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posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:39 AM
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Originally posted by Bilky


I am perfectly calm, and this is not an opportunity for me to vent on random britts. But brittain needs to acknowledge its past and understand that they have acted immorally and un ethically. I as an white male Australian have had to deal with the predjudice and national guilt that has come as a result of the brittish shenanigans in our country. They came, they saw, and they left many problems. Ok lets just pretend that it never happened. That way your national pride can be left untarnished, and we can pretend that brittain is the very essence of just cause.

edit on 6-11-2012 by Bilky because: (no reason given)


Bilk mate, britain knows and so does every conquesting culture you don't need to get people
to realize the circumstances back then. However you must understand that no major country
is devoid of some shenanigans as you say...




posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:51 AM
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Originally posted by Bilky
RULE BRITANNIA.

F##K BRITANNIA

.They created a slave class in Australia by convicting poverty stricken people for stealing bread. Oh well at least they built their infrastructure with it, as far as buildings and bridges went.


You forget the spanish where they slaughtered milions and more or less wiped out a race or two..
sir/mam.....

Peace



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:54 AM
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Originally posted by denver22

Originally posted by Bilky


I am perfectly calm, and this is not an opportunity for me to vent on random britts. But brittain needs to acknowledge its past and understand that they have acted immorally and un ethically. I as an white male Australian have had to deal with the predjudice and national guilt that has come as a result of the brittish shenanigans in our country. They came, they saw, and they left many problems. Ok lets just pretend that it never happened. That way your national pride can be left untarnished, and we can pretend that brittain is the very essence of just cause.

edit on 6-11-2012 by Bilky because: (no reason given)


Bilk mate, britain knows and so does every conquesting culture you don't need to get people
to realize the circumstances back then. However you must understand that no major country
is devoid of some shenanigans as you say...



How do you know that they know? Maybe they do know but do they realize? If they did would they persue their current geo policy? A conquesting culture by current definition cannot realise because then they would have to admit that they destroy in order to create their order. In my opinion there is a big difference. Thank god that Australia has a social conscience, we have said sorry for something that early australians commited IE Brittish, and we engage climate policy with our carbon tax. I am proud to be an Australian and would very much like to distance myself from Brittain not because of a reluctance to admit my roots but because Brittain has its hands covered in the blood of others who have had the misfortune to come under the British radar.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 01:55 AM
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reply to post by chishuppu
 


well, ok

look at WW2

Germany was going to be a tribute state. They didn't like that arrangement, and so a war for whatever reason was started. Everything else was a consequence of looking for a submissive tributary state. In the end it was Asia, last man standing, like WW1, and so made to pay the bill. That is why all the wars fought after like Korea and Vietnam were fought. To keep that area of influence. They were our markets, but really our colony.

Europe was just as interested in keeping Asia as subject states, respectively. The east, along with what was the USSR, wanted the same tribute. It had its satellites, but it wanted to starve the US. Ultimately we kept enough tributary states where we starved the soviets out.

This is simple. We need someone, externally to pay tribute, or we have to look to our own people and make classes.

The reason why our states are clamping down on us now is because they are losing control over our former tributaries. Not OUR markets anymore. So we need to eliminate the middle class made from conquest, and shrink it so the lower class pays tribute. Or else no one can have WEALTH.

Another reason why war is so profitable, not due only to production and sale of arms and war services, but to the tribute set up after.

The ME is not panning out, really. SO we need to look to our own people. If you have such a guilty conscience, then I say work crazy hours for little pay and have your empire exploit you, or else it needs to exploit a foreigner.

do the math. If not everyone is producing, then someone needs to pick up their slack. Leisure is not free. Having time to educate yourself, vacation, hour limits on work, ect. These things mean someone else will produce for the people NOT directly making food, shelter, and everything else. (Cant keep the elderly around then)Not to mention a modern CIVILIZATION needs all sorts of social programs that someone must pay for. If not everyone is producing then someone else needs to not only keep the empire alive, but give to those programs and social services.

Tribute, by them or us, Choose.


