The Black Knight???

reply to post by jademegjosh


Very cool...I'm pretty amazed I have never heard a thing about this ???

Nice

Originally posted by Soapusmaximus
The supposed lack of PO satellites belonging to us at that time is one of the verifiable facts of this case.

Are you calling the 'lack' a fact, Sorry, it's not clear.

Because there WAS no 'lack', there were US polar-orbit satellites since early 1959..

Didn't you read Corso's book about how he redirected the 'Keyhole' program from NASA, to become a spy satellite?

But it's hogwash -- here's Sparks' debunking of it:


Posted March 21, 1999
from Jeff Rense's Sightings Homepage
www.sightings.com...

Colonel Philip Corso and William Birnes' Bestselling Book Exposed as a Hoax!

Philip Corso's Roswellmania

By Brad C. Sparks

Another bogus Corso achievement I ve already mentioned is his purported takeover of Project Corona, the pioneer U.S. spy satellite. Corso attempts to steal all the credit for Corona but if you read his timeline carefully most of the major R&D and cover-story actions took place in 1960, long before he ever arrived on the scene (pp. 129, 138, 141-142, 145). Corso has done a poor job of reading up on space history from comic books or whatever (since he couldn t have actually worked on the real classified Corona program and gotten things so ridiculously wrong). He claims the most clever innovation was when the Air Force managed to sneak the Corona camera payload on-board an already existing "NASA" civilian satellite project called "Discoverer," which was difficult because it had to be small enough to "fit into" the interior easily and be self-contained (pp. 137-138, 140-142). He imagines that this whole ludicrous endeavor of one agency hiding payloads aboard another agency's satellites was necessitated by NASA assuming control of "ALL satellite launchings" including the military s launches when NASA was created in 1958, a control that purportedly lasted until the 1970 s (pp. 126, 128-129, 138, 144-147, 155-157; emphasis added).

The truth is that Corona was entirely a secret CIA -- not Air Force -- program begun several months BEFORE NASA was even formed. Corona was ordered by President Eisenhower on February 7, 1958, and NASA s first day of operation was on October 1. The cover for the satellites was the AIR FORCE s Discoverer label, which never had anything to do with NASA. It was always publicly associated with the AIR FORCE. NASA never had control of the military's satellite launchings. The existence of a Air Force satellite launch pad completely separate from NASA's Cape Canaveral should settle it. Doesn't Corso read the newspapers? Who does he think has launched satellites from Vandenberg AIR FORCE Base in California from 1959 to the present day? Santa Claus and his elves?

In another proof of Corso's complete ignorance of the Corona project, he invents the following remark by General Trudeau in early 1963, purportedly declaring, "In just a couple of years ... We ll have orbiting satellites mapping every inch of the Soviet Union" (pp. 202-203). Corona satellites had already mapped the USSR by 1963 and proved the nonexistence of the "missile gap," showing there was no huge Soviet ICBM force hidden in Siberia or some other place. You can now even read the official history of CIA s Corona satellite on the Internet and millions of frames of its space reconnaissance photos are now declassified and available to the public. Obviously Corso has a very poor grasp of the Corona satellites function and operational history.

Originally posted by Soapusmaximus
reply to post by Phage

 

OK,

What are these items that were released?

I think it was discussed and identified in the links that I posted to the 'satobs list.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Do you need my to repost them? I will gladly do so.

Did that other guy who recently claimed I never post links to back up my assertions, read that link I posted, either?

All of us here are happy to share each our own unique experience, background lessons, and insights, as we all have done.

It's when some folks suggest -- and I never have -- that I should post general knowledge links because, maybe, I'm the only guy who knows how -- gee, that's insulting to the capabilities of most folks here.

It sounds like they're saying they are helpless. Self-help is the antidote.

reply to post by jademegjosh

All these stories don't mean much supposing this and that is an exercise in futility and gathering data by this internet is plain faulty, as even if they exist there keeping themselves incognito. At first i was against all this, and really trust me the last thing humanity would want is another alien species up here and about doing its thing, it would not be pretty nor would humanity survive it. The reality of things is usually nowhere near as pretty as the fake realty that is superimposed over it.

