The poor is not your enemy. Open your eyes!

I have no problem with the poor or the rich but i do have a problem with those poor, rich and middle class that are not willing to pull their weight! With that being said the poor do not control the political theater! It's quite obvious to me that the middleclass seems to be getting screwed by the wealthy class more then the poor!
I've never seen the poor outsource jobs, manipulate polls, make unjust laws, create a welfare state for both the rich and poor, control edjucation, promote unjust wars, bankroll corrupt politicians and use issues to divide the population over abortion, gay marriage and immigration amung other themes!
lastly the poor have been used by the liberals to gain votes through free give aways and to blame them for grabing a free meal is pointless! If someone is hungry you don't blame them for eating!
PS: Someday all this contempt may cause a great destruction and if you hate those that are poor or rich just because they are, then you have more problems then just the hate in your heart!

Originally posted by Konoyaro
All of the problems we see today are because we continue to live above our means as it was needed and a right. But the possibility of us having all these things comes from the enslavement of someone poorer, greed is the enemy of the sustainability of all humanity. I think greed must almost be removed completely for happiness of all, unfortunately that makes it impossible to have all these fun things we have, computers and so on. Call me a hypocrite, which I am, as I have not yet given up greed as I've become so accustomed to it, we have lost touch with reality and sadly it cannot last forever.

Star for you, for being honest with us but especially with yourself! Maybe if we were all as honest we would be in alot better place! I believe we are all hypocrites to one degree or another but most of us are just not willing to admit this to anyone let alone themselves!

reply to post by intelligenthoodlum33


Honestly, one thing I noticed while looking at the map tonight of the Presidential elections. The blue states have some of the most high paying jobs and overall higher income levels. Then their are the red states which I have driven through many before. The red states seemingly are the poorest of all states. Not sure what this means, but every man for himself doesn't really promote prosperity.

reply to post by ExPostFacto


I find this very strange, because Romney just does not strike me as a working mans candidate. He strikes me more as an elitist and a hater of the working class poor, as many of his off hand and unguarded remarks bare out apparantly.

I just had this guy do some work on my house, I was trying to help him out and he told me a few days ago that him and a few of his friends actually turn down some part time jobs because they wouldn't qualify for most of the government benefits they receive now. He was pretty much bragging about how sweet he's got it living in nice government subsidized housing for dirt cheap, food stamps, and doesn't pay crap for taxes, I really wanted to smack him. I know not everyone on welfare is that way but too many people get content and don't try and better themselves and it actually hurts them to be working. I'm fresh out of college and it's sicking how much I already pay in taxes and student loans but I am happy I have a good job unlike the majority of my friends.

reply to post by ExPostFacto


I don't want to derail my own thread, so I won't touch this one here.

reply to post by intelligenthoodlum33


What's worse is when the poor vote against the poor. They're so taken away with party rhetoric, they don't take the time to find out how a particular parties platform and beliefs will effect them.

reply to post by WeRpeons


Unfortunately, in most cases, your exactly right. Some, especially in the south seem especially easy to sway.

I know a girl on EBT who owns her house, doesn't own a car, and walks to work. That's right, she works. She has a teen daughter who also works. However, she buys candy and soda on food stamps. I am in a position where I can see this is happening a lot. There are girls being paid for by the oilfield workers. They keep having babies and keep getting the government dole. I learned in college that welfare abuse is a major problem. I am now seeing it 1st hand. The only thing we can do is crack down on the abuse. It would be cheaper to investigate than to keep paying these people.

It seems like the government likes paying these people to keep them voting and from revolting. Don't worry, they're too lazy to revolt. Even when they have a job, they don't work. I've been cleaning up stores run by these lazy people.

Putting biased unstable private institutions in charge of helping the down trodden is a mistake. The government working with the Catholic church is disgusting. All religion is horrible to me, but mixing government and religion is a nightmare like Sharia law. It's like the government getting involved in sports disputes. Cults have no place in my government.

Just in case you're wondering, I'm a socialist.

reply to post by gentledissident


These people exist, cause no matter how advanced a society is there are gonna be parasites. It's human nature and bad upbringing. However, I refuse to abandon social support totally, because of those hard working people who will suffer the most.

If you take money away from the illegal hustler, they WILL find another way to work the system, but then the honest folk in the same position will suffer the most.

