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I'm Not Voting

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posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 02:43 PM
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Well....we did vote today...and it was really a positive and hopeful experience in my eyes...people coming together and talking, sharing ideas, I stood in line with some cool people that are also going 3rd party....

But what occured to me as we were driving home....what really made it mean something to me, was showing support for people who against ALL odds had the HEART to keep trying and tell the truth...and I want those good and honest people to know that we're all not "brain dead".....and thier efforts were important.......




posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 02:46 PM
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Originally posted by natalia
reply to post by randyvs
 


You are hilarious!!


So funny how everyone's going so crazy on people who choose not to vote.

I didn't vote. I have a right not too.

I'm bout done with people saying if you don't vote, you can't complain!! Hah!

I sure can. I have a right too in all this corruption. But people seem to still have their eyes closed.

I'm hilarious ?
And Washington giggles.
edit on 6-11-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 02:58 PM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by trysts
 


Sorry to jump in, but you made 2 errors.

1. What evidence do you have that this is a 'fraud' election? Just because you said so? Then can I call you a fraud, or pervert, or anything dirty, afterall, NO evidences seemed to be required.


2. As you had already abrogated your right to vote - the system whereby your voice is heard to make changes, then what right do you have to criticize the system that you had fully relinquished all rights to?

By all means, you are free to talk, just like anyone else,, but NOT as a citizen, for you had refused to accept your very basic responsibility to society by not voting. You made that choice on your own free will, and now sadly, you lost your credibilty and will have to live with the consequences. It is your life, not anyone elses to suffer.
edit on 6-11-2012 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)


American elections for the P.O.T.U.S. are a fraud of choice, since anyone who is not financed by corporations for hundreds of millions of dollars are marginalized to the point of being invisible. Diebold voting has been shown to be corrupt. People can walk into a polling station without I.D. and claim they are someone else. The two-party system does not give a chance for independents to win. The electoral college system cancels out the individuals vote. The President of the U.S. has been a war-loving figurehead since my birth in 1979. The system guarantees that an anti-imperialist agenda will never be a part of a country dedicated to spending at least 40% of my taxes to the military for aggressive purposes, not defensive purposes, thus insuring that my vote goes to murdering people in other countries. The State-run media controls, marginalizes, and censors dissent. Et cetera, et cetera.

I never relinquished my right to criticize. That is just some fantasy of yours. My voice is heard not because of the system which I abhor, but in spite of it, 101. The system would like to put me in a free speech zone when I protest on the streets, but while I'm at home I can type my thoughts on the matter at this website, for instance, or I may speak to everyone I know about my position on the matter. I am a citizen of the U.S. because I was born here, live here, pay taxes here.

People of the U.S. are having their constitutional rights neglected and undermined by other people, like yourself, who hold that I have no right to criticize the system unless I reinforce it's validity through the voting process. That is foolish, and you're quite confused if you imagine you can censor people who actually pay attention to what this government has been doing, and know of the tragedy of others who are it's victims.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 03:03 PM
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reply to post by trysts
 





American elections for the P.O.T.U.S. are a fraud of choice,


Funny how there is hardly even an argument against this fact. Even the guy doing the registration outside of home depot agreed. Yet people will still flock like sheeple.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 03:07 PM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 


I agree.

In 10,000 years of recorded human civilization the average schmuck has never had anything approaching the standard of living or quality of life enjoyed today.

Society is not perfect and never will be but it has steadily been moving towards empowering the faceless masses.

Wealth is power and always will be. In the past most of our ancestors destiny's were decided from birth, you were born a serf and you died a serf (in your 40's if you were lucky).

Today the only thing stopping you is yourself, build a better mousetrap and it's all yours.

If you don't like the way the government functions, change it.

Run for office, sponsor a grass roots initiative, gather a group of like minded individuals and present your concerns to your congressman etc. etc. etc...

Of course its easier to make excuses for not participating by making nonsensical claims about shadowy cabals with nefarious agenda's rigging the outcome, after all, this is ATS.


Everyone please go vote. Presidency aside, there are plenty of local matters on your ballot that should warrant your concern.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 03:18 PM
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reply to post by Drunkenparrot
 





Presidency aside,


Unbelievable ! ( shakes head turns and kicks rocks )
edit on 6-11-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 03:25 PM
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reply to post by SeekerofTruth101
 



2. Voting is a power, and with power comes responsibilities - to oneself and to others sharing the same space, same country and world. Ignore voting and you only abrogate your responsibility as a mature adult.


You don't know people who abuse that power by voting for candidates about whom they know NOTHING?

If there was any responsiblity attached to voting, tests would be required prior to registration to prove that the voter can claim the slightest knowledge about how this country was founded and by whom or how the system operates before ever casting a ballot. That sure would cut down on the lines at the polls. Well, at least it would if I got to write the questions.


www.abovetopsecret.com...