I would respect either choice, as they are inevitable.

edit on 6-11-2012 by manykapao because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 02:04 AM
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Take the boxer rebellion in china. The british had textiles and other products but the chinese had silks and many other superior items. The solution? Sell opium to the chinese and get them addicted, modern day mass drug dealing. When the chinese wanted to get rid of this problem THE BRITISH FOUGHT THEM TO SECURE THE RIGHT TO SELL DRUGS TO THEM.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 02:08 AM
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Originally posted by Bilky
Take the boxer rebellion in china. The british had textiles and other products but the chinese had silks and many other superior items. The solution? Sell opium to the chinese and get them addicted, modern day mass drug dealing. When the chinese wanted to get rid of this problem THE BRITISH FOUGHT THEM TO SECURE THE RIGHT TO SELL DRUGS TO THEM.


What about the spanish conquistidors my aussie freind? you did not answer my question..
edit on 6-11-2012 by denver22 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 02:12 AM
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Originally posted by denver22

Originally posted by Bilky
Take the boxer rebellion in china. The british had textiles and other products but the chinese had silks and many other superior items. The solution? Sell opium to the chinese and get them addicted, modern day mass drug dealing. When the chinese wanted to get rid of this problem THE BRITISH FOUGHT THEM TO SECURE THE RIGHT TO SELL DRUGS TO THEM.


What about the spanish conquistidors my aussie freind?


Yeah the brits and the spanish should get together and swap conquest stories. maybe when one has a problem with a dissenting populace they could throw ideas back and forth on how to kill them and take their wealth.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 02:15 AM
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Originally posted by Bilky

Originally posted by denver22

Originally posted by Bilky
Take the boxer rebellion in china. The british had textiles and other products but the chinese had silks and many other superior items. The solution? Sell opium to the chinese and get them addicted, modern day mass drug dealing. When the chinese wanted to get rid of this problem THE BRITISH FOUGHT THEM TO SECURE THE RIGHT TO SELL DRUGS TO THEM.


What about the spanish conquistidors my aussie freind?


Yeah the brits and the spanish should get together and swap conquest stories. maybe when one has a problem with a dissenting populace they could throw ideas back and forth on how to kill them and take their wealth.


That be you included since you have them roots then sir/mam? unless you are aboriginie?..
"Considering we in this generation are not responsible' and these rulers are long gone then
what's your point sir/mam
.....

edit on 6-11-2012 by denver22 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 02:27 AM
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I have some questions I will answer myself, though if you have an alternative answer to them, please do.

How do you support an entire class of people dedicated to learning?

Scientists, scholars, "enlightened", how? If they are not producing food, wealth. How do you keep them thinking of ways to advance society?

Someone must pick up their slack.

Another question.

How do you keep people who no longer produce out of old age, or disability eating, sheltered, and everything else? who picks up their tab?

Another,

How do you keep people entertaining, being artistic, creating things that serve no practical purpose of food and shelter? How can we afford them?

Everything I described are attributes of "civilized" society. A human construct. Nature does not make cities, it does not produce packs of humans that by their nature build shelter and breed their food around them to keep it close.

It makes animals run, and us run after them. It doesn't grow orchards, it scatters fruit and vegetables around dense forests for us and other ANIMALS to search and find.

If you don't have an external tribute, a collection of food, (resources) in herds, orchards, you don't have basic civilization.

Complex civilization can't rely on raids like it started out doing to form itself. You need complex areas of tribute. Herd the wealth, grow it together, or else complex civilization cannot exist.

It is a cold hard truth, but to have all the niceties of our civilization, we need conquest and tribute.

always been this way. If you look to the progress of written history, it has no time of peace.

When we started acting civilized, we made the barbaric. needed to. A "savage" is more civilized because his existence does not require conflict. Ours does.

Trouble is a savage doesn't have complex science, art, writing, medicine, exploration, thought. Maybe to some degree and surprisingly so in some cases, but a "savage" society, wild, concerns itself with food and shelter. Little else and would not risk those things in the name of "thought".

