Originally posted by SyntheticPerception

Satan is doing gods work.

If we are talking about a character in a book then we should look to that book for information about that character, not make up our own story and somehow pretend that that is what the book is telling us so we can then use it as an argument, this is what's called creating a straw man argument, you set up your own straw man to attack. Nowhere in the bible are we informed that Satan is doing God's work, if that is what you take from the story it is just because you don't WANT to know the real story, so you don't investigate if what you say actually makes any sense if you study the books that form the bible (usually it's because you've got the idea from somewhere else, not from a personal study of the bible).

Originally posted by SyntheticPerception

That is what I can't grasp about religion.

They demonize Satan and humans declare him the enemy of God, yet Satan plays a huge role in the bible.

No need to bring religion into this, let's just stick to the bible for our information regarding Satan, since that's where he was first mentioned to the world (unlike some pieces of misinformation that would like you to think otherwise).

Originally posted by SyntheticPerception

He provides the catalyst for all of the events and certain key figures. He is doing his job. No Satan = no Bible.

It is humans who have turned him into an excuse for all our "evil" deeds.

It's true that Satan is mentioned a lot as the cause for many problems in the world in the bible, as well as certain events, but the bible clearly tells us that he's NOT doing his job (if you consider his job being the good angel that he was when God first created him). You're still stuck on the argument that God planned all this from the start exactly the way it has turned out. That is not how God's foreknowledge of events works (omniscience), he needs to choose to look at a particular future (in my imagination he does this through analyzing details, patterns, then he can make a projection more detailed than anyone else, but he has to CHOOSE to do this, if he chooses to watch the 'movie' live instead before skipping to the end, he doesn't know what's going to happen (free will comes into play here). This view is based on what the bible tells us, not my own made up story (or by any religion, I could give you the bible verses that support it, if I thought you cared).

"No Satan = no bible", probably yes, but what if's don't matter, Satan is here, he needs to be considered in our worldview and how we look at information that comes our way (which is why we're getting help from God, in literary form so we can verify its origin and see if anyone made any changes to the message and other reasons that help with authenticity, being able to trust that the message is indeed from God, and more reasons why it HAD to be in literary form), otherwise you're just going to run into one surprise after the other, were you surprised when you first saw the videos of the Bohemian Grove made by Alex Jones? I wasn't. Were you surprised that Obama didn't close Guantanamo Bay? That it took so long for him to rename all the soldiers in Iraq to private security personnel, ambassadors and attachees, and military advisors and move the rest over to other countries like Afghanistan so people would think he was at least trying to keep his promise to end the war in Iraq?

EDIT: side thought, who needs soldiers if you can make the local population so desperate and poor that you can actually get them to put their lives on the line for your occupation force consisting of other desperate poor people risking their lives for meagre wages that actually start to look good to these people.

next up is the UN going after religion (attacking/destroying).

Just so you don't have to be surprised, you can find it in Revelation chapter 17. False religion is the whore referred to as Babylon the Great and the UN is the beast she is riding. I will spare you any further details. You can't miss the event (you can already see the anti-religion propaganda coming from the UN actually if you keep an eye on them, like some of us have been doing for decades).

Originally posted by cconn487
I was going to say it is nothing but a new beginning. It seems I am not alone with that train of thought. Even if there is a time of great changes, the old will make way for the new.

We just have to decide what the new actually is. Will we look back and try to find a solution in the past that obviously doesn't work? Or will we find a better way to affect more people positively?

I hope I will see the collapse of systems that flat out don't work. Whats the point in keeping these practices going on as business as usual, when the benefits are overshadowed by the costs?

The benefits are overshadowed by the costs because the whole economic system does not work anymore. Prices rise constantly, half of the world (or more) cannot afford many things anymore.
I believe current economic systems will collapse, together with other social values and even religions.

Followed this for a while now. So if "the end is near" and "if it's Dec 21 '12", when will TPTB start to run and hide in their apparent underground bunkers. Are there "watchers" from the conspiracy theorists that are tailing them to let all of us plebs know that things are hotting up? My take, there will be nothing more than people taking off to their respective families for xmas celebrations

ive come a long way in terms of "2012" ive gone from thinking it will be the end, to now realizing its just another day. but doomsday aside, i do feel like something has to give, the way we live seems so unnatural, seems so out of balance, and everyday i feel like the pressures building up and has to release. personally i feel its something to do with the "elite" losing control or being exposed, like were all in chains and something will cause us to realize we dont need to be in chains anymore. but even though alot of people say "i have a weird feeling" i truly do have a weird feeling about 2012, not so much dec21st, but the days, weeks, year to follow, as though dec 21st is the big distraction, and the real show happens shortly after. good thread!

And the formation of the state of Israel (not long after the bomb), in 1948. And the Mayan calendar
“11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a One World Government with its own independent armed forces.”

Look at the world and it is becoming more pagan.WRITE down the words of the prophecy because the end is near. The world is splitting apart faster than an atom in a nuclear reactor. Why does everything in the newspapers, look like the exact texts of bible prophecy over two thousand years ago. A New religion. The want to destroy religion to make way for a new religion, that is the secret behind this.

But thankfully "God" gave us a brain so we could think for ourself instead of blindly following a book. A book that was created by picking and choosing what text "they" wanted to include.

This election was probably the last one that most people who have courage to fight against the enslavement, will really pay attention to, because we are now in a chorus of the end of days. For three days Saul lived in darkness, until his sight was restored by the laying on of hands by Ananias.

This world has already ended as far as humanity and its hopes and dreams go. I am sorry geez,

The world continues its nightmare march toward something. More wear and tear (and suffering)

Originally posted by MarkScheppy
This world has already ended as far as humanity and its hopes and dreams go. I am sorry geez,

The world continues its nightmare march toward something. More wear and tear (and suffering)

edit on 11-11-2012 by MarkScheppy because: add

Some people still need suffering, It can be a great teacher, Maybe once humanity learns its lessons and evolves past petty differences, we will quit needing a catalyst for change. Until then instead of losing hope at the world around us realize that some still need this.

Originally posted by SyntheticPerception
A book that was created by picking and choosing what text "they" wanted to include.

This is what I like to call a surface-argument. (no you probably won't find that word anywhere on wikipedia with a single description, I made it up myself). It floats at the surface of logic and reason. It hasn't been probed deeper by the one using it, it reminds me of when I was a kid and kids would try to trump eachother with a bigger number and kept doing that for a while.

Now i could jump in again and say "your number +1" to settle the argument but I still feel the same way as I felt back then, one of the ones arguing should be able to come up with that one themselves.

A clue considering this particular argument, the jews recognize only half of the bible as being from God and they have done so generation after generation before the word "canon" was in use.