-12 and hour

This was just from one of the first (usefull) link on a google search, I didn't even look into benefits yet. And mind you, the link was 2 years old. I would say you are GROSSLY misinformed about walmart employees being paid "unlivable wages". No wonder they're all so FAT. They're making pretty damned good money.

I'm desperate for work. I may just have to go apply there today.

edit on 8-11-2012 by Larry L because: (no reason given)

At $8.20/hr they make about 5K a year LESS than the poverty level in the US.

Maybe if they sold their mansions and limousines they'd be able to generate enough money to pay for college for their kids.

Originally posted by defcon5
reply to post by Larry L

 

Who's policies?

Let me give you an example for how these 'sacred' corporations are raping the US tax payer...

www.walmartmovie.com...
In 2004, a study released the UC Berkeley Labor Center found that "reliance by Wal-Mart workers on public assistance programs in California comes at a cost to taxpayers of an estimated $86 million annually; this is comprised of $32 million in health related expenses and $54 million in other assistance.

Its estimated that every Walmart that exists cost the US taxpayers $400K/year in social services because they rely on the US taxpayer to be their “benefit package”. They even hold classes to show their employees how to apply for social services...

yet at the same time they are posting record profits:

www.huffingtonpost.com...
Overall, revenue, excluding Sam's Club membership fees, was up 5.5 percent to $108.6 billion. Results were buoyed by Wal-Mart's international business, which produces 26 percent of its revenue. The company's international division was up 16.2 percent.
The retailer, based in Bentonville, Ark., reported net income of $3.8 billion, or $1.09 per share, in the three months ended July 31. That compares with $3.6 billion, or 97 cents per share, in the same period last year. Analysts had expected $1.08 per share on revenue of $108.08 billion.

you still want to blame the president (any president) for this kind of corporate greed?

The problem is that while the misinformed are degrading others about entitlements some corporations are maximizing profits at the expense of the taxpayer. There are corporations that pay minimal salaries without medical benefits and the Government subsidizes these corporations by providing welfare for the citizens and handing out bailouts to these companies with the citizen's money. To add insult to injury these Fortune 500 companies have so many fiscal loopholes in addition to not paying taxes they actually get refunds. However, if the American citizen (taxpayer) complains that when working 40 hours a week their salary cannot meet their basic needs then the corporation moves to another country in search of cheaper labor to further maximize profits. Once they are out of the country these corporations get protection for their assets by utilizting the money and lives of the same people they laid off. This scenario is nothing new. The information provided in the above quote is not in a lost ark somewhere. It is easily accessible to the public. However, some of us here at ATS are so preoccupied with being angry at the wrong people that we refuse to research the truth for ourselves. Ironically, the eagerness to repeat soundbites without validation only compounds the issues subliminally suggested by tptb. Remember Enron, Healthsouth, WorldCom the bailouts? That wasn't that long ago. Now we are fighting each other in defense of our "poor masters". Unbelievable. Why spend time on a conspiracy site if you insist on thinking like a sheep?

Obama Wins ... Layoffs Starting

Obama Wins ... Stock Market Plunges

Obama Wins ... God Sends Another Storm to the Northeast

Gasp!

It's not Obama winning that's making any of these things happen. It's peoples' reactions to it. It's people. People have the power to entirely decide the future and instead are using the excuse of Obama winning to defend or control their actions. That's pretty sad.

You hedged all your bets on starting your business based on the fact that if Obama lost you'd save a couple of bucks on healthcare insurance for one or a few workers? Really? Not a very solid business plan or foundation to begin with by that logic, as it would take months or even years to repeal these things you find would apparently so effect your fledgling business of a few people and without any guarantees that these very things would even change at all. Is the delta between what you would have paid with or without this insurance really that great? Is this really what's stopping you? Somehow I don't think so.

"When nothing is owed or deserved or expected, and your life doesn’t change by the man that’s elected. If you’re loved by someoney, ou’re never rejected. Decide what to be and go be it.

"Road Full of Promises, Head Full of Doubt," Avett Brothers

reply to post by ninjamikec


Well i had been working for Sears for six years and today they said are going to be laying off alot of us after the holidays, guess you better not black friday there.

reply to post by defcon5


I'm just gonna reply to 2 quick things cause I have to take off for a bit.

1) most importantly. The do have Bill Maurry on board for the new Ghostbusters. I don't know if you played the video game from 2009, but it was amazing, written by the original writers (Ramis and Akroyd), was written as a 3rd movie since there were no plans for one then, featured the full original cast (you play the new recruit), it was great and under-rated. But anyway, supposedly they had so much fun all being together again playing those characters, and the game once again sparked demand for a 3rd actual movie, Bill Maurry finally caved in for a 3rd movie. The news is pretty old, and they were working on the script when it came out. So I'm expecting it to be officially announced next year with a summer or holloween time-frame release if we're lucky, but who knows.

2) The GOP couldn't block anything those first 2 years. They were totally outnumbered in the house and senate. Obama and the dems didn't get anything REAL done because they didn't want to. Because regardless of how well they have their base brainwashed to think otherwise, dems are all about big business, wall street and the banks just like the right. The dems just like to keep it secret while lining their personal pockets, while the right is open about being for big business and want that capitalism to trickle down and create jobs to get people off governement assistance.

reply to post by Tazkven


Ahhh, so you wouldn't make 16k and hour if you could? Well aren't you just a saint? Like everyone else when bashing rich people? All SAINTS!!! LOL

reply to post by goarfang


Yet Sears can afford to pay $800,000 per year to fly the CEO, Louis D'Ambrosio between Philadelphia, where he lives, and Chicago, where he works, by private jet. They could save a lot of jobs if this guy just moved.

makes no sense other than corporate greed ...

reply to post by FreebirdGirl

You explained it much clearer then I did. Thanks...

Originally posted by FreebirdGirl
Once they are out of the country these corporations get protection for their assets by utilizting the money and lives of the same people they laid off.

You also bring up another good point...
The US spends ¼ of our yearly budget on the military.
That military is not really there to defend us. MADD ensures that no one will ever try and invade our country.
What is is really about is protecting our corporate and banking interests, assets, and trading partners in foreign countries. When someone will not 'play ball' with our corporations or banking system, we go to war with them to spread our Democracy (aka. Oligarchical Capitalism) to their country.

Originally posted by longlostbrother

Originally posted by Larry L
Well, I just decided to look up Wal-Mart starting pays and pay rates for various employees.

The lowest pay rate starts at $8.20 an hour.
Sales associates start at $9.30 and hour.
60 cent raise after 3 months for all
$1.10 raise for department manager
50 cent raise annually for all
store managers get 80-110K a year
asst managers get 43-63k a year
Customer service reps get $10-12 an hour

The average non-manager employee there over a year make 10-12 and hour

This was just from one of the first (usefull) link on a google search, I didn't even look into benefits yet. And mind you, the link was 2 years old. I would say you are GROSSLY misinformed about walmart employees being paid "unlivable wages". No wonder they're all so FAT. They're making pretty damned good money.

I'm desperate for work. I may just have to go apply there today.

edit on 8-11-2012 by Larry L because: (no reason given)

At $8.20/hr they make about 5K a year LESS than the poverty level in the US.

Maybe if they sold their mansions and limousines they'd be able to generate enough money to pay for college for their kids.

Between all of Obama's bailouts, every man, woman and child in this country could have been put through college. That's not an exageration. So what's your point?