The parasites are always gonna be there, my friend. They exist in every community across the globe, but we must remember that they are the minority. I refuse to punish someone who was laid off due to outsourcing or lack of jobs that are willing to pay a living wage for those parasites.

Besides, there are many, many more ways to cut our spending than to feed off of our own. Don't you agree?

Originally posted by intelligenthoodlum33
However, I refuse to abandon social support totally

I hope that wasn't aimed at me. If so, you didn't read my post carefully

Originally posted by intelligenthoodlum33
If you take money away from the illegal hustler, they WILL find another way to work the system

The parasites are always gonna be there

I realize that these handouts are keeping the thieves out of my living room. That doesn't make them right. A couple of states just got a lot more room in their jails

reply to post by gentledissident


I never gave an excuse to the parasites. If you think I did then you obviously didn't read my post. Check my signature.

Those parasites are a minority and will always be there. We can focus on them or choose to focus on the bigger picture. That's my point. Do you dispute that?

Originally posted by intelligenthoodlum33
I never gave an excuse to the parasites.

OK, but the handouts help keep them out of my house. Rather than to cut them off and then arrest them after a theft, the government should crack down on abuse and arrest them for fraud. There's now a lot of prison space after the votes in Washington and Colorado

Originally posted by intelligenthoodlum33
Those parasites are a minority and will always be there. We can focus on them or choose to focus on the bigger picture. That's my point. Do you dispute that?

My bigger picture is building a technological utopia. I'm not about patching up the many holes in government. I'm about calling a Mulligan on our government.

However, in whatever system we offer, abuse of it or its citizens should always be a crime.

BTW, your signature should be corrected to read, "you're the punchline."

reply to post by gentledissident



Okay, focus on and arrest the abusers. Pay over $50,000 a year to keep them in prison (far more than they could ever scam from welfare) on the taxpayers dime.

What about the crooked politicians that created this situation in the first place? Do you give them a Mulligan too? I don't get your logic, friend.

Bring the jobs back and watch Americans fill them with pride and the essence of what we imagine this country to be about.

reply to post by pierregustavetoutant


I saw this posted elsewhere on ATS but it seems appropriate to this thread:

In Germany (I am born there) we have "democratic socialism". I guess there is also some forms of "democratic socialism" in countries such as Sweden, Norway etc.

Funny, how Germany right now is dominating entire Europe and how wonderful "democratic socialism" works in Norway, Sweden etc. I can tell you, maybe you should visit one day....but prepare for a SHOCK because compared to the hardships in the US and elsewhere, this might look like a surreal Disneyland to you.

And by the way..."democratic socialism"...while having the "oh so hated" name "socialism" in it, is nothing else than capitalism, but with SOME problematic aspects of it addressed and improved.

If you had democratic socialism such as in Norway or Sweden...you would now be the RICHEST, most powerful country on this planet without any of the problems facing America today....

YOUR problem is that you don't see democratic socialism as a chance to improve, but rather as a something negative.

It's true most people in American have no idea what democratic socialism is. The US education system (which fell to 19th in the world since the "Reagan Revolution") is mostly to blame for that as it does a very poor job of teaching anything but the most rudimentary and cursory examination of history, politics and social science/civics.

I as an American who lived in Europe for 3 years learned this pretty clearly.

That is why we are as divided as we are. Ask a person who voted for Romney and they believe that half of the country voted for socialism when in reality Obama is to the RIGHT of Bill Clinton on fiscal issues and Ronald Reagan on issues relating to the poor. No one accused Reagan or Clinton of being a socialist.

A lot of these people pine for the 1950s as some halcyon time when everything was perfect but they have little historical understanding of the 1950s.

It's like a line from the movie The Watchmen - "I'm 67 years old. Every day, the future looks a little bit darker. But the past... even the grimy parts of it... keep on getting brighter. "

The thing is most of these people have no idea that corporations paid far more taxes in 1950, the top 1% did as well and percentage of income going to the government was HIGHER overall in 1950 than it is today yet everyone took home more then than they do now when you adjust for inflation.

No one would ever call Dwight D Eisenhower a socialist would they? Yet he supported many policies today which the far right would call socialism. (ie: The idea that people with more should pay more in taxes.)

So yeah, those Bush tax cuts really put more in our pocket didn't they? If you aren't in the top 1% of the country then the answer is no, not really and study after study proves this.

