Heffs ATS Barack Obama Victory Tracking and Celebration Thread!

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posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:16 PM
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Originally posted by beezzer

Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by LewsTherinThelamon
 


The current Government is the lawful government of the United States. The Constitution is a living document - that is to say that it changes over time and adapts to modernization - just as the Framers intended.

The system needs major reform and is corrupt as Hell. But it is legitimate and legal.

~Heff


When ever I hear that the Constitution is a "living document" I pause and wait to hear what that person wants to change.

The font.
Damn thing is hard to read in its original form.




posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:17 PM
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reply to post by buddhasystem
 


And the English Bill of Rights....The constitution pretty much just copies a bunch of English documents. The founding fathers were far from original.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by Jeremiah65
reply to post by METACOMET
 

Mods have opinions as well...so what?

Butt hurt or something?

I don't have to agree with someone's opinion but they are entitled to have it.


Yep, I'm butt hurt that newcomers to ATS like you won't get to see real intellectual discussion about real problems we face.

Instead, ATS leadership seems to encourage the divide upon typical party lines, to the extent that discussions have degraded into childish political name calling and "my team is better than your team" theatrics. ATS used to be a place where we spent our time dispelling collective confusion by discussing what we as a people actually want and how we might accomplish it without putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong.

This predictable banter that results every time the political pendulum swings is old, tired and most of all ineffective, and it is not the best way to solve problems. It's one of the oldest con games in the world. It just ticks me off that ATS leadership has shown it embraces this concept now. Nobody wants to get too real, they just want to play the game. Sad.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:19 PM
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Originally posted by butcherguy

Originally posted by 0zzymand0s
reply to post by butcherguy
 


You insinuated that "people with jobs" haven't voted yet.

Seems that you are reading quite a bit into what I wrote.




I'm telling you that just as many people with jobs have already voted, and your argument is faulty.


Maybe you could provide us some sort of statistics that support your claim. Or maybe this is your opinion?


where I work, half of my department (including me) voted before work, my husband (works 2nd shift) voted this morning and my mom (retired military) also voted this morning. Brother and his wife voted on Saturday, my boss last friday. All but my mom (retired militry) hold full time jobs. My mom does not pull SS yet (only her retirement and a poor amount that is for 26 years in the military)



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:20 PM
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Heff, when Obama loses and you get carried away in a rioting mob... can I have your stuff?? DIBBBSS!!!!


Neither of these clowns have my backing. Carry on.

Im back to cleaning off some shelves to put Heffs stuff on....



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


Currently the things that need changing aren't specifically listed in the Constitution - they are SCOTUS based interpretations.

IMO the biggest issue facing the nation today is the fallout of the Citizens United case. - As I see it, giving businesses and monied interests a disproportionate influence in Government.

So, in this case, I think the living document should be amended to ban Super PACS and lobbying.

~Heff



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


So do you disagree that is a living document or what?



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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So what happened to Outkastsearcher? Strange that he is gone, so close to the election. Onto a new job?

Wierd how some of the most outspoken members disappear.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:21 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX
[Snipped]
Sorry if you didn't understand when I used the phrase country when discussing the constitution.
So..
Now that your aware I am talking about the united states, what is your thoughts on the content of my statement about foundation and whatnot...

or did you want to start breaking apart the term foundation instead of commenting?


I cannot believe that the moderators are allowing you to behave this way.

It is not "nerd stuff that does not matter," it is what makes our Union a federation. It is where our nationality derives from.

www.pacalliance.us...

[Mod note: it is not necessary to "quote" the five previous exchanges to reply to the most recent. Edit the quote down to the one you need OR use the reply to tag! Thanks. ~Mike]
edit on 6/11/12 by JustMike because: See mod note above



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:23 PM
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Originally posted by METACOMET

Originally posted by Jeremiah65
reply to post by METACOMET
 

Mods have opinions as well...so what?

Butt hurt or something?

I don't have to agree with someone's opinion but they are entitled to have it.


Yep, I'm butt hurt that newcomers to ATS like you won't get to see real intellectual discussion about real problems we face.

Instead, ATS leadership seems to encourage the divide upon typical party lines, to the extent that discussions have degraded into childish political name calling and "my team is better than your team" theatrics. ATS used to be a place where we spent our time dispelling collective confusion by discussing what we as a people actually want and how we might accomplish it without putting those decisions in the hands of people who pay no price for being wrong.

This predictable banter that results every time the political pendulum swings is old, tired and most of all ineffective, and it is not the best way to solve problems. It's one of the oldest con games in the world. It just ticks me off that ATS leadership has shown it embraces this concept now. Nobody wants to get too real, they just want to play the game. Sad.





Dude, you can't go into a specific obviously partisan light hearted thread and complain that its partisan and full of fluff...its like going into a McDonalds and complaining about burgers on the menu.