But now, ya sure why not, bring on the aliens it will make things no more crazier then it would make things interesting. Its a brave new world, dot encoded and transited, but whatever all things must end someday, or if not then may as well go on to better things and worlds. As for a black knight satellite in space...whatever! who gives a #! when it comes down on your front lawn and town, then talk about it...Till then its just more noise and meaningless jabber. Which in the end just ends up being more he said she said, and we got plenty of that on the pictotube already and everywhere else you look, in the end it all just ends up being regurgitated over and over, slight variations do vary somewhat but not often.

couldnt all this be solved with a few FOI requests from your govt?

i dont know much about US FOI but if you submitted a request for anything pertaining to "black knight" "unknown sattelites" and the dates you want, you might find they were asking questions too..

if your officials were asking questions... then its a genuine mystery,

if nothing exists, its a genuine myth. or i suppose a genuine coverup..

arguing here over pictures and hearsay isnt really helping.

anyone got experience in FOI requests?
i would love to see the results

i wonder if i can do an FOI from australia?

Is that the accurate message received? Naming the stars "Epsilon Bootis" and "Arcturus"? Correct me if i'm wrong, but what are the chances another civilisation light-years apart from ours named them exactly the same... ?

Originally posted by jademegjosh
Is the black knight satellite real or just a myth?What is the "Black Knight" satellite? It is a mysterious satellite, of unknown origin,

It was British... en.wikipedia.org... launched in 1958

Originally posted by hellobruce

Originally posted by jademegjosh
Is the black knight satellite real or just a myth?What is the "Black Knight" satellite? It is a mysterious satellite, of unknown origin,

It was British... en.wikipedia.org... launched in 1958

Try again:

The first British satellite, Ariel 1, was launched in 1962.

Wiki entry for 1st British satellite launch

Originally posted by FireMoon
This is for people to read and bare in mind when someone comes along and glibly says.."Oh it was junk they just threw it out"...

Space Junk

From the same site...

There are many thousands more uncatalogued objects larger than 1 cm — perhaps more than 50 000; no one really knows the exact count. Uncatalogued objects include bits of aluminium slag from solid rocket motor propellant and droplets of Sodium-Potassium coolant that escaped from Russian nuclear-powered reconnaissance satellites when they ejected their reactor cores. The really dangerous bits are intermediate in size, between 1 and 10 cm. These are hard to detect yet pack a kinetic energy punch sufficient to cause catastrophic damage. One cm is also the maximum size of debris that can be defeated by modern shielding technology; Space Shuttle windscreens have been damaged by flecks of paint as small as 0.3 mm in size travelling at a mere 14 400 kph. The fastest debris, at 50 000 kph, are travelling about 17 times faster than a machine gun bullet.

So, by all means, furnish us with the number and code from the catalogue for this piece of space debris so we can all clear this up.

Haha yeah I'd like to see them explain this one!

reply to post by PlanetXisHERE


Just an additional note on the Wiki you provided. It actually features a picture of a rocket dubbed "Black Knight", which judging from its shape, cannot be responsible for the chunk of stuff that baffles observers so thoroughly.

reply to post by alfa1


You are assuming the OP is referring to Sputnik 1. Sputnik 3 was in orbit from May 15, 1958 to April 6, 1960.

Originally posted by TrueBrit
reply to post by PlanetXisHERE

 

Just an additional note on the Wiki you provided. It actually features a picture of a rocket dubbed "Black Knight", which judging from its shape, cannot be responsible for the chunk of stuff that baffles observers so thoroughly.

Yes, that "Black Knight" looks nothing like the one in question in the OP, not to mention the fact it is tiny, and the real Black Knight ET satellite is much larger than any payload admitted to by the earth's various satelite launching agencies.

Just more obfuscation.

Originally posted by Wongbeedman

Originally posted by FireMoon
This is for people to read and bare in mind when someone comes along and glibly says.."Oh it was junk they just threw it out"...

....So, by all means, furnish us with the number and code from the catalogue for this piece of space debris so we can all clear this up.

Haha yeah I'd like to see them explain this one!

I guess you didn't read the SATOBS posts linked from here
www.abovetopsecret.com...
that describe the origin of that object, and its catalog number.

If you don't agree with that answer, please describe why not, instead of
just ignoring it and pretending it never was posted on this very thread.