Civilization made the barbaric, remember that.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 02:28 AM
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Originally posted by denver22

Originally posted by Bilky

Originally posted by denver22

Originally posted by Bilky
Take the boxer rebellion in china. The british had textiles and other products but the chinese had silks and many other superior items. The solution? Sell opium to the chinese and get them addicted, modern day mass drug dealing. When the chinese wanted to get rid of this problem THE BRITISH FOUGHT THEM TO SECURE THE RIGHT TO SELL DRUGS TO THEM.


What about the spanish conquistidors my aussie freind?


Yeah the brits and the spanish should get together and swap conquest stories. maybe when one has a problem with a dissenting populace they could throw ideas back and forth on how to kill them and take their wealth.




That be you included since you have them roots then sir/mam? unless you are aboriginie?..
"Considering we in this generation are not responsible' and these rulers are long gone then
what's your point sir


And its brit not britts sir/mam..
edit on 6-11-2012 by denver22 because: (no reason given)


I appologize for the misspelling. Yes as an australian I have root connection to these attrocities but as an independant nation for so many years thank god I can legitimately distance myself from it. I am an Aussie and did not deal drugs to china or invade and subjugate India or afganistan or america{ha tried to] . But if spelling problems are all you can refer to then I must say sir that I rest my case. et al.



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 02:32 AM
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Originally posted by Bilky

. I am an Aussie and did not deal drugs to china or invade and subjugate India or afganistan or america{ha tried to] .


Neither did i sir. You do know that australian troops are in afghanistan don't you
?...
edit on 6-11-2012 by denver22 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 02:33 AM
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Still chuckling about this to myself how people get all bent out of shape about a topic that all English treat as common knowledge.

And for them hateing about our power, Just rember who dragged all these places out of the dark ages and created stable Country's out of you. Then in the vast amount of cases gave you back your Independence.


God, who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet,
God, who made thee mighty, make thee mightier yet.



Side note to denver22 sorry but im not allowed to send PM's yet
edit on 6-11-2012 by Madcotto because: (no reason given)
edit on 6-11-2012 by Madcotto because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 03:08 AM
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Originally posted by Madcotto
Still chuckling about this to myself how people get all bent out of shape about a topic that all English treat as common knowledge.

And for them hateing about our power, Just rember who dragged all these places out of the dark ages and created stable Country's out of you. Then in the vast amount of cases gave you back your Independence.


This is very true, we gave alot to these countries they beneifited in the long run with the technology
etc and our language. Look at you all now all grown up and doing the town so to speak..

Brothers/sisters p.s let's not forget macedonia right?...
Romans/ spanish/...etc.. stalin/hitler..

No offence intended to anyone but this is true..


edit on 6-11-2012 by denver22 because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 03:44 AM
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Alot of countries benefited from the british hey just look at the entertainment industry ..
How many new that arnold swarzenegger trained in portsmouth too england?



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 04:13 AM
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Oh yeah. Forgot that place existed. Kinda insignificant these days, huh?
I'm only kidding. Was going to make a joke about Blair having Bush tattooed on his butt, however, I think it's best not to go there.

So what? Why do people look back at history and try to shake a finger in shame at the descendants? If anything, it should teach people that history does in fact repeat itself and that man has the basic instinct to fall in to a lust for power and greed. All those years of men, and even women, acting on greed and lust for power just shows us that it's something that has been around since the dawn of time.

You CANNOT punish the child for the sins of the father, so to say. It's just wrong. If anything, as an outsider with no ties to the country even in ancestry, that kind of history is something to be proud of. GB had once damn near ruled the world. If it wasn't for natives fighting back and an overwhelming addiction to tea, they could have easily accomplished that feat. Hey, as an American all we got is.... Um, well, we got some stuff that happened. I think. Youngest world super power? Would have to have someone else figure it out as I'm so hyped on American patriotism I could say we'll forever be remembered as the country that made GB their cabin boy. And again, I'm kidding. I like to playfully insult other countries because I know how terrible mine can be. Makes for some funny exchanges.
edit on 11/6/12 by Echo3Foxtrot because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 04:37 AM
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Originally posted by Sinny

Originally posted by Sublimecraft
reply to post by loam
 


LOL - Not too smart either.