Also compared to productivity the US is far more productive today than it was in 1950 however income has not at all kept pace with it. Who is to blame for that? Socialists? Hardly. The trend of income being closely related to productivity really changed during the 1980s. Had they not then the average American would make $90,000 a year today rather than $50,000.

There is also this lie that in "socialist countries" (presumably like Denmark, Norway and Germany) people have no incentive to move up. Meanwhile class mobility is actually higher in those countries than it is in the USA today. Clearly democratic socialism doesn't deter anyone from moving up, rather it provides more OPPORTUNITY for those who were not born into the means to move up to do so.

Whenever someone misuses the word socialism to describe centrist or center left politics in this country I just laugh at how ignorant they really are.

Another interesting thing about the 1950s: Even though the US was locked in a Cold War with the Soviet Union (which could have turned hot at any time) people who really WERE socialists actually ran for and in some cases won offices and people who were center-right and center-left worked TOGETHER in Congress for the good of the country.

Now it seems there is no center-right. The Tea Party being co-opted by racists, homophobes and bible thumpers saw that anyone who was Republican center-right was "the enemy". Anyone willing to work with a US president who was Republican just had to be voted out of power according to their purity test so now the Republicans (the entire party) are left wondering how they will ever win in a country that is increasingly ethnically diverse and where women and LGBT people vote for people who don't demonize them.

One party drifted into the extreme of their side, the one that won drifted to the center.

America is not right or left. Libertarian or Socialist. It is both and all of the above. America tends to drift to the center and this election was just further proof of that.

Originally posted by intelligenthoodlum33
Do you give them a Mulligan too? I don't get your logic, friend.

You're looking at what I said wrong. I mean it as a do over. Trash the whole thing and start over.

Also, it's a term used by jazz musicians in the past. I assume you know the story of prohibition and how it involved jazz musicians. No, I'm not talking about alcohol.

Originally posted by intelligenthoodlum33
Bring the jobs back and watch Americans fill them with pride and the essence of what we imagine this country to be about.

Sure, guaranteed, meaningful, high paying, and part time jobs would be nice. However, I'm not sure what this feeling called pride is. I'm guessing that if I had anything to do with building a socialist technological utopia, I might know.

BTW, I think the title should be, "The poor are not your enemy." Are you speaking of one poor person or poor people?

reply to post by JadeX


Wow! You saw that post too!

Politicians, along with the media's, help have demonized the one form of government could could actually work in this country where consumerism is so prevelant.

However, the easily misled, vocal public, will fight it tooth and nail. I just don't get it. What happened to research and fair judgement among us 'regular folk'?

The brainwashed refuse to admit that they have been misled. They just keep on dividing and conquering themselves. I feel shame for how my great grand-children will view us. A bunch of technological primates.

reply to post by gentledissident


We may not be as different as you think. I also believe in true Socialism.

As for the typo in my title, I was so concerned with editing my OP that I let one slip with the title. It's a mistake and I am sure you know it. Unfortunately, I only had a few hours to correct it and I didn't notice it until later.

However, I am glad that some people still can recognize such faux pas. Thanks for pointing it out.

Originally posted by intelligenthoodlum33
We may not be as different as you think.

No, I don't think we're very different. We're just discussing how to bring about peace.

I know jail is expensive, but like I said, we just lost a lot of inmates to make up for a crack down

Jails are needed, but I don't like the way they're run. They're about punishment. They should be about rehabilitation. It should be caring instead of intimidating.

Abuse begets abuse. Some people are born with a disposition towards crime. Loving mental help should be available to all who seek it.

By crime, I mean harming or taking from others. Victimless crime is a stupid concept.

Originally posted by intelligenthoodlum33
reply to post by JadeX

 

Wow! You saw that post too!

Politicians, along with the media's, help have demonized the one form of government could could actually work in this country where consumerism is so prevelant.

However, the easily misled, vocal public, will fight it tooth and nail. I just don't get it. What happened to research and fair judgement among us 'regular folk'?

The brainwashed refuse to admit that they have been misled. They just keep on dividing and conquering themselves. I feel shame for how my great grand-children will view us. A bunch of technological primates.

I believe education really is the answer. But for that to happen people have to accept that we live in a -highly- politicized environment which is very counter to the more level-headedness the US has traditionally been known for.

You can't have parents saying "don't teach my kids about socialism, or evolution, or climatology, or genetics" and still end up with a well educated, well rounded population that is well informed on the political spectrum and where a candidate actually fits on it.