There are tons..hundreds of threads trending now in various forums, some are very in depth and thoughtful, some are silly, etc.
So, to go into a thread based on what you don't like, and say ATS sucks because of that one thread type..thats not saying -anything- about the ops, or the thread, or the subject
its saying something about yourself.

like the people whom seek out certain radio or television statements to become offended..bypassing the stuff they like..then saying all tv or radio = that one thing that they don't like.

Yes, free speech means there is going to be some stuff out there you don't agree with.
But you have the ability to simply not visit such areas and read/hear such things. You want to..so deal with it.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:25 PM
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reply to post by Hefficide
 


I believe I agree with you

If money is free speech, then it has had a very loud voice in this election. It's time the government once again became accountable to the people, not to those with the deepest pockets.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:25 PM
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Originally posted by LewsTherinThelamon
Sorry if you didn't understand when I used the phrase country when discussing the constitution.
So..
Now that your aware I am talking about the united states, what is your thoughts on the content of my statement about foundation and whatnot...

or did you want to start breaking apart the term foundation instead of commenting?


I cannot believe that the moderators are allowing you to behave this way.

It is not "nerd stuff that does not matter," it is what makes our Union a federation. It is where our nationality derives from.

www.pacalliance.us...


Mods allow free speech.
You breaking apart and not commenting on what I said, opting instead to go into definitions of the term country and distracting the point is in fact nerd stuff over quality response.

And you still haven't responded to my comment in any meaningful way. Why? Are you unsure how to respond to it?
edit on 6-11-2012 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by SaturnFX


Originally posted by LewsTherinThelamon
Sorry if you didn't understand when I used the phrase country when discussing the constitution.
So..
Now that your aware I am talking about the united states, what is your thoughts on the content of my statement about foundation and whatnot...

or did you want to start breaking apart the term foundation instead of commenting?


I cannot believe that the moderators are allowing you to behave this way.

It is not "nerd stuff that does not matter," it is what makes our Union a federation. It is where our nationality derives from.

www.pacalliance.us...


Mods allow free speech.
You breaking apart and not commenting on what I said, opting instead to go into definitions of the term country and distracting the point is in fact nerd stuff over quality response.

And you still haven't responded to my comment in any meaningful way. Why? Are you unsure how to respond to it?
edit on 6-11-2012 by SaturnFX because: (no reason given)


I did respond. The definitions I posted are important for understanding the law.

The current de facto government works outside of the federal constitution. I urge you to research the law.

www.pacalliance.us...



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:28 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by beezzer
 


Currently the things that need changing aren't specifically listed in the Constitution - they are SCOTUS based interpretations.

IMO the biggest issue facing the nation today is the fallout of the Citizens United case. - As I see it, giving businesses and monied interests a disproportionate influence in Government.

So, in this case, I think the living document should be amended to ban Super PACS and lobbying.

~Heff


Couldn't agree more.


Get the money out, abolish lobbying and all the rest will sort itself out because congress will have to do what we sent them there for.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:30 PM
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Originally posted by Trustfund
reply to post by beezzer
 


So do you disagree that is a living document or what?


Yes. I disagree. It is a document.

The term "living document" was coined during Clinton/Gore to justify a reinterpretation of what was written.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:31 PM
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Originally posted by SunnyDee
So what happened to Outkastsearcher? Strange that he is gone, so close to the election. Onto a new job?

Wierd how some of the most outspoken members disappear.


I think Outkast was banned.

It would be interesting to see a tally of left wing/right wing posters who got banned over the last few months.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:32 PM
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Originally posted by Hefficide
reply to post by beezzer
 


Currently the things that need changing aren't specifically listed in the Constitution - they are SCOTUS based interpretations.

IMO the biggest issue facing the nation today is the fallout of the Citizens United case. - As I see it, giving businesses and monied interests a disproportionate influence in Government.

So, in this case, I think the living document should be amended to ban Super PACS and lobbying.

~Heff


Include unions and we'd agree.

But I don't like the term nor do I agree that it is a "living document".



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:35 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


Unions should not be giving money to a political party either.

As a group they can vote for their guy/girl.
edit on 6-11-2012 by BritofTexas because: unfortunate sexist connotations



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:36 PM
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reply to post by beezzer
 


I'm willing to include unions in the mix, but with the caveat that a "Workers Bill of Rights" is a necessary step in our nations evolution.

After all - there is a thread from a day or two ago calling for the minimum wage to be lowered to four cents an hour. While this one thread is not important - it does show that there is a need for a clearly stated set of rules to be put into place - laws that would ensure productive Americans deserve to have a fair shot at living.

Since deregulation and bad business practices drove us into this service economy... We really do need incentives ( legal or otherwise ) to bring our economy back to something more production based.

Unions, which were meant to assist in these areas, have failed for the most part.

~Heff





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