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by sdcigarpig
reply to post by trysts
 

Here is the thing Trysts:

Not voting cause you believe it is a fraud, then get the laws changed. Get the evidence and back it up, cause ultimately that is how you get such changed for the better. Sitting back and not voting, cause you think it is a waste of time, well it is the same as sitting back and complaining about a problem and not doing anything about it. I think it is foolish and ultimately does nothing constructive.

And if you do not participate in a process where doing such could have changed an outcome, is a choice, but at the same time it is wrong to complain about the outcome, if you do nothing. And not voting ultimately is the same as doing nothing. And if you do not participate, then you really should not be complaining cause it does not go your way. Laws get onto the books through non participation.

Let me ask you this: Are you going to sit around and not vote if they decide to remove your right to own a gun? Are you going to just sit there and complain when the police knock on your door and do a search and complain that the law was unfair? Would it matter if it passed by say 1 vote, or 10 or 100 or even 1000?

History is loaded with examples of where 1 vote made a difference. Think on this:
1 vote gave Oliver Cromwell control of England, cost King Charles I of England his head, places King George I on the throne of England. 1 vote elected Thomas Jefferson, John Quincy Adams into the office of President, admitted Texas, California and Oregon into the United States. 1 vote saved President Jackson from being removed from office. 1 Vote elected Hitler into position. In 1994, the U.S. House of Representatives enacted a law banning specific classes of assault weapons. The vote was initially tied but one member changed his vote to approve the ban. Bills proposing amendment to the U. S. Constitution require a 2/3's vote of each House in order to be approved. When the balanced budget amendment bill came before the U.S. Senate in March, 1995, the measure failed by one vote — Mark Hatfield, Republican from Oregon, was the sole Republican failing to vote with other members of the Republican Party which was the majority party of the U.S. Senators. When it became apparent the measure would fail, Senate Republican Whip Bob Dole changed his vote to enable him to bring the matter back up under parliamentary rules for a vote in the future.



Like another member here basically said, if we lived in an actual democracy, then my vote would have been represented on the final tally. We don't live in a democracy. My vote for the President won't oppose a fellow citizen's vote. My vote has no meaning whatsoever in this country. It's completely invisible.
The history which you took the time to express, not only has nothing to do with the present state of affairs, but it is also misrepresented as having to do with a single citizen's vote. That history is all about representative's of the citizenry. That "one vote" is supposed to represent many people's vote.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by ArrowsNV
160 years of nothing but Democrats & Republicans and look where it has landed us...

I think we need to try a new approach and see where that takes us because obviously neither party has done us that well in those 160 years or even in the past 12...


I hear ya. I'd make it against the law for millionaires, lawyers, and generals to run for president. A candidate MUST represent the people, and the people aren't millionaires, lawyers, or generals!



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 03:41 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by trysts
 





American elections for the P.O.T.U.S. are a fraud of choice,


Funny how there is hardly even an argument against this fact. Even the guy doing the registration outside of home depot agreed. Yet people will still flock like sheeple.


Yes. People who don't pay attention to the world, or are too young to know, probably get excited about this fake election. But others seem to think that everything magically changes at the polls in this country, even though a slight awareness of the past does not show this to be the case, at all. The famous Einstein definition of insanity always comes to mind:
"Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result".



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 03:46 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by Drunkenparrot
 





Presidency aside,


Unbelievable ! ( shakes head turns and kicks rocks )
edit on 6-11-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



You do realize there is much more to the ballot than the Presidency?

There are a myriad of local propositions and initiative's such as tax levies to fund public infrastructure that can and do impact your life much more intimately than the name of the man in the Presidents office.

The juggernaut that is the U.S. government is going to fundamentally continue to maintain the federal status quo but voting to fund that new stoplight down the street might save your life.

Kick rocks and pout all that you want, IMHO voter participation is a civic responsibility.

edit on 6-11-2012 by Drunkenparrot because: sp



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 04:40 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
...Yet people will still flock like sheeple.
Do you have the capability in your country to show up at the polls and officially decline your vote? It is then registered as such in this country. If you can, and you don't...then who's the sheep?

Just out of curiousity, where were you when nominations were done? Did you express your opinions at that time? Have you tried to affect change in any way through the process? Have you run as a lawmaker? Do you write letters to your representatives and complain? Have you supported candidates outside of the current primary power structure?

Cuz talk is just so damn cheap. I still maintain that if you don't exercise your franchise, well, further utterances on governance are simply noise and ought to be regarded as such.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 04:57 PM
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Originally posted by natalia
reply to post by randyvs
 


You are hilarious!!


So funny how everyone's going so crazy on people who choose not to vote.

I didn't vote. I have a right not too.

I'm bout done with people saying if you don't vote, you can't complain!! Hah!

I sure can. I have a right too in all this corruption. But people seem to still have their eyes closed.