And just to add insult to injury.........they sent their naughty "convicts" to paradise.

Good one fellas


(Plus they can't hold their drink either - bloody lightweights - hehehe)

ETA: Except Sinny - she is exempt from bagging of the poms
edit on 5-11-2012 by Sublimecraft because: Sinny's disclaimer


Bazinga!


Good day mate!

Although to be a spoil sport - The drinkings in my Irish blood aha.
edit on 5-11-2012 by Sinny because: (no reason given)


Wow, you've changed your av again! (yes, I've been watching it, as I do with all interesting avs) I must say, you're as pretty in the flesh as in pen and ink... (my cyber crush EXPOSED! LOL) Lucky bloke next to you...

OB on-topic:I would have guessed Israel, but hey, they're a product of the Balfour declaration, right? Apple, tree!



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 05:07 AM
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A suitable quote for this thread from GK Chesterton..


The Rolling English Road..

Before the Roman came to Rye or out to Severn strode,
The rolling English drunkard made the rolling English road.
A reeling road, a rolling road, that rambles round the shire,
And after him the parson ran, the sexton and the squire;
A merry road, a mazy road, and such as we did tread
The night we went to Birmingham by way of Beachy Head.

I knew no harm of Bonaparte and plenty of the Squire,
And for to fight the Frenchman I did not much desire;
But I did bash their baggonets because they came arrayed
To straighten out the crooked road an English drunkard made,
Where you and I went down the lane with ale-mugs in our hands,
The night we went to Glastonbury by way of Goodwin Sands.

His sins they were forgiven him; or why do flowers run
Behind him; and the hedges all strengthening in the sun?
The wild thing went from left to right and knew not which was which,
But the wild rose was above him when they found him in the ditch.
God pardon us, nor harden us; we did not see so clear
The night we went to Bannockburn by way of Brighton Pier.

My friends, we will not go again or ape an ancient rage,
Or stretch the folly of our youth to be the shame of age,

But walk with clearer eyes and ears this path that wandereth,
And see undrugged in evening light the decent inn of death;
For there is good news yet to hear and fine things to be seen,
Before we go to Paradise by way of Kensal Green.


Edit to add Maddy Prior singing the Rolling English Road.

edit on 6/11/12 by thoughtsfull because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 05:11 AM
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Originally posted by tpg47
Yeah , us Brits know how to kick ass


So did the Romans and look how that turned out for them!



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 05:12 AM
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reply to post by loam
 


I'm well aware the the British invaded and/or colonized many countries, but that map is overstating the case. For example, when did Birtain invade Mexico, Finland, Sweden, Hungry, Romania or Bulgaria? Also don't think most of South America was invaded by Perfidious Albion. Also, it never invaded Portugal but came to Its aid during the Napoleonic wars. And when did it invade Japan or the Philippines? Seriously, that map is bogus.

I'd just add that as far as aggressive nations go, Rome, the Mongolian Empire, Macedonia under Alexander the Great, and Nazi Germany and Imperial Japan during WWII were highly aggressive nations that conquered a lot and did it in a more violent and destructive fashion than did the British.
edit on 6-11-2012 by MrInquisitive because: (no reason given)


And it's fine to cite Britain/the British Empire and a big invader/colonizer of Its time, but that's history. WHO'S DOING IT NOW is what matters -- and the answer to that goes with out saying, but I'll say it just the same: USA!, USA!, USA! WE'RE #1 in invading and meddling in countries since WWII! OORAH! Onward Christian soldiers!
edit on 6-11-2012 by MrInquisitive because: (no reason given)



posted on Nov, 6 2012 @ 05:31 AM
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Dunno how one can interpret the coloniation of Australia (and the like) an "invasion". I mean, it's not like nomadic tribes who had no unified culture or language (Aussie aborigines) could be considered true custodians of the land; despite being ceremoniously referred to as such today.





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