Originally posted by scorilo

Is that the accurate message received? Naming the stars "Epsilon Bootis" and "Arcturus"? Correct me if i'm wrong, but what are the chances another civilisation light-years apart from ours named them exactly the same... ?

The alleged 'message' was never received as text -- that's a dramatization of some writer -- but supposedly
was encoded onto a series of delay times from the Long delayed Echoes receptions in the 1920s.

Fifty years later, a Scottish amateur astronomer named Duncan Lunan suggested that a cartesian plot
of the delays, with suitable selection of X and Y axes, showed a recognizable depiction of the
constellation Bootes wih one star displaced by a certain time lag.

He interpreted the chart to convey the message as described.

After a few more years of study, Lunan decided it was only a random alignment that he had
over-interpreted, and he withdrew his theory. He no longer believes it [you can ask him].

It's amazing how the original story, which never had ANY connection with the independent
stories of the unknown Earth satellite, got woven into the fairy tale that the OP posted.

But it happens a lot, and is worth studying as a warning example of what to beware of,
when reading UFO websites with a too-open mind that can lead to your brain falling out.

Originally posted by JimOberg

Originally posted by Wongbeedman

Originally posted by FireMoon
This is for people to read and bare in mind when someone comes along and glibly says.."Oh it was junk they just threw it out"...

....So, by all means, furnish us with the number and code from the catalogue for this piece of space debris so we can all clear this up.

Haha yeah I'd like to see them explain this one!

I guess you didn't read the SATOBS posts linked from here
www.abovetopsecret.com...
that describe the origin of that object, and its catalog number.

If you don't agree with that answer, please describe why not, instead of
just ignoring it and pretending it never was posted on this very thread.

Actually I do agree with that explanation, mostly anyways.
That was my first contribution to this thread, I haven't ignored anything, there was no need for such a sharp tongued response.
However thanks for providing me with info that a lot of people on this thread could really use

reply to post by JimOberg


Jim my lil scutter still printing only half the facts again? Tsk Tsk,.... very very naughty of you, then again all those years in the military and NASA, I guess it becomes second nature. You singularly forgot to mention how Lunan has since said otherwise...in his own words..

Out of ASTRA's share of the "Man and the Stars' proceeds a satellite tracking station was built to search for the probe, but a series of major setbacks, including vandalism and hurricane damage, prevented us from commissioning it. In the end most of the 'Epsilon Bootis' translation had to be discarded, but recently it's beginning to seem that there may be something to it after all. A further article 'Epsilon Bootis revisited' appeared in the March 1998 issue of Analog.

From... easyweb.easynet.co.uk...

Originally posted by FireMoon
reply to post by JimOberg

 

Jim my lil scutter still printing only half the facts again? Tsk Tsk,.... very very naughty of you, then again all those years in the military and NASA, I guess it becomes second nature. You singularly forgot to mention how Lunan has since said otherwise...in his own words..

You have done me a great favor, in providing me a link i had not seen -- and one that Lunan had not shared with me. I will most definitely follow up. Again, thank you, and keep up the 'tough love' critiques, they benefit everybody.

How, in your view, do the LDEs tie in to 'Black Knight'? I still don't see any link, so please share with me the argument you find convincing.

Sorry, whats that? The huge satellite describe as being too large to have been launched by any of the then current rocket technology, that was orbiting the poles in the opposite direction to any other satellite, twice as fast as any other satellite, and on some days not being detectable at all- that was all explained/blown out of proportion 'over the years'? How about these articles from 1960?:

"Judson, who has been studying the object in conjunction with Robert L. Johnson, director of the Adler Planetarium sums up the conclusions about the thing this way: " "It's not a meteor because it's much too slow. And it's not an artificial man-made satellite, of that we're certain. THE OBJECT TRAVELS FROM EAST TO
WEST...EVERY ARTIFICIAL SATELLITE EVER PUT UP HAS TRAVELED FROM
WEST TO EAST. THAT'S THE ONLY WAY IN WHICH THEY CAN TAKE
ADVANTAGE OF THE EARTH'S ROTATION.""
" 'THE OBJECT,' JUDSON SAID, 'DOESN'T EVEN HAVE THE DECENCY TO
MAINTAIN A REGULAR SCHEDULE, LIKE ANY OTHER HEAVENLY OR MAN MADE
OBJECT HE'S EVER SEEN.' 'WE DON'T KNOW WHEN TO WATCH FOR IT.' he says." It appears some nights, and some nights it doesn't. Usually it appears at about the time (the) Echo I (balloon
satellite) does going in the opposite direction and about twice as fast. (Source 9/1/60 EXPERTS CLOUDY ON IDENTITY OF SKY THING (Newsday) By: Bob Caro)