The irony is your right to complain is protected by the same rule of law you readily dismiss.


I have a right too in all this corruption.

That is a bit of a logical fallacy. Realistically, the more corrupt the government, the less tolerance to public descension.

That you can freely and openly accuse the government of being corrupt (regardless of actual merit) without any fear of potential consequences, says something on it's own.


people seem to still have their eyes closed


I agree but for a different reason than yourself. What I see is that there are a lot of disenchanted people who hold some very strong opinions on the matter that don't understand because they haven't taken the time to educate themselves.

Idea's like inalienable rights are difficult concepts for even educated scholars to define and it takes honest effort for the average laymen, like you or I, to fully comprehend.

The final thought being don't take your civil liberties for granted. They didn't come free to your ancestors and there are literally tens of millions of people around the world who wish they had the freedom of self determination we as U.S. citizens enjoy without a second thought.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 04:59 PM
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Originally posted by SeekerofTruth101
reply to post by trysts
 


Sorry to jump in, but you made 2 errors.

1. What evidence do you have that this is a 'fraud' election? Just because you said so? Then can I call you a fraud, or pervert, or anything dirty, afterall, NO evidences seemed to be required.


2. As you had already abrogated your right to vote - the system whereby your voice is heard to make changes, then what right do you have to criticize the system that you had fully relinquished all rights to?

By all means, you are free to talk, just like anyone else,, but NOT as a citizen, for you had refused to accept your very basic responsibility to society by not voting. You made that choice on your own free will, and now sadly, you lost your credibilty and will have to live with the consequences. It is your life, not anyone elses to suffer.
edit on 6-11-2012 by SeekerofTruth101 because: (no reason given)


Choosing not to vote can be an exercise of ones freedom of speech, especially if the refusal to participate in the voting process is based on ones perception that it is a corrupt endeavor to put corrupt officials in office. I reject the notion that a refusal to vote deprives an individual of the right to complain, criticize or offer alternatives. That claim is not based on any law or on the constitution. It is merely your opinion, one you too have the right to express. One does not lose the rights of citizenship simply by refusing to vote, no matter how much some people would like that to be the case.

I refuse to eat at McDonald's but I still complain about the food. Maybe if enough people stopped eating at McDonald's they would stop serving garbage. Just my opinion of course.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 05:07 PM
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reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Maintain as you will Johnny. I don't want to sway you of your opinion and I know you won't sway me one damned bit either. Everything you mentioned is completely unattainable or just plain absiud in the expectancy of change. I'[m just a realist. So dream on as you will.

Agree to disagree ?
edit on 6-11-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 05:09 PM
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Originally posted by randyvs
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Maintain as you will Johnny. I don't want to sway you of your opinion and I know you won't sway me one damned bit either. Everything you mentioned is completely unattainable or just plain absiud in the expectancy of change.
So dream on as you will.

Agree to disagree ?

Fair enough. You guys are our cousins and we pay attention to what happens in your house.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 05:11 PM
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Fair enough. You guys are our cousins and we pay attention to what happens in your house.
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


Me to brother and I'm mortified to tell you the truth.

Time for a Rolling Rock
edit on 6-11-2012 by randyvs because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 05:14 PM
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reply to post by projectvxn
 





posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 05:35 PM
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reply to post by Drunkenparrot
 



Idea's like inalienable rights are difficult concepts for even educated scholars to define and it takes honest effort for the average laymen, like you or I, to fully comprehend.


Well, it isn't all that hard.


Inalienable right refers to rights that cannot be surrendered, sold or transferred to someone else, especially a natural right such as the right to own property. However, these rights can be transferred with the consent of the person possessing those rights. Inalienable is defined as incapable of being surrendered or transferred; at least without one's consent.[Morrison v. State, 252 S.W.2d 97, 101 (Mo. Ct. App. 1952)]. A person can surrender, sell or transfer inalienable rights by actual or constructive consent.


Surrender. Consent. Think debt. Sign right here on the dotted line honey and we'll always take care of you. Sorry parrot, you can't owe money and be free all at the same time. Creditors and government agencies have all the rights once they've got your signature on any number of dotted lines. On top of that, the government is in hock up to its young neck, as well, and won't protect you from its creditors, either.

Then there are the unalienable rights that say “all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." These rights cannot be bartered away, or given away, or taken away except in punishment of crime. Like say, for instance, your ideas of pursuing happiness are declared illegal (like growing a garden in your front yard). Or maybe you fail to pay your debt on time and the sheriff says your ulalienable right to live happily in your own home is now alienable.

Wiggle words to keep the masses content.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 05:45 PM
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Fair enough. You guys are our cousins and we pay attention to what happens in your house.
reply to post by JohnnyCanuck
 


On the other hand , I admire what you've said here, knowing it's true. A wise member you are and I meant no disrespect in our exchanges.



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