Also: "Robert L. Johnson, director of Chicago's Adler Planetarium, is compiling data on the object. He says it doesn't appear to be an artificial satellite or a meteor. An added touch of the unusual is the east to west trajectory of the object. Satellites launched by the United States and the Soviet Union have followed the opposite trajectory, west to east, to take advantage of extra speed provided by the earth's rotation." (Source 9/1/60 GRUMMAN FILMS MYSTERY SPHERE (L.I. Press))

Also: "Secret military device? We were (at that time) using our best equipment to get our satellites into orbit,
competing with the Russians....and, if it was some sort of secret military device put into orbit going almost twice as fast in the opposite direction of the Echo satellite, then why didn't it keep a regular schedule? It was clearly stated the object did not keep a regular schedule and was going the WRONG WAY, twice as fast. And it was an object, not just an electronic reflection because... they took pictures of it. (source Jerry Cohen Wed, 5 Feb 1997)

The thread that Phage refers to throws up an opening post with this link: circa71.wordpress.com... Worth a read but perhaps a little dramatic.

Phage, in that thread, are you are talking of the 'Corona/Discoverer' CIA/DoD missions? "The first dozen or more Corona satellites and their launches were cloaked with disinformation as being part of a space technology development program called the Discoverer program. The first test launches for the Corona/Discoverer were carried out early in 1959. The capsule of Discoverer 2 might have been recovered by the Soviets, after landing on Spitsbergen Island.[36] The first Corona launch containing a camera was carried out in June 1959 with the cover name Discoverer 4. This was a 750 kilogram satellite launched by a Thor-Agena rocket."(wiki)

But in fact, by far the majority of the early Discoverer missions failed (numbers 4-12, then 14-17), and none of them displayed the characteristics of the 'Black Knight' "The spacecraft was 1.5 m in diameter, 5.85 m long. The mass excluding propellants was 743 kg, which included 111 kg for the instrumentation payload and 88 kg for the reentry vehicle." (nasa)

Data on the orbit of Discovery 2: nssdc.gsfc.nasa.gov...

Interesting, but not the Black Knight IMHO.

Originally posted by Thunda
But in fact, by far the majority of the early Discoverer missions failed (numbers 4-12, then 14-17), and none of them displayed the characteristics of the 'Black Knight'

"Failed" to return the capsule to Earth, perhaps -- but they mostly got into orbit, and sometimes the 'failed' capsules were ejected into separate orbits difficult to track.

That's what you're trying to say, right?

As far as 'characteristics' of the mystery satellite, such as mass -- how were these any different from wild guesses at the dawn of the Space Age?

And how was the planetarium guy's guesses any different from observations of high-altitude planes that weren't officially registered with the FAA? As he himself said, the object wasn't following any satellite-like orbit, he couldn't tell how high it was, and he saw it night after night -- which satellites as a rule don't perform repeated same-time flyovers.

I think people are trying to force-fit confused misidentifications into a fictional pattern.

reply to post by Thunda


Nice post Thunda. As mentioned before, It does not seem to act like a sat. And like I said before, it does not make sense that NASA would put up photos of secret craft or Alien craft on their website.

So that leaves NASA’s Identification
Mission: STS088 Roll: 724 Frame: 65 Mission ID on the Film or image: STS88
Country or Geographic Name: OCEAN
Features: PAN-SNGLNT., SPACE DEBRIS

But as many have already mentioned, there are things about it that do not fit into the SPACE DEBRIS box.

2 Possibilities:

MAYBE THE OBJECT IN THE PHOTOS AND THE OBJECT JUDSON AND OTHERS ARE TALKING ABOUT ARE NOT THE SAME THING.
or
Maybe someone at NASA went all Travolta on them and posted photos no one was supposed to see? They were leaked out before anyone realized and then they had to